The Seasonal Reading Challenge discussion
WINTER CHALLENGE 2021
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Group Reads Discussion - Nomadland
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4.0/5.0 - Before I retired, my husband and I toyed with the idea of being Rvers, and workampers. We went as far as to buy a 5th wheel and pickup truck, but ended up selling them a year later. Shortly after I retired, COVID hit, and any plans like that fell by the wayside. Reading this book, and finding out what life is like for many of the people who work those kinds of jobs gave me pause, made me so grateful that we had that choice. It's hard to imagine feeling forced to live a nomadic life, with no financial cushion for emergencies, and day to day expenses having to be so carefully budgeted. It is frightening, to say the least. This is a book that will stay with me for a long time.
I have to admit that I had no idea that the U.S. economic situation has gotten so bad that instead of enjoying their retirement, many seniors have had to choose between paying the rent and putting food on the table, and are thus forced to accept the nomadic lifestyle. It makes me wonder if a similar thing is happening here in Canada. I was amazed at how upbeat and optimistic the workampers were. After all, their employers exploited them horribly. For example, working as park hosts, two of them routinely had to work overtime, for which they were not paid. I can imagine what a backbreaking job picking sugar beets must be.
The one thing that really struck me was the working conditions at Amazon. Recently, I have been seeing an Amazon commercial featuring a young man who recently started working for Amazon. He weny on about how much he loved working at Amazon and that the supervisors are great, and have given him numerous promotions (as he is saying this, a female supervisor shows him her 1000 megawatt smile). However, reality is very much different. One of the workampers was unable to work for Amazon as she had planned because she had not sufficiently recovered from her previous employment there.
You're tight Kim, the thought of this happening is very frightening. Hopefully, I will be able to avoid it.
5/5
Andy P.This is the only one of the group reads that I hadn't read so I thought I'd try it. I can easily understand how people could become a twenty-first century nomad considering how quickly prices have risen and many salaried people have not been graced with a matching salary increase, but the less than wealthy survived the Great Depression under similar circumstances. When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's I was taught by my parents that I couldn't buy anything on credit that I didn't already have the money to pay for. I was also taught that if I had extra money, I should save it for unexpected necessities. Perhaps that is a much more difficult method for staying afloat these days, and I can see the allure of the camper home for keeping taxes at a minimum, but I having seen both my children gainfully employed I think it can still be done. I do admire the older people who are forced to take low wage jobs just to stay alive, especially in light of reading about folks who lost their jobs during the pandemic and choose to remain unemployed at government expense. There is something wrong with that scenario.
Mod
I thought this was a very interesting book. I did wonder how things might have changed since 2009- have more young people and young families stymied by the cost of housing done the same?
I was struck by the friendships formed within the community. There was a sense of adventure, resilience, and even humor.
But how sad that one must "survive" America.
I've been wanting to read this one for a while as I have a number of nomadic friends. Unlike the people in this book, however, all the people I know chose the life they're living. Most of them are deliriously happy with their choices. The few who had dreamed about going cruising (in a boat) or roaming (in an RV) and found that it's not for them, were at least happy to have given it a go. Now they know and they've happily settled back down to a fixed, land-based life. None of the people I know are rolling in money, but all of them have (or had) sold most, if not all, of their material goods (cars, houses, furniture, everything). Those proceeds and a few odd jobs here and there keep their their cruising kitties full enough. They are also incredibly frugal. Nothing is thrown away unless it is just impossible to fix and they are very good about not wasting anything. They also barter like fiends. To them, unlike the people in Bruder's book, this is more a point of pride than absolute necessity. It allows them to live their chosen lifestyle longer.
I know one couple who love to be camp/park hosts. They aren't usually paid but they do get their campsite for free. They like it because they get to meet all the other campers (without seeming nosy, which they are! LOL). Others will stop for awhile and work, usually seasonal work like retail sales around Christmas or picking apples in the fall. I don't know anyone who has worked for Amazon. CamperForce sounds incredibly exploitive to me.
It was sad, to me, to hear about people being forced into a nomadic lifestyle. No one should be forced into it. It's not as easy as van-life YouTubers make it out to be. If you've dreamed of doing it all your life like my friends have (and you have enough money to deal with it) the bumps in the road are just that - bumps, part of the package. That's a whole different thing than living in a van or RV because you have nowhere else to go. Having no financial cushion, no matter how or where you live, would be horribly frightening, I think.
