Blood of Elves (Witcher #1) [February 8, 2022]

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

This is a Buddy Read for Blood of Elves by Andrzej Sapkowski starting February 8, 2022.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

I'm probably in for this one! :D

[Chris]

Probably in as well

[Laura Tenfingers]

Oooh I'm interested too.

Should The Last Wish be read first?

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "Oooh I'm interested too.

Should The Last Wish be read first?"

I would definitely recommend reading The Last Wish first! I'm not sure it's necessary, but I think it makes reading the main series more enjoyable.

[Laura Tenfingers]

Thanks Jenna!

[Saar The Book owl]

I'm in :D

[Fazila]

I am thinking abt joining on this one.

[Niki Hawkes, I made it past GOTM... barely]

I'm not sure who originally requested it, but maybe we can talk them into starting with the Last Wish?

[Chris]

You could probably squeeze Last Wish as well as Sword of Destiny in before this one starts.

[Laura Tenfingers]

I'm reading Last Wish now and it's good and pretty quick. Going for Sword of Destiny next.

[RachelG.]

The hold list at my library is crazy long for Last Wish. Would the series make since if I started with Sword of Destiny?

I guess I do have a month to read Last Wish and will hopefully get it by then.

[Fazila]

I haven't read The Last Wish or the Sword of Destiny.

[Saar The Book owl]

I'm in. If I remember correctly, it was Rob who requested it and I followed?

[Danielle]

I’m in for this!

[Caroline]

I'll try to join this one, too - Next week, I'll get Last Wish, Season of Storms and Sword of Destiny from my library, and hopefully I'm able to read them before February 8th :)

[Nirkatze]

Anyone have any thoughts about reading Season of Storms in publication order versus chronological? I've seen people online urge for either, though mostly publication.

[Laura Tenfingers]

Nirkatze wrote: "Anyone have any thoughts about reading Season of Storms in publication order versus chronological? I've seen people online urge for either, though mostly publication."

I was wondering that same thing. I think the stories in it take place between The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny??

I liked The Last Wish but Sword of Destiny isn't quite doing it for me unfortunately. Excessive objectifying of women and too much chasing tail instead of monsters...

[Nirkatze]

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "I was wondering that same thing. I think the stories in it take place between The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny??"

Yeah, I've heard that Season of Storms takes place at the same time as The Last Wish, in between different stories. I've also seem people recommend not reading it until the end, because Sapkowski puts a lot of foreshadowing/references to what is to come, and it's a better nostalgia trip than preface. I tend to prefer my stories chronological, so I'm up in the air right now.

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "I liked The Last Wish but Sword of Destiny isn't quite doing it for me unfortunately. Excessive objectifying of women and too much chasing tail instead of monsters..."

I've been thinking the same thing from the TV show standpoint. Especially having watched Wheel of Time at the same time. It had me thinking about male-gaze/female-gaze on screen, and there's definitely a lot of male-gaze going on in Witcher. I guess it's good to know that's book accurate...? >.< Thank you for the forewarning.

Just started Last Wish today! The opening sets the above tone fairly powerfully.

[Rob]

I've read The Last Wish and destiny already. There were a couple of us in that boat who wanted to finally get to "Elves" after reading those two. I'd be open to waiting for you all to catch up. I definitely enjoyed how some of the short stories came to life in the show.

Laura what do you mean by "gaze?" Completely going over my head :)

[Nirkatze]

I'm aiming to be ready for Elves by the start date, and it sounds like Laura is even further along than I am, so don't feel y'all need to wait for me! Already 1/3 of the way through. Probably hit 1/2 before bed.

So, male-gaze v. female-gaze are terms used in film and media to describe what visually appeals to straight men v. straight women. So like, in Witcher TV series, the men are buff and the women are dressed in tight and revealing clothing, with lots of bare breasts and behinds.

In Wheel of Time TV series, on the other hand, women are dressed in stylish cuts and colors, and large baggy comfortable nightshirts. When there is nudity, it is equal male and female, and often side shots rather than t&a shots. Rather than gym-alpha style physique men slaughtering monsters to save princesses (which true, is more plot point than directing style), there are men of slighter physique putting aside their own dreams to listen to what their friends need.

