The Chimes (hosted by Petra)

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Milena - it's wonderful to see you :) And I'm so glad you're joining in this one, so we have the authentic voice of Italy!

[Milena]

I'm happy to be here, Jean. I made the most of the holidays to read The Chimes in English: I missed the group :-)

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

And we missed you, Mila! The idea of reading Charles Dickens when your first language is not English absolutely amazes me (and yet I know quite a few members do). We've been having a tussle with a few words and expressions in The Chimes as it is!

But I digress ... sorry Petra :)

[Petra]

No problems, Jean. We're here to discuss everything, including reading Charles Dickens in English when it's not one's first language. I find that an amazing accomplishment.

Milena, I'm glad you have joined us.

[Bridget]

I felt the same way about Sir Joseph Bowley! Dickens does such a great job portraying him, and his wife! I especially liked this line from Sir Bowley: "at this season of the year we should think of - of- ourselves". He's talking specifically about paying off his debts, but I think Dickens means for us to read more into that statement. It sounds like something Scrooge would have said.

I did like the sort of rebuttal to Sir Bowley's speech when Will Fern says:

"Act your Plays and Games without me, and be welcome to 'em, and enjoy 'em. We've nowt to do with one another. I'm best let alone!"

[Bridget]

Petra, thank you for the detailed summary. It really does help me make sure I'm following along properly with the story.

I really enjoyed the motif at the beginning of this section where Dickens personifies "The Year" itself as a metaphor for the poor and downtrodden:

"The patient Year had lived through the reproaches and misuses of its slanderers, and faithfully performed its work. Spring, summer, autumn, winter. It had laboured through the destined round, and now laid down its weary head to die"

I can't help comparing that to poor 60-year-old Toby still trotting along in all kinds of weather every day.

[Paul]

Bridget wrote: "Petra, thank you for the detailed summary. It really does help me make sure I'm following along properly with the story.

I really enjoyed the motif at the beginning of this section where Dickens p..."

And thank you for pointing out a keen observation of the power of Dickens' wordsmithing abilities.

[Curt]

Isn't the English language dynamic. Multiple meanings, double meanings. Dickens was a master at the use of words.

[Paul]

Dickens continues with the personification of the Bells as they call to Trotty and demand that he come to them. When he finds the doors to the stairway up to the belfry open, did you feel that this was already part of a dream or was Dickens taking paranormal licence here allowing the bells the power to make Trotty's attendance in the belfry impossible to deny?

[Judy]

I'm late to chime in (sorry!) but have just read the first two quarters and caught up with all the interesting discussion so well led by Petra.

A bit of background about the church - a note in the Oxford World's Classics edition mentions that an illustration by Clarkson Stanfield for the first edition showed the church of St Dunstan in the West in Fleet Street. The same church also features in David Copperfield and Barnaby Rudge. Several websites say The Chimes was dedicated to the church but I couldn't find the dedication anywhere and don't know if this is true!

I found a discussion of this via Google Books in a book called Fairy Tales of London: British Urban Fantasy, 1840 to the Present by Hadas Elber-Aviram (this book looks interesting but costs a fortune!) which says that Dickens is describing the old church as it was in his childhood in the text, but the illustrations show the church as it was at the time when the book was written, after being restored in 1831. The author says Dickens must have wanted this discrepancy between the text and the illustrations, to combine the new and old churches, and suggests it is because of the fantasy element in the story.

[Judy]

I also just looked up Alderman Cute and see he is said to be based on Sir Peter Laurie, a famous Middlesex magistrate. According to the notes in the old Oxford edition I'm reading, he "prided himself on being able to talk colloquially to the poor". It also says "one of Laurie's mandates was to deter the poor from committing suicide by imposing harsh sentences on those who attempted it."

There is a bio of Peter Laurie here - he was a prison reformer so seems to have had a strange mix of views.
It says: "Later, Laurie had a further run-in with Dickens when he publicly denied the existence of Jacob’s Island, a London slum featured in Oliver Twist. Dickens devoted his preface to the novel’s first cheap edition (1850) to refuting and ridiculing Laurie’s denial."
https://www.natwestgroup.com/heritage...

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Paul that's an excellent question :) Charles Dickens loved his goblins, sprites and ghosts, but that aspect of The Chimes reminds me of To Be Read at Dusk. It is almost metafiction, and leads me to think it is Charles Dickens being deliberately ambiguous.