Mod
And, when you get older? If you get laid off and you're in, say, your fifties, good luck finding a job. And even older? And not healthy? Or able to work the crappy work at amazon? And what happens when a medical emergency arises?
The people in this book were clearly trying to make the best of their situations, and I admire them for that. But I also worry about what happens when their luck runs out, in terms of health and emergencies. It's a damn shame that things should be this way.
Laurah30I decided to read this book as it was the one book that appealed to me this time round. I would like to see the movie after reading this book
I really was unaware of the plight of older Americans squeezed out by the economic melt down. I watched my investments get rocked during that time but because they were locked in and I wasn't dependent on them for income, (my retirement was a long way off), I could wait it out until the market eventually recovered. I was also fortunate to have a really good pension to rely on as well. Something that seems to be unheard of today.
That being said, I have helped my parents who didn't have any real substantive assets as they went into retirement. I reflect on this now, in light of reading this book, and it is sad when people don't have the family network or financial resources to help during hard times. I do get the idea of personal pride and not wanting to burden others but i always think of the things my parents did for me. I don't regret the decisions i made to support them. I understand that my siblings weren't in the same position as I was. but they did help in different ways.
So this book really made me think about poverty, the recession, the divide between the haves and the have-nots ... and who we notice.
I learned so much from this book that I did not know, or never had given any thought, about a whole modern-day culture of migrant workers who live in their vans, trailers, or cars and go from one seasonal minimum-wage job to another, always on the brink of financial disaster. Some have chosen this lifestyle, with the ideal of living simply, minimally, adventurously; but it seems the majority end up there due to financial necessity, and a shockingly large percentage of them are of retiree age and unable to live on whatever their inadequate incomes are in this period of their lives. I had never heard of Amazon’s “CamperForce.” Now I know. I will never order during holiday season again without thinking of this whole system of seasonal workers.
i'm about 1/3 of the way through this and i'm angry/upset that our society lacks such a social infrastructure that people have to do this - that we can afford to bail out banks and airline companies but not individual people in need...I just ahhhh. I'd heard about how companies had transitioned away from pension plans in the 80/90's but didn't understand the impact of that and now its like ohhh...I know that i'm extremely lucky that i'll get a government pension (military) when I turn 62, on top of social security - but that isn't the case for everyone....
i finished this up today and my anger at our government/nation just continued to go trhough out ther est of it - especially when she talked about the Gini coefficient (comparing wealth within countries and how bad the US has gotten over the past few years) - as well as describing the now non-existant 3 legged stool that used to exist for retirement (Social Security, Pension and Stock Market - which is now really just social security because most pensions have been transitioned to 401k's or stock market and many people making minimum wage can't afford to invest).
An interesting read on social and economic injustice existing in our country. This period in our history draws a parallel with the Gilded Age of the late 19th-early20th century. The staggering difference between the 1% and the remainder of the nation is appalling. At age 73, I am fortunate in having all three legs of the 'three-legged stool.' The author has written a well-researched book that is an asset to this country. Do we want this to change? If so, then vote for those who propose a change.
Wanda wrote: "An interesting read on social and economic injustice existing in our country. This period in our history draws a parallel with the Gilded Age of the late 19th-early20th century. The staggering diff..."and hold accountable those who vote against it - you can see from the current infrastructure bill - reps who voted against it now saying how good it is for their consitutants etc...well then why didn't you vote for it....
Dee wrote: "Wanda wrote: "An interesting read on social and economic injustice existing in our country. This period in our history draws a parallel with the Gilded Age of the late 19th-early20th century. The s..."I agree, 100%. I hope they are continually asked this question.
I will admit that I felt pretty ignorant about a lot of this. I mean, I was well aware of the wealth gap and how things are getting more and more bleak for future non-zillionaire generations, but as a single, childless woman in her late 40's in a comfortable job, it has been easy to ignore. The last few years have opened my eyes, and reading this book put the humanity into the problem. It is unconscionable that hardworking people feel like they have to live like nomads, off the grid. And even worse that many of them are from states with government representatives who've been happy to continue to make the problem worse while raking in money from donors & corporations who also play a part in all this.I will never understand how easy it is for some uber-wealthy people to make decisions that make them wealthier while knowingly making others suffer more.