I enjoy both shows. But I can definitely see a difference in both the source material and how they are directed; the audience the visuals are created for. This is a pretty good explanatory article: (https://aninjusticemag.com/the-male-g...)

[Nirkatze]

Hope no one minds me posting thoughts on Last Wish and Sword here as I read? I'm definitely finding it interesting reading the books post watching the TV series.

Like how in the first two short stories, The Witcher and A Grain of Truth (view spoiler)[The big "reaveal" for each episode--that the Striga was a child of incest, or that Nivellan was cursed for raping a priestess, were not reveals at all. Both pieces of information were presented to Geralt while telling tales over a pint. The reversal in the reading makes the world in the books seem even harsher and crueler--that people in this world don't care about hiding rape or incest, that's just Tuesday. (hide spoiler)]

I also find it interesting that the timeline is just as patchwork in the Last Wish book as it was in TV series. I actually enjoyed that aspect of the TV show (though I heard many found it disorienting), so I'm having fun piecing together the timeline in the book too.

Doesn't matter what incarnation he is, I still want to slap Stregobor.

[Nirkatze]

I also find it interesting how traditional fairy tales are woven into Witcher, like (view spoiler)[Merchants daughters and roses in A Grain of Truth. In The Lesser Evil, tales of locking beautiful women in towers and a recent fad among princes to rescue them. A queen with a magic mirror who sends her stepdaughter into the woods with a huntsman, a stepdaughter who then falls in with seven gnomes--and then later ends up encased in crystal. In A Question of Price, there's a mention of a beauty fleeing a ball and leaving a slipper, and another of a women promising her child to the gnome Rumplestelt.

Makes me wonder--since the 2nd tale has Beauty & the Beast inspirations, and the 3rd Snow White--do each of them have an inspiration? Would the Striga be a nod to Sleeping Beauty? Or another tale I don't know? How about Pavella and Duny? None of these hints came through in the TV series. (hide spoiler)]

And I enjoyed the line (view spoiler)["...it doesn’t rhyme. All decent predictions rhyme." (In the TV show I think he says "all good prophecies")

In Stregobor's defense (not a place I like being), he did say the prophecy had been deciphered from writings of various cultures, so it's possible it did rhyme in its original language. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura Tenfingers]

Oh wow this gaze thing is super interesting! I've thought of some of those things but didn't know the terminology. There are definitely shows/books where you can tell they're written with one (straight) sex in mind or the other.

Sapkowski was definitely thinking straight men would be reading his books... If I read about one more set of perfect tits I'm going to kick someone in the junk.

Women authors don't subject men to objectification in fantasy or sci-fi do they? (Only romance or erotica)

[Laura Tenfingers]

Btw definitely interested in comments about the short story anthologies 😊

[[deleted user]]

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "Oh wow this gaze thing is super interesting! I've thought of some of those things but didn't know the terminology. There are definitely shows/books where you can tell they're written with one (stra..."

Well it happens with both men and women but i guess it depends on what you consider objectification or the "gaze" (be it male or female).

As Rob mentioned, i am having a dificulty finding that in the Sword of Destiny but i may not be looking correctly.

To me, if you want an ex. of male gaze, you should look at older fantasy or Sci-Fi like "A stranger in a strange land". It is somewhat to be expected taking into account when it was writen but it makes the books feel so dated and dificult to read.

[Laura Tenfingers]

From Sword of Destiny:

"Geralt saw that she had gorgeous, utterly perfect breasts. Only the colour spoiled the effect; the nipples were dark green and the aureolas around them were only a little lighter."

I'm not interested in detailed descriptions of women's perfect but actually not so perfect body parts. None of the women in this book seem to be more than a collection of tits and shapely legs...imho lol

To me, if you want an ex. of male gaze, you should look at older fantasy or Sci-Fi like "A stranger in a strange land". It is somewhat to be expected taking into account when it was writen but it makes the books feel so dated and dificult to read

Wow it's been a long time since I read Stranger in a Strange Land! I would have been too young to get my knickers in a twist over this but I'm planning on reading The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress so we'll see how I feel now!

