21st Century Literature discussion
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Leave the World Behind
11/21 Leave the World Behind
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Leave the World Behind--general discussion, no spoilers
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Oct 31, 2021 01:39PM
Welcome! Here is a place for general discussion, no spoilers.
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I'm looking forward to this discussion because this is a highly unusual book, and it's a polarizing one. Is it good? Is it terrible?The first time I read it I was confused and disgruntled. Now it's one of my favorite books of the 21st century, one that I'm diving back into for the 5th time for this discussion.
There are some things about the novel that make it a challenge to love, especially the first time through.
One challenge is that the family patriarch, Clay, is in the beginning a shallow unappealing male who seems to be thinking about sex all the time and in unusually graphic ways.
A second challenge is the book begins in a sardonically-toned way that for me required patience. It's only after I read through to the end that I understood the author's choice to make the people so unpleasant and so preoccupied with petty problems in the beginning.
The third challenge is that the book keeps morphing and changing shape and any conclusion I came up with where I said to myself, "oh, it's THIS kind of book..." was quickly contradicted. The book in the end is not the same book as the one I started with.
[full disclosure: Once I'd decided I love this novel I asked Rumaan Alam to read my upcoming book and he blurbed it positively. He is quoted on the jacket. We have the same publisher.]
Here is a link to the Bookmarks roundup of reviews for the novel:https://bookmarks.reviews/reviews/lea...
As on Goodreads, the reviews are all over the place.
Another sign of people being confounded by this novel: I'm not sure there have been very many books that have been both "Read With Jenna" picks (for those of you in the UK, these books are usually in the 'popular and slightly literary' category of book) AND a National Book Award finalist.
I'm also going to post a link to Claire Fuller's review of the novel here on Goodreads, because she does such a good job of summing up the range of reactions she's seen in gr reviews about the novel:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Mod
That was an excellent, concise, review of some of what I've seen.
It did push one of my buttons with the line " I'd say that Alam is mixing literary with horror here", which always tips me off to a reviewer that has no clue what is out there in the horror field these days.
Paul Tremblay's story "It's Against the Law to Feed the Ducks" wold make an excellent companion piece with "Leave the World Behind". Similar set-up of family on vacation while there is an ambiguous apocalypse going on in the wider world.
I think I might join in this one, I read an extract and was quite gripped, but won't be able to start for another day or so. What's the system for group reads on here? Every group I'm in seems to have a different approach Do you finish the book then comment? Or read in sections together? Rules about spoilers?
Alwynne wrote: "I think I might join in this one, I read an extract and was quite gripped, but won't be able to start for another day or so. What's the system for group reads on here? Every group I'm in seems to h..."Alwynne, it's not a long book (241 pages) so my plan is to invite people to comment here in this thread, without spoilers, until they've read some of the book, and then to comment more specifically about the book in the other thread marked "spoilers ok."
I'll start off that thread tomorrow with a request that we discuss a certain number of pages only, for the next few days, like the first three chapters or something.
I'll open the discussion up for more of the book in three days or so, and then open discussion of the full book on Nov. 8.
That's my plan, anyway!
I think for longer books the people moderating discussions in this group will open more threads, to discuss different sections of the book. This one is so short that I think we'll be ok with these two threads.
Mod
We don't normally impose any constraints or reading schedules in this group, which is why we always have spoiler threads that should be avoided by those who care. Longer books can have several spoiler threads to allow intermediate discussions, but past experience suggests the shorter the section is, the less likely the thread is to attract more than a few comments.
I absolutely loved the novel. Thanks again to Lark for the nomination. I hadn't realized how marmite the book is but got a taste of that when I mentioned the book in another group. My preread suggestion is to not try and pigeon hole the book into a genre or category and be aware of the writing, the wit, the humor, therein contained. My thoughts are closest to C.C. Harrison from The New York Journal of Books whose review is linked in the Book Marks aggregation above. Looking forward to the discussion.
I plan to start this today in audio. I'm looking forward to it as it has very mixed reviews. I love seeing the enthusiasm already in this conversation.I agree that I would prefer that all threads (non-spoiler and spoiler) are open at the beginning of the month so we can participate on our own timeframe. Thanks.
I read this book when it showed up on the 2020 National Book Award long list. It was my least favorite of the long list and in my review, I commented that my ranking probably assured I would see it on the short list and sure enough it was. I do not tend to reread books but I read this in audio and might reread for this discussion.
I read this earlier this year, so looking forward to the discussion. I didn't love it, so I'm looking forward to hearing more about why other people did!
I'm in. I had a look at the first chapter, just to get an idea of what I was getting into, and found myself on chapter five.