I'm sure Petra and others will also be intrigued by this. Thanks for raising it.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Judy - I'm so glad you're in for this read. We can always rely on you for excellent research, too :) Fascinating about the churches. I have a book with lots of photographs of the locations in Charles Dickens's novels as they are now, so I must see if it's there, and maybe upload a picture :)

Oh my goodness though that book is over £76 on kindle! My top is £5 - it's only a download after all.

Now I look I see that I wrote a bit about Peter Laurie in my review of The Chimes! :D I hadn't looked at it before reading this time, in case it reminded me in detail too much, so that I can read it along with everyone here.

But since we're now discussing the real people who Charles Dickens based the characters on, I'll quote a bit from there, which includes the origin of Mr. Filer, in the next comment.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Extract from Jean's review:

Referred to as the "Hungry Forties", the 1840's were a time of great social and political unrest. This is a campaigning novel; a novel urging social change, as so many of Charles Dickens 's novels are. In addition to A Christmas Carol his early novels such as Oliver Twist are full of criticisms of Utilitarianism. According to Jeremy Bentham, man's actions were governed by the will to avoid pain and strive for pleasure, so the government's task was to increase the benefits of society by punishing and rewarding people according to their actions. In Oliver Twist it was clearly depicted that consequent institutions such as the workhouse led to denial of all civil liberties and any human dignity.

In The Chimes, Charles Dickens is taking to task the English cleric and scholar, the political economist Thomas Robert Malthus. Thomas Malthus disagreed with short-term expediency, fearing that there were no acceptable measures to population growth other than virtuous behaviour. Otherwise misery, starvation, disease and war were inevitable. He wrote,

"The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man".

The character of Mr. Filer is clearly a satirical view of Thomas Malthus. This is indicated by his constant spouting of statistics, and instances such as telling Richard he had no business to marry. Other characters are also satirical portrayals of other topical figures, who embodied political or philosophical ideas of the time. Charles Dickens dwelt on their vices - the condescension and patronising attitude of Sir Joseph Bowley; the pomposity and high-handedness of Alderman Cute.

Apparently Alderman Cute is a satirical portrait of Sir Peter Laurie, whom Charles Dickens considered had a very dismissive attitude towards the poor people in London. Peter Laurie had publicly denied that Jacob's Island existed at all, even though Charles Dickens had written about the slum in Oliver Twist. In the first cheap edition of the novel in 1850, Charles Dickens wrote a new preface ridiculing Peter Laurie's denial.

[Petra]

Paul wrote: "Dickens continues with the personification of the Bells as they call to Trotty and demand that he come to them. When he finds the doors to the stairway up to the belfry open, did you feel that this was already part of a dream or was Dickens taking paranormal licence here allowing the bells the power to make Trotty's attendance in the belfry impossible to deny?
..."

Paul, that is a good question. I've pondered it, but not too much because I want Dickens to invoke the paranormal. I do enjoy a good ghost story.
I like the thought that there are benevolent beings amongst us who can guide us.

I am interested in what we all think on this. Is Toby dreaming or do the Bells summon him?

[Petra]

Judy wrote: "I'm late to chime in (sorry!) but have just read the first two quarters and caught up with all the interesting discussion so well led by Petra.

A bit of background about the church - a note in the..."

Judy, thank you! That's wonderful information.

So many things in Dickens' life come back in his stories. This old church must have meant a lot to him in his youth for it to be in so many of his stories.

It's a shame that that book is so expensive.

[Petra]

Judy wrote: "I also just looked up Alderman Cute and see he is said to be based on Sir Peter Laurie, a famous Middlesex magistrate. According to the notes in the old Oxford edition I'm reading, he "prided himse..."

Nice find!

[Petra]

Jean, thank you for the backgrounds on Thomas Malthus and Peter Laurie. I hadn't heard of either of these men until you and Judy mentioned them.
Knowing the history of Dickens' stories and characters adds another level of complexity to the story, making it more relevant, I'm sure, to the people of the day.
It adds a lot to my appreciation of the story as well.

[Petra]

Paul wrote: "Dickens continues with the personification of the Bells as they call to Trotty and demand that he come to them. When he finds the doors to the stairway up to the belfry open, did you f..."

As I was puttering around the house, I found myself thinking about this topic.
I was reminded that as Trotty ascended the tower, he felt beings around him, shrinking back to make room on the narrow stairs.
At the time of reading, this seemed to me to be the ghostly beings guiding Trotty up the stairs and encouraging him in his fright to continue upwards.

Perhaps it's my love of ghost stories but it seems to me that this may indicate that Dickens leaned towards the ghost story aspect.

[Paul]

Petra wrote: "At the time of reading, this seemed to me to be the ghostly beings guiding Trotty up the stairs and encouraging him in his fright to continue upwards."