[Laura Tenfingers]

Rob wrote: "I've read The Last Wish and destiny already. There were a couple of us in that boat who wanted to finally get to "Elves" after reading those two. I'd be open to waiting for you all to catch up...."

Great. I'll be ready for Elves by 8 Feb. But happy to wait longer if people want more time to read the short stories.

[Nirkatze]

I'm only halfway through Last Wish so far, but there's so much that says "male gaze" to me.

Two women have already thrown themselves at Geralt--one without saying anything, and one without knowing him more than a few hours.

Almost every conversation between two men involves talk of the physical qualities of women, or women throwing themselves at men.

And I haven't even gotten to the parts like Laura is describing yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the book. I just don't feel like the target audience.

[Rob]

Ok very informative and that article was excellent too.

I definitely don't mind the commentary on the Last Wish - it jogs my memory!

It's been at least 20 years since I read Stranger in a Strange-land. I remember liking it and thinking it was different from the usual epic fantasy I read, but not much else.

Yes, Witcher is definitely a hetero-male-based fantasy (as is the Night Angel series in a very over-the-top, lowest common denominator teenage hetero-male way which I probably would not have noticed as a teen, but as an adult just find it ridiculous and kinda laughable wondering why the author is going so out of his way to sexualize every woman in the book so much so that it reads like a plot digression).

And yes, Stregobor is in need of a slap.

[Saar The Book owl]

I'm in the cue of the library for The Last Wish I hope to get to it soon.

[[deleted user]]

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "From Sword of Destiny:

"Geralt saw that she had gorgeous, utterly perfect breasts. Only the colour spoiled the effect; the nipples were dark green and the aureolas around them were only a little l..."

Ah ok, i can see what you where refering to. I guess i am just formated to overlook that because i tend to skip sexual content in books since it never seems to add anything and is almost always badly done.

As to Heinlein, i have not read his other works but the large majority of works i have read from the time tend to be simmilar. If you have fond memories of A Stranger in a Strange Lend then let them be and don't go back to it because it has not aged well in that aspect.

[Laura Tenfingers]

Filipe wrote: "If you have fond memories of A Stranger in a Strange Land then let them be and don't go back to it because it has not aged well in that aspect..."

Good point

[Nirkatze]

@Filipe, Laura, re: Stranger in a Strange Land. Ditto that. Sad though.

[Nirkatze]

Through The Edge of the World. I'm enjoying the little asides about how the world is changing, and the entrepreneurial side. Like (view spoiler)[trolls charging for keeping up bridges. Farmers letting a dragon fly off with livestock because it is the favorite of the local princess and the last of its kind. Unicorn hunters cultivating virginity as a weapon, then having a big retirement party. Ratcatching pipers being put out of business by spells and poisons, then ferrets and cats.

The fact that the more successful Witchers are, the less work they will find is a difficult...oxymoron? Not sure if that's the right word. (hide spoiler)]

The Last Wish (view spoiler)[I was feeling really bad for poor Errdil and his wife, with Yenn just busting up their Inn with her magic. So I was super relieved when he said he had it insured for a huge sum! And of course, he was smart enough to make sure his policy covered magic and supernatural events. Made me itch to check my own insurance policy... (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Nirkatze wrote: "@Filipe, Laura, re: Stranger in a Strange Land. Ditto that. Sad though."

Well times change, as do tastes and our views. What was common and widely accepted then just sound bad today.

Some of these books will always have their place in history and if you can take into account when they where writen, you may have a good reading exp.

[Saar The Book owl]

So, maybe I've missed it somewhere, but are we reading 'The Last Wish' first? I've got my copy and because the question about this got asked.

[Fazila]

I hope we can start with The Last Wish. Or else I'll have to cram those before this. Dunno if it's going to be possible?

[Rob]

Fazila wrote: "I hope we can start with The Last Wish. Or else I'll have to cram those before this. Dunno if it's going to be possible?"