I'm going to suggest in the other thread that we take the next three days to limit our comments to our impressions through ch. 14, p. 85.
lark wrote: "I'm going to suggest in the other thread that we take the next three days to limit our comments to our impressions through ch. 14, p. 85."Thanks Lark, is 'through' the equivalent of up to but not including chapter 14 OR up to and including chapter 14? And which edition are you referring to when you cite page numbers?
Sorry! I have the hardcover. I was thinking -through- to the end of ch 14.
Thanks, one of those pesky UK/US usage things!
Link to Bill Callahan's recording of the song cited in the epigraph:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnxL2...
I've started this now, it's an interesting approach, the detailing of the family's lifestyle and consumer choices reminded me of aspects of what used to be called 'chicklit', and it underlines the way in which consumer capitalism has shaped their sense of self/identity. It also has a curiously retro feel Brett Easton Ellis meets Jay McInerney.
Alwynne wrote: "It also has a curiously retro feel Brett Easton Ellis meets Jay McInerney. ..."I vibe with this comment, Alwynne! There is a lot of body-oriented detail that includes sexuality. And smells. It's not the kind of descriptive language that I'm easy with, typically. I needed to overcome my squick-reactive first feelings about what I was reading, especially the first time I read the novel.
Oh dear, I was a visitor to the world of the early chapters, and the details are painfully spot on. (I was even IN that world on midnight, Dec. 31, 1999, while we waited for the Millennium Bug to surface. Nothing happened, though. )
Alwynne wrote: "I've started this now, it's an interesting approach, the detailing of the family's lifestyle and consumer choices reminded me of aspects of what used to be called 'chicklit', and it underlines the ..."Part of my attention in this book is dedicated to all the product descriptions! Driving me a little crazy that the author is creating the identities of the characters by what they buy, eat, where they live, where they were educated, what they do for work. Not too far off in how people identify themselves in our society, but to me not so engaging in a novel. Interested to see where this goes.
It seems no different from various, more explicitly commercial novels I've read in the past, "Gossip Girl" comes to mind, personally find it fascinating, although it might get tiring later! But here I'm assuming that part of this is strategic because the book's not so much about them as individuals but what they represent?
I also noticed the use of slightly disturbing similes and metaphors Archie's shoulders 'the pink of uncooked meat'; trees absorbing sound as 'cotton might blood'.
Suzy wrote: "Interested to see where this goes. ..."Suzy, it does "go" to interesting places, where the consumerism of the first chapters gets repurposed fairly quickly as having other intentions in the novel than it does in other novels.
(so hang in there~)
Alwynne, yes, there are pretty sharp signals dropped among all the innocuous details. The GPS seems to drop out pretty frequently, for instance. Off we go...
Sorry Lark, I didn't find the details innocuous, it was the entire book. I finished it and my strongest reaction was 'so what?"
Alwynne wrote: "Sorry Lark, I didn't find the details innocuous, it was the entire book. I finished it and my strongest reaction was 'so what?""Alwynne, I'd love to respond in detail but maybe over on the "spoilers ok" thread.
I'll say here that the first time I read this novel I felt the same way that you do, but with repeat readings I've come to be in awe of this novel and what it does.
I get your frustration, though, and it's very mysterious how some people love a book and other people think "huh?"...that happened to me most recently with Piranesi. I was on the "huh" team.
I'm not frustrated I didn't have a strong enough response for that, more puzzled about the intense reactions this has provoked. It seems fairly standard, mid-market literary fare.
I'd rather move the discussion of the whole book over to the other thread, but I think it's safe to share here that one of the things I loved about the book is its restraint. It's "not with a bang, but with a whimper" quality.I recently watched a Netflix film called Lingua Franca. It's directed by Isobel Sandoval, a trans woman, who also stars in it. There is an amazingly tender love scene in it between her character and a straight/cis man, and the scene remains tender, rather than exploding in violence and disgust, a là The Crying Game...what we've been tuned to expect in stories about trans women.
So that's a big aside but it's something non-spoilery to say about why I loved the quietness or "innocuous"-ness of the novel's events as described. I'd like to move this discussion over to the other thread though where we can talk in detail about the novel.
Alwynne, for MOR fare, the discussion threads have three times the participation of most of the other recent titles. Alam must have done something right!
lark wrote: "A second challenge is the book begins in a sardonically-toned way that for me required patience. It's only after I read through to the end that I understood the author's choice to make the people so unpleasant and so preoccupied with petty problems in the beginning."I started this book last week and decided to make it a dnf but had a slight feeling I might be missing out on something, your discussion opener has caused me to think I will give it another run. If so I'll be back to see further thoughts from the group.
