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A Song of Ice and Fire
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A Song of Ice and Fire Read-Along
Steven wrote: "I was wondering if the red priests we come across in chapter three about Daenerys are from the same religious sect that we see much later with Melisandre. If so, I think I will pay closer attention."They definitely are! I noted that this time around too. I was like, holy cow, that was hinted this early? It's the first time we ever see Essos!
It is almost erie how George R.R. Martin does this time and again. So glad I am re-reading this.
Sh*t! I have never spotted tbat! Starting after all you is helping me, 😅, i will miss less!
I liked Tyrion because he has no special strength or magic powers, just his wits. There is one scene where he is all alone dealing with a literal "cliffhanger" and shortly afterwards he is leading an army! I actually liked that there wasn't that much magic in the series, and the magic parts (dragons, sorcery, etc.) weren't the most interesting to me.
I would enjoy reading this with you but I have decided not to reread this until/if the saga gets finished. I have too many other things I want to read.
Robin P wrote: "I liked Tyrion because he has no special strength or magic powers, just his wits. There is one scene where he is all alone dealing with a literal "cliffhanger" and shortly afterwards he is leading ..."Robin - I too liked that it didn't overwhelm with magic, making that the center of the story.
Feel free to drop in on the discussion even if not currently rereading. I haven't even started to read and am already spesking up! 🤣
Robin P wrote: "I actually liked that there wasn't that much magic in the series, and the magic parts (dragons, sorcery, etc.) wasn't the most interesting to me."I love that this series is a pretty "low magic" setting also. "High magic" is fine in something like a video or tabletop game because at least then I'm personally involved and can use it to solve problems. Often when I am simply reading about it in a book, having magic everywhere tends to make everything seem very easy for the characters and I get bored. That is definitely avoided in this series!
I really like GRRM's approach to magic in general. It feels very reminiscent of HP Lovecraft – there are cosmic forces beyond our control and messing with them is often a bad idea. There are some very clear Lovecraft parallels in the series (and especially in the supplementary books like A World of Ice and Fire) and I have found it the most compelling way to deal with the concept of magic in fantasy fiction thus far.
Sounds like you read A world of F&I Heather. I picked it up this summer but just could not get attached to it. It was probably my mood and the awful slump I was in . I bet I will like it once we get through this re-read.
Joanne wrote: "Sounds like you read A world of F&I Heather. I picked it up this summer but just could not get attached to it. It was probably my mood and the awful slump I was in . I bet I will like it once we ge..."I did! I loved it, but granted it is sort of an acquired taste. You have to like reading straight history books, and want to read them about places that don't exist to boot. That is my very specific level of nerdery, however... I still have Fire & Blood on my TBR, too. Give me that Targaryen history!
The art is SO beautiful in A World of Ice and Fire, though! I think it's worth having just as a coffee table piece.
Where is the thread with the timetable for the chapters? @ Theresa, maybe you could copy and paste it into the first conversation box, so it is easy to find?
Joanne wrote: "Where is the thread with the timetable for the chapters? @ Theresa, maybe you could copy and paste it into the first conversation box, so it is easy to find?"Done. At beginning of first post. I will update that link as we move through the books.
I have started my re-read, with attention. All I can say is WOW! So MUCH laid out in these first chapters!I mean, isn't that the Night King we meet in the Prologue?
FYI the finding of the dire-wolf pups is end of first chapter 'Bran'.
Even the order and perspective of the chapters is anything but casual.
Theresa wrote: "I mean, isn't that the Night King we meet in the Prologue?"omg, IS IT??? If I recall, the series doesn't really name the Night King the way the show does. There's the legend of the Night's King, (commander of the Night's Watch who fell in love with an Other and had an unholy alliance) but that's pretty much just lore at the moment. I did note in the prologue the Other fighting Royce has some special weapon that shatters his steel, but in the books, I can never be sure if the Others we see are just random or have some sort of prevailing hierarchy the way the show portrays... That would be a hell of a twist though!
Something I did notice very early on this time is (BIG SERIES SPOILER ALERT)(view spoiler)
Definitely is the Night King. I’m loving being able to spot things like this - first read was an unfolding mystery and a great adventure, but now I know what’s coming, I can see the richness and cleverness of the story much better
@KateNZ - that's just what I was thinking! It is a testament to GRRM the writer.@Heather - remember due to the incompleteness of the books we have not achieved the level of knowlege FROM THE BOOKS that we would normally have from reading the entire series vs. knowledge from series adaptation that was completed without the remaining books.