Others are reading the Last Wish right now and commenting in this thread.

I finished season 2 of the Witcher the other day so I'm excited to get to Blood of Elves, We have about a month until this buddyread. (that said it wouldn't be a major armtwist to push it back for me either).

[Laura Tenfingers]

Rob, is season 2 of The Witcher from Blood of Elves? I've just finished season 1 and can't decide if I want to watch or read first....

I read Last Wish and Sword of Destiny at the same time as I watched season 1. Now I can't tell which differences were from the book or the show but whatever, it was fun.

[Laura Tenfingers]

I found Last Wish and Sword of Destiny pretty fast reads. They're not long and the short story format moved along at a pretty good clip.

[Rob]

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "Rob, is season 2 of The Witcher from Blood of Elves? I've just finished season 1 and can't decide if I want to watch or read first....

I read Last Wish and Sword of Destiny at the same time as I w..."

I think they took quite a bit from both seasons into the blood of elves, but I'm hearing they put more action into the show. So I may have spoiled myself, but that's ok :)

[Rob]

oh and off-topic, but Laura you'll appreciate this. Someone came to one of the Facebook fantasy reads asking for "disturbing fantasy book recommendations". I had to of course reply:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/m8vGLDxQSFi...

I didn't expect the response I got though.

[Nirkatze]

@Rob, is that the (view spoiler)[real author teasing y'all? (hide spoiler)] That's awesome!

[Nirkatze]

@Fazila & Saar--I finished The Last Wish in about two and half days, and I'm not the speediest reader. Haven't had a breath to pick up Swords yet, but there's still a few weeks until Blood of Elves kicks off!

I plan on spamming y'all with my thoughts as I go again.

@Laura, re: Season 2--I believe the main plot is taken from Blood of Elves--but at least one episode is from The Last Wish, and I've heard that the first couple episodes are only like two chapters in Blood of Elves, whole storylines are cut out, and there's a bunch of stuff they just made up too. Be prepared for a very loose adaptation.

Also, I haven't spoiled myself yet on who, but I heard that there is (view spoiler)[a death in the TV series that caused a lot of hubbub in the interwebs. Not sure if it is because that character doesn't doesn't die in the books, or if it was just a very impactful death, or what. I still have two episodes left to go. Hopefully this weekend! (hide spoiler)]

[Fazila]

Gonna trust you all on them being shorter reads and hoping to start once I finish my current reads. With the way things are going I don't know If I'll be able to make it work, but gonna try regardless.

[Laura Tenfingers]

Rob wrote: "oh and off-topic, but Laura you'll appreciate this. Someone came to one of the Facebook fantasy reads asking for "disturbing fantasy book recommendations". I had to of course reply:

https://photos..."

Oh Rob!! That is solid gold!!! Totally rocks! He commented on my review too and answered a question I had. *fangirling*

[Saar The Book owl]

I've started 'The Last Wish' and it's at moments more comedy that I'm reading than fantasy, but I'm enjoying it. Not so far in it, though, I'm at (view spoiler)[the part where Nivellen (I'm reading the Dutch vesrion, so I don't know if it's the same name) makes his appearance. Geralt seems to be some kind of monster bounty hunter. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Yay! Welcome to the pre-reads Saar!

I'm curious how the humor comes out in translation--your Dutch version and my English version. Anyone here read Polish? Would love to hear you share any specific funny moments you enjoyed.

I'm planning on hopping back in here when I find time to pick up Sword of Destiny.

Off topic but--What are y'all's thoughts on counting Last Wish and Sword of Destiny as BRs per the reading competition--if we post our thoughts here?

[Saar The Book owl]

It's such a weird and funny story! I'm at the part where spoiler>Geralt meets the evil version of Snowhite and the 7 dwarfs. No idea that the author would include fairytales that we know of. The humor isn't much different than the English translation, I think. I just struggle with the Polish words of characters and places. I had moments that I thought that it isn't for me, but then I just read on.

So, if I understand correctly, you want to BR the other books too and make our comments here?