Oooh ... I like that idea!

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Greg wrote: "Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Uh oh… I may be in trouble, then. I just bought a “translation” of Beowulf by Seamus Heaney. I hope I can understand it"

You shouldn't have trouble Shirley..."

Rosemarie wrote "Shirley, I have that translation of Beowulf and really enjoyed it a lot."

Thank you so much for your encouragement in reading Heaney's translation. I'm really looking forward to reading it. I read it in my high school sophomore British Literature class, but I don't remember much about it. So it will be all new to me again (as was Charles Dickens' Great Expectations and A Tale of Two Cities). Of course, that was A-G-E-S ago. LOL

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Bionic Jean wrote: "

Frontispiece - Fred Barnard 1878

The Poor Man's Friend - Fred Barnard 1878

Oh, I LOVE these Fred Barnard illustrations! He really has caught the essence of the characters. The one of Trotty (with his daughter) is the first one that made me realize that he - like many of the poor working class - would probably have been covered with the dirt of London. The uncleanliness of the poor would have further justified the rich's attitude that the poor were merely vermin to be controlled, "put down", and/or eradicated. Unfortunately, it is human nature to struggle to look beneath the surface.

Jean and Petra, I hope you will be able to find additional illustrations Barnard drew for The Chimes. They really tell the story.

[Judy]

Jean, thank you for posting the information from your review - very interesting that Filer is based on the philosophies of Malthus.

Something I thought was sheer genius in the Second Quarter was the dreadful poem/hymn verse that Lady Bowley has been inflicting on the men and boys in the village - this made me laugh out loud:

"O let us love our occupations,
Bless the squire and his relations,
Live upon our proper rations,
And always know our proper stations."

I wondered for a moment if this was a parody of the controversial third verse of All Things Bright and Beautiful, but I see that was actually written a few years later - the hymn was first published in 1848, while The Chimes was published in 1844. It has something of the same feel to it in celebrating the class system, though! This is the hymn verse, which is never sung now.

"The rich man at his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate."

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Bionic Jean wrote: "Extract from Jean's review:

Referred to as the "Hungry Forties", the 1840's were a time of great social and political unrest. This is a campaigning novel; a novel urging social change, as so many ..."

This was such an enlightening post, Jean, on so many levels. I had never heard of Sir Peter Laurie and only vaguely recognize the name of Thomas Malthus. But I feel sure Dickens' readers knew who these men were and recognized them in The Chimes. Where to us, this book is a great Christmas story, the poor would probably have felt great resentment in recognizing themselves and their powerless situation in life. Wow! These discussions are really opening up such a richer meaning to this story.

In looking up Thomas Malthus on Goodreads, I saw his book An Essay on the Principle of Population: The Future Improvement of Society. It sounds as though he was an early proponent of eugenics (and perhaps sterilization?). Were Victorian Workhouses a means to a Malthusian end?

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Were Victorian Workhouses a means to a Malthusian end?..."

They certainly came about as a result of trying to apply Utilitarian theories to address society's ills, and a misapplication of Utilitarianism principles. We've mentioned the Calvinistic influence of Thomas Carlyle too.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

What a lovely man Trotter was! Unlike Alderman Cute and Sir Joseph Bowley, who talked about how much they did for the poor, Trotty actually made sacrifices to provide aid. I was very moved when Trotty took his last sixpence and bought tea and a rasher of bacon to serve to Will Fern and Lilian. And to make sure his guests ate their fill, he pretended not to like either tea or bacon. His goodness was not just in offering his sacrifice, but in not letting them know it was a sacrifice.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Chimes started unrelentingly to call Trotty to them... just as he was laying down for the night and torturing himself with how bad at heart the poor are. Just as Jacob Marley visited Ebeneezer Scrooge to change his thinking and thereby redeem him, I think the Bells were doing to the same thing for Trotty. He needed a change in his thinking about himself and his fellow man, and the Bells were the means of doing this.

[Petra]

The Joseph Bowley's by John Leech:

[Petra]

I found this bookcover for The Chimes:



I find it rather intense, cold and dark. The goblins look vicious, Trotty (?) looks like he's in a war (wearing a helmet) and huge snow flakes are all around.

[Petra]

Trotty Meets Will Fern by George Alfred Williams:

[Petra]

George Alfred Williams (1875 – 1932)

George Williams was born in Newark, New Jersey. Engaged in a large mechanical business from ages seventeen to twenty, he spent his spare time in drawing and painting, without formal instruction.

Mr. Alexander W. Drake, art editor of the Century Magazine, encouraged him to give up a business career, and procured a commission to illustrate for the St. Nicholas Magazine.
Other commissions followed, the first important one being a drawing on "The East Side" for an article by Mrs. Schuyler Van Rensselaer. This led to commissions from Scribner's and Harper's among others.

Mr. Williams then made illustrations for editions of the English classics, such as Smollet, Felding, and Defoe, published by the University Press.

In 1915 he received a silver medal at the Panama Pacific Exposition. In addition to his paintings, Mr. Williams has written many essays on art, such as "American Marine Painters," "American Painters of Children," and "Robert Havell, the Engraver of Audubon's 'The Birds of America',

[Mary Lou]

I couldn't help but think that as Trotty was ascending the tower steps, he was descending into madness. I hope some ghosts turn up soon, because I'd prefer to think he was haunted rather than going insane. I'm optimistic because the ringing of bells preceded Marley's visit to Scrooge. maybe in Dickens' mind, bells herald the arrival of spirits.

Shirley, I like your observation about Trotty's genuine generosity as compared to Sir Joseph, who wants to control the poor, not actually help.

[Petra]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "What a lovely man Trotter was! Unlike Alderman Cute and Sir Joseph Bowley, who talked about how much they did for the poor, Trotty actually made sacrifices to provide aid. I was very moved when Trotty took his last sixpence and bought tea and a rasher of bacon to serve to Will Fern and Lilian. And to make sure his guests ate their fill, he pretended not to like either tea or bacon. His goodness was not just in offering his sacrifice, but in not letting them know it was a sacrifice..."

Shirley, you've summed up Trotty so well. He's a wonderful man.

It's a shame that he's being made to feel so small and insignificant in his (and other Poor's) circumstances. To make the poor feel so lost and unprotected is a travesty for all of Society, regardless of class or circumstances.

[Teresa]

I like to think it's the ghostly element. I'm a sucker for a good ghost story and I want something nice to happen to Trotty!

[Teresa]

I started the Pepy's diary but didn't get very far. I intend to go back one day. Hopefully.

[Petra]

When I was a teenager, the newspaper published a day of Pepy's diary every day. I read it every day and enjoyed it.
One day I'd like to read the diary straight through.

[Rosemarie]

Trotty deserves a break. He works so hard at his little job and has a big heart.

[Teresa]

That would be a lovely way to read it Petra and more manageable for people like me who find it hard going.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Regarding The Diary of Samuel Pepys:

Teresa: Did you enjoy the part you read? Was it understandable (considering it was first published in 1669)?

Petra: What a wonderful thing for your newspaper to have done! I bet you really enjoyed it, especially the pace of it. Oh, my, if only newspapers would do that nowadays - a daily community read of a great classic! I love to read how newspapers used to publish serials, and their audiences couldn't wait to read the next editions.

[Petra]

It was a fun way to read the diaries. I don't think the newspaper went through the entire diary, though, but I don't fully recall.

Shirley, I like serial writings in newspapers as well, no matter what the form. There was a comic strip called Prince Valiant that I also liked reading. It was a serial story that just kept continuing.

[Teresa]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Regarding The Diary of Samuel Pepys:

Teresa: Did you enjoy the part you read? Was it understandable (considering it was first published in 1669)?

Petra: What a wonderful thing for y..."

Been some time since I attempted it. Yes I think I understood it but it was slow going and the size of it is daunting.

[Petra]

Rosemarie wrote: "Trotty deserves a break. He works so hard at his little job and has a big heart."

Rosemarie, I do hope Trotty gets a break. He's such a wonderful man.

I also hope that Meg & Richard, and now Will & Lillian, also get a break.

[Petra]

Clarkson Frederick Stanfield (3 December 1793 – 18 May 1867)

Charles was born in the north of England in 1793 and apprenticed to an Edinburgh painter at the age of thirteen. He joined the British merchant service in 1808, and was impressed into the British Navy four years later.

Once out of the Navy, Stanfield turned to theatrical scene-painting, where he met young Charles Dickens in 1837. A. On 7 June, 1839, Dickens mentions in a letter having gone to the theatre with "Stanny" and Daniel Maclise ("Mac") to see a Buckstone play; by this point, Stanfield was very much involved in Dickens's amateur theatricals.

Stanfield abandoned scenery painting after Christmas 1834, though he made exceptions for two personal friends: he designed scenery for the stage productions of William Charles Macready, and for the amateur theatricals of Charles Dickens.

In 1846, Stanfield withdrew from the commission to illustrate Dickens's Pictures from Italy.

He was one of seven friends of Charles Dickens who worked collaboratively on the plates for the last four of the Christmas Books. His contributions were limited to subjects that were his forte, architectural and marine scenes.

John Alexander Hammerton notes that Stanfield's work in the Christmas Books was "of a quiet and conventional type," and that, "if they did not add to the humour of the stories [as John Leech's drawings did] -- he was never guilty of attempting the comic -- certainly enriched the artistic side of the book in which they appeared".

In June, 1857, at the completion of its serial run Dickens dedicated Little Dorrit to Stanfield.

In his last 10 years, Stanfield's health deteriorated. He died in Hampstead, London, on 18 May 1867; there was an unfinished painting on his easel. He was buried in Kensal Green Catholic Cemetery.

Charles Dickens, was one of the last visitors that Stanfield saw on the day he died.
After Stanfield's death, Dickens wrote: "He was the soul of frankness, generosity and simplicity. The most genial, the most affectionate, the most loving and the most lovable of men. Success had never for an instant spoiled him . . . He had been a sailor once; and all the best characteristics that are popularly attributed to sailors, being his, and being in him refined by the influence of his Art, formed a whole not likely to be often seen."


Sir John Alexander Hammerton (27 February 1871, in Alexandria, Scotland – 12 May 1949, in London)
Hammerton edited a biography of J. M. Barrie and studies of Charles Dickens and Robert Louis Stevenson.
He also wrote Concise Universal Biography: A Dictionary Of The Famous Men And Women Of All Countries And All Times, Recording The Lives Of More Than 20, 000 Persons And Profusely Illustrated With Authentic Portraits And Other Pictorial Documents and an autobiography, Books and Myself: Memoirs of an Editor

He edited Punch Library of Humour, a book series of volumes of selected Punch Magazine sketches, described as "cream of our national humour, contributed by the masters of the comic draughtsmanship and leading wits of the age to 'Punch'".
Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Al...

[Petra]

The Old Church by Clarkson Stanfield:

[Bridget]

Petra wrote: "Clarkson Frederick Stanfield (3 December 1793 – 18 May 1867)

Charles was born in the north of England in 1793 and apprenticed to an Edinburgh painter at the age of thirteen. He joined the British..."

Thank you Petra for that background on Stanfield. I had not heard of him before, and I really enjoyed learning about him, especially knowing Dickens called him "Stanny". That's lovely.

I do like his drawing of the church. I agree it's so different from Leech's more comical drawings. It looks like its floating above the fog, which nicely captures the ethereal, or ghostly feel I got from reading about Trotty's ascent to the belltower. But it also has a very solid and stable feel, like a church should have for an innocent like Trotty, and reflects the words next to the drawing.

Thank you so much for sharing this.

[Teresa]

Wonderful information here Petra. I'm learning a lot since I joined the group recently. It's lovely to have the extras on a read.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Petra wrote: "Clarkson Frederick Stanfield (3 December 1793 – 18 May 1867)

John Alexander Hammerton notes that Stanfield's work in the Christmas Books was "of a quiet and conventional type," and that, "if they did not add to the humour of the stories [as John Leech's drawings did] -- he was never guilty of attempting the comic -- certainly enriched the artistic side of the book in which they appeared"...."

This quote by Hammerton made me wonder if Dickens hired John Leech to illustrate The Chimes precisely because he injected humor into his illustrations. I am not a fan of his style, but maybe Dickens preferred his illustrations with a little humor in order to let his dose of reproach on the rich go down a little better.

Charles Dickens, was one of the last visitors that Stanfield saw on the day he died. After Stanfield's death, Dickens wrote: "He was the soul of frankness, generosity and simplicity. The most genial, the most affectionate, the most loving and the most lovable of men. Success had never for an instant spoiled him . . . He had been a sailor once; and all the best characteristics that are popularly attributed to sailors, being his, and being in him refined by the influence of his Art, formed a whole not likely to be often seen."

Can anyone wish for a better eulogy? I also have never heard of Stanfield, but he must have been quite the gentleman. It's interesting that Dickens viewed sailors overall as imbued with the best characteristics. It's not how I portrayed sailors of that time period, but then again, Alexandre Dumas created the sailor Edmond Dantès in the The Count of Monte Cristo, who was a very warm and honest man when the story started.

Thank you, Petra, for all of this valuable information, which really increases our appreciation of this story.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Since we're approaching the end time for the second quarter, I'll post the illustrations I have for it. which aren't already here.

Thank you so much Petra and others for all the interesting posts :)

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

The Poor Man's Friend - Fred Barnard 1878

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Trotty and the letter - Charles Green

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

At Sir Joseph's - Charles Green