All that to say....we have not actually been introduced yet to The Night King as leader through ADWD as I recall - that has still to be read in the books yet to be published.
(view spoiler) That is something we do learn for sure.
On Heather's spoiler - GRRM has said repeatedly that you the reader need to be discerning to piece together what is true. GRRM has always said that he uses the different viewpoints to tell what a character knows and thinks s/he knows or believes. Also some characters twist or spin to fit the narrative that character need for one reason or another. So consider that in light of your spoiler, Heather. MAJOR(view spoiler)
BTW I predict that the 2 remaining volumes of the series will each be about 1200 pages, between the main plot lines that were adapted into the series and all the subsidiary plots not adapted. There will be a lot of ground covered by those books.One question: how much the adaptation stickes to GRRM's planned final 2 volumes. He was consulting.
@Theresa - (view spoiler) I see Robert as a tragic character in general. He is a perfect embodiment of the idea of "won the war, lost the peace." And I have such a soft spot for his and Ned's friendship. 🥺
Heather Reads Books wrote: "@Theresa - [spoilers removed] I see Robert as a tragic character in general. He is a perfect embodiment of the idea of "won the war, lost the peace." And I have such a soft spot for his and Ned's..."
He is one of the many tragic figures here.
Also, the truth one spins often becomes the truth one believes.
One big advantage to reading it slowly like this is that it is easy to go back and look at passages as we discuss, and still know where it falls in the tale telling.
As with "won the war, lost the peace," Robert is an exemplar of it is lonely at the top.I just found out why Arya's sword is called, "Needle." Perfectly done, Jon Snow.
Steven wrote: "As with "won the war, lost the peace," Robert is an exemplar of it is lonely at the top.So true. I just got to the chapter where he and Ned go riding. There's so much pining from Robert about wanting to be free from the responsibilities of his office – as if he never once thought about what came after victory. (view spoiler)
I love the realpolitik in these books so much! I've tried to read other modern fantasy books recently and so many of them feel like they pay lip service to some very basic present day "liberal democracy" sentiments in a way that feels boring and artificial to me. ASOIAF is so uninterested in that, and cares more about raw power and the machinations to obtain it, and I really appreciate that.
GRRM always says he wrote this as the type of book he wanted to read.Your comment about not thinking about ruling reminds me of Robert Redford's final line of the excellent movie The Candidate, after winning the election: "So now what?" And he is met with silence.
Theresa wrote: "Your comment about not thinking about ruling reminds me of Robert Redford's final line of the excellent movie The Candidate, after winning the election: "So now what?" And he is met with silence."And one of my favorite lines from Hamilton: "Winning was easy, young man. Governing's harder."
Totally agree with the your take on Robert during that ride. Ned, having to leave Winterfell and not wanting to, makes me like him all the more.
I just reached the first Dany chapter. The red priests! So did not remember their turning up so early.
Steven wrote: "Wondering about the crow in Bran’s vision. [spoilers removed]"I'm sure it is, Steven. I'd forgotten this came in so early.
KateNZ wrote: "Steven wrote: "Wondering about the crow in Bran’s vision. [spoilers removed]"I'm sure it is, Steven. I'd forgotten this came in so early."
I agree. I do remember it coming in so early. I now think that Bran's propensity for climbing fearlessly to high places was a hint to his future, a metaphor for his minds ability to move freely in time.
Steven wrote: "Wondering about the crow in Bran’s vision. [spoilers removed]"Exactly Steven!
Let me confess that I own multiple copies of some volumes of ASOIF, and 2 full sets plus a 3rd in the works: autographed 1st edition hardcovers, ebook set, and the 3 illustrated versions published so far. A paperback set for me to abbotate is finding its way to me piecemeal. I clearly am not much of a fan [cue sarcasm font].
That said, I decided to dip into the illustrated GOT given it lives on one of my nightstands. This caught my eye in John Hodgman's short forward:
"...the depth not only of its history but the complex ways that history is remembered and misremembered on purpose..."
Fits right in with discussion Becky I believe started above.
Theresa wrote: "...the depth not only of its history but the complex ways that history is remembered and misremembered on purpose..."Yes! that's it exactly! I love that so much. I really need to keep it in mind for my own writing – it's incredibly true to history and how it is recorded.
How is everyone's reading? Reminder that our GOT Part 1 full discussion starts Jan 24. I propose no spoiler tags need be used for the Part 1 discussion once started. There is a link in the first post to the pages to be read.I already have several discussion points, and I am only through Bran's fall! The foundation being set is just awe-inspiring. A couple from the Bran II chapter...the conversation he overhears.....and note a name in the list of the great of the Kingsguard Bran runs through.
Heather Reads Books wrote: "Theresa wrote: "...the depth not only of its history but the complex ways that history is remembered and misremembered on purpose..."Yes! that's it exactly! I love that so much. I really need to ..."
It is even true to our personal lives. Couple that with how witnesses never have the exact same account of an event...
Theresa wrote: "How is everyone's reading? Reminder that our GOT Part 1 full discussion starts Jan 24. I propose no spoiler tags need be used for the Part 1 discussion once started. There is a link in the first po..."I'm a little more than halfway through our assigned pages for January and I have a TON of notes. I'll have to try to condense them for the discussion, because I'm worried I got carried away. Maybe it just looks longer in my Notes app on my iPhone... 😬
I finished the January block a few days ago. I’m not much of a note taker or analyser as I go along (I’ve never been a member of any IRL book club so I don’t know how it works, lol!) but I’m looking forward to the discussion
I am moving along probably too quick and may need to slow down. The story is just plainly so darn good it is hard to stop. Interesting thoughts on history, remembering, and misremembering. The perspective of who writes the history, and why, is always an important consideration.
I will finish this weekend. As Steven says, it is so good, it is hard to slow down! Since this is my third time reading, the urgency to know 'what comes next' is absent, replaced by a mining for nuggets.@Kate - I am In 1 IRL book club and all discussion is at the monthly meeting. Here we also have a rambling conversation as each discovers nuggets to share, or a quote like the one I shared earlier. Or links to side info that illuminates. That only happens in my IRL book club with a close friend who is in it.
I have added the links Heather had put up for us in the first comment. Now at the beginning of the comment you will find links:Reading Schedule
Upcoming Discussion Date
Chapter Guide & Numbering
Map
Westeros Wiki
Only on page 177 and already Martin has ripped my heart out so many times I stopped counting. I can count on one hand how many times I have re-read a book/series. I had my doubts about re-reading this one. I am glad I decided to plow through it.
What a fricking unbelievable writer this man is!
Joanne wrote: "What a fricking unbelievable writer this man is!"RIGHT? He's SO GOOD. I did not fully appreciate it the first time while trying to rush through the books to "catch up" with the show. That was totally the wrong approach, I've realized. There's sooo much here you really need to soak in.
I fully understand why it takes a decade for him to finish a book. The care taken to the plot and the attention to detail in the world is INSANE.
Heather Reads Books wrote: "Joanne wrote: "What a fricking unbelievable writer this man is!"RIGHT? He's SO GOOD. I did not fully appreciate it the first time while trying to rush through the books to "catch up" with the sho..."
Great writing takes time. It takes a lot of time.
The execution of a direwolf has me a mess of tears etc. Even though I knew it was coming! Damn you GRRM! Did you have to be THAT good a writer?! Time to take a break.
Theresa wrote: "The execution of a direwolf has me a mess of tears etc. Even though I knew it was coming! Damn you GRRM! Did you have to be THAT good a writer?! Time to take a break."
Ooof, yeah, I totally forgot (view spoiler) What a perfect microcosm of who gets "justice" in Westeros.
(Not to mention poor Mycah!!!)
I added a link to an historic timeline for those who have previously read the books or seen the series.Note that it is fan created and at the fan website asoiaf.westeros.org. Even GRRM himself has suggested this fan website to be one of the best for the series. It is not affiliated with GRRM, but one does wonder if it is helpful as a resource as he writes. 😅
you have taken me down a long dark rabbit hole there Theresa-If I don't come up for air before this afternoon, come dig me out🐰
Joanne wrote: "you have taken me down a long dark rabbit hole there Theresa-If I don't come up for air before this afternoon, come dig me out🐰"😁. The weather outside is frightful....cozy rabbit hole is the place to be!
Miserable here too, though we only caught the edges of that storm that hit you. I came out of the hole with a hankering for chocolate chip cookies, and so I made some. 😂-
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I was wondering if the red priests we come across in chapter three about Daenerys are from..."
Oh cripes Stephen, I missed that, again! I will have to go back and re-read that section.