Rebecca NJI thought this book was eye-opening for a number of reasons and I would be really curious to see how these individuals have made out over the last 2 years. It's been difficult to capture my thoughts fully on this book because I have personally known about individuals living in these conditions - some were by choice (couple being camp hosts), some were not by choice (woman in debt and could either keep the car or the house), and some were in the middle (forced into early retirement, lost money in the stock market and decided it might be time to be a freelance writer on the road).
I cannot imagine the physical toll on some of these people as they work low-paying jobs. To have to work long shifts, often at night for better pay all the while trying to figure out where you are going to be parking your cat at the end of the night. It was early in the book when they talked about the See's Candy seasonal sellers that made me pause - I never thought of them as transient workers.
I enjoyed learning about the communities they are establishing - it gives a spark of hope that they are not alone. For some of those people who don't have families, it's that network they are creating that can be just as strong as a family bond. It reminded me a bit about the hikers on the Appalachian Trail who connect and reconnect as they go from point A to point B.
This book was an awakening. Being in a fortunate position thus far in my life, my idea of a nomadic life, has always been idealistic or romanticized. I grew up in a camping family and recently have had the pleasure of "glamping" in a 5th wheeler with friends. I have always enjoyed the comraderie of campers.But that life I dream about is for leisure and pleasure, not the lifestyle some of the folks in this book have been forced to choose in order to survive. Many of them say they are not homeless and happy with this lifestyle, yet it is hard to imagine purposely choosing to living out of cars, vans, RV's off the the grid, and hopping between jobs.
I came away admiring their resoursefulness, resilience, and spirit. It also made me think about my own wastefulness. I will definitely check out the Netflix movie and the special done on Dennis Weaver's Earthship home. (I've already done a little research on it.) ⭐⭐⭐⭐
I just read an article about California establishing a 401k program similar to thrift savings plan that the federal gov’t uses for employees who’s employers don’t offer pensions or their own ira’s - any employer with over 5 ppl is supposed to enroll employees in it (although they can disenroll if they want - so opt-out vs opt-in) and employers can deposit up to 5% employees pre-tax income - but no matching is offered Will be interesting to see how it plays out over next few years in scenarios such as those described in Nomadland and to see if other states implement similar
I've been reading a lot of non-fiction lately so I picked this as my group read. I had no idea this community of 50+ year old nomads existed, and especially not in such great numbers. I had heard of some well-off seniors selling off their homes to live the RV life in retirement, but that was like taking a permanent vacation, not a way to survive. The fact that Amazon has an entire nationwide work program that targets them surprised me.I was mainly surprised by how upbeat all of these people were and how they seem ok with the fact that there aren't enough government programs to assist them. I'm Canadian and although we could do better, I take comfort knowing that there are safety nets I could fall back on if I became out of work, disabled, or just too old to work.
I think the writing was very good and it sounded really well researched. It got a little repetitive since so many of these people have the same story and are living basically the same life, so I didn't enjoy this as much as some other recent non-fiction reads, but it was still solid.
I loved this book so much and I'm so glad we chose it as a group read. I guess I've lived on the sidelines of American society for so much of my adult life that I didn't find it shocking, though, and the scenes in the Amazon warehouse are actually tame compared to what my boyfriend and brother have shared from their Amazon jobs.This is the review I wrote for Goodreads:
Picture this scene: I'm taking a road trip from Montgomery, Alabama home to Tampa, Florida. On the way, I decided to detour and visit my family in rural north Florida. I stopped at a Dollar General in Enterprise, Alabama on the way and while waiting in line, I met an older gentleman who complimented my bag. I started chatting with him, and before I knew it, I was introduced to the concept of "workamping." This guy has traveled all over the US and works at campsites, etc while living in his RV. He was honest with me and said it was hard work, but that he wouldn't like to be trapped in one place and stuck paying off a mortgage that he may never see the end of.
When I discovered this book and found out there's a whole group of people in that demographic living like that, I was enthralled. Of course, I was a little less enthralled to find out WHY they are living like this, but I wasn't really surprised. Many of us only have one catastrophe between our middle-class lives and this sort of existence.
