Lokasenna reading group

[Max]

😤

[Manny]

Going back to v 19, I just noticed that in

Loftski það veit
að hann leikinn er

"Loftski", which puzzled me, surely is "Lofts-ki", "Loftr-not"? It's currently glossed as "Loftski", but isn't this wrong? The concordance pairs the "-gi" with other occurrences of "-gi" and "-ki". And similarly, in v 39, I'm guessing

úlfgi hefir ok vel

is literally "wolf-not has and well", i.e. "it is not well for the wolf either"?

[Max]

Hmmm, I was puzzled also.

Your intuition that the normal nominative in -r (Loptr) retained its old sibilance (*-/z/) here is very impressive! I was thinking it was the familiar clitic er/es, which doesn't make any sense.
So does it mean:
'Loft himself knows not that he is devious/how tricky he is.'?

Manny said:is literally "wolf-not has and well", i.e. "it is not well for the wolf either"?
Correctamundo.

An aside, Vigfusson-Cleasby (hereafter V-C) says that it is probably on account of Ls. 39 that the supposedly earlier/original term ragnarök (neuter, strong) 'judgement/doom (of the gods)' was remodeled to ragnarökr 'dusk/twilight (of the gods)', which is the one that recent culture (movies, comics, books) has sort of 'taken and run'.

[Manny]

Max wrote: "So does it mean:
'Loft himself knows not that he is devious/how tricky he is.'?."

I was more inclined to guess that "það" was impersonal,
"Doesn't one know/don't you know how tricky Loft is?"
Not sure about the grammar, but it makes more sense!

BTW, I looked it up and apparently this name of Loki means "one who travels through the air".

Interesting, I hadn't understood there had been a shift from 'ragnarök" to