The sections about Amazon's CamperForce fascinated me, too. My boyfriend and brother have both worked at Amazon, and my boyfriend even worked at a massive distribution center with Kiva robots as described in this book. To be honest, the stories I've heard are even worse than this journalist describes. I cannot imagine doing that sort of backbreaking work for such low pay, and also not even having a stable home where you can relax and recover. I give all those workers huge props, but honestly, it's scandalous that one of the wealthiest corporations of all time can treat them like this and get away with it.
To me, this book describes America in a nutshell - even if society fails us, people have this urge to survive and make the best lives they can despite all odds. Linda May, the woman who is really featured throughout the book, is amazing. She's worked in all sorts of industries, had many personal struggles, but yet in her late 60s still wants to build an Earthship home in rural Arizona. She's an inspiration to me.
Angela ILThis was a 3 star read for me. This was also a difficult read and I felt many emotions as I read this book. Due to my own personal struggles, I try not to read non-fiction or true stories that don't have some element of hope as it leaves me feeling yucky. I do understand that these stories are important and I am glad that I picked up this book.
Even though I am aware that most of the resources that are available to the elderly, disabled, and mentally ill are lacking, I was unaware of the most of the topics discussed, like living in flux depending on seasonal work and living in less than ideal climates, such as freezing cold temperatures or hot muggy weather.
This is obviously such an unfortunate situation and how the trickle down of one event can affect so many people that I now have my eyes opened up to after reading this book.
I am glad the author chose some uplifting people to discuss while dealing with such a sad topic. I knew about van dwellers, although I have had more exposure to the happy, glossy Instagram version than the real, gritty version described in this book. I was glad the author went into their backgrounds, as seeing how hardworking Americans could end up in these situations was heartbreaking and a wake-up call. Hearing about the ingenuity that goes behind some parts of van dwelling was really interesting. Overall, this book does not paint America well, but I'm also not sure how much it really says beyond that. I wish there were more solutions, but hearing the stories behind these individuals is the first step I suppose.
Homelessness is not just an urban problem in the U.S. and has not been for over a decade. Nomadland is an eye-opener. Maybe it is a testament to the way most of us ignore those in hard-to-process social situations.This particular set of stories lent itself to those who "should" have made a better life for themselves in their middle class jobs. By and large these people are white -- and the white normalcy which created this situation is shown to be more than race-specific. It involves everyone, no matter the race -- and since race is a social construct. Nomadland uses its racelessness to show how the power structures go beyond "othering" by prescribed differences. Power is only concerned with itself, andd the few who have power are not concerned with how many people fall away in keeping the power sturcture intact. The idea that anyone can be an "other" is not important in keeping the power structure alive.
I wish the book had gotten into racial demographics a bit more. But the theme of callous power structures may have been diminished had the book gone that way. Still, I think that addressing any kind of "othering," including the American omnipresence of racial othering, makes real the fact that we all must address the othering which power-structuring declares as all-important.
It's interesting to me to see that almost all those who chose this book are from the US. As a Brit looking into another culture, I am always horrified by the precariousness of life over the pond, where just one big medical bill can lead to catastrophe.The people featured were (and I hope, still are) amazing, but I wish they had had a choice rather being forced into the nomad life.
Amy B|I'd heard of this book because of the movie, but had never read it. I'm glad I did (thank you, group reads).
This book is about a whole subset of the population I didn't know existed - those who, for whatever reasons, have decided to give up having a permanent address in favor of moving wherever they want (and need) to be. The book focuses on those who possibly are more on the "forced" side of the spectrum, those who find themselves at retirement age (or younger) and through economic depression, illness/medical bills, job loss, etc., have found themselves unable to comfortably retire. So they let go of their biggest expense, rent or mortgage, and hit the road.
I have to admit, though of course there are many sad stories in this dynamic, that I found the idea really appealing. I even started searching the web for used trailers and then had to stop, thinking, "you've got a good job....for now...and two very large dogs."
It is a really good read, thoughtfully presented. I was a bit surprised at some of the venom of reviewers of the book, people who felt like it was politically slanted. I didn't really find it to be that way, aside from the author's commentary in the coda. But, of course, I'm viewing it through my own personal ideological lens, just as they are.
I'd recommend it - eye-opening and thought-provoking, as well as being an entertaining read.
The requirement for task 20.10: You must participate in the book's discussion thread below with at least one post about the contents of the book or your reaction to the book after you have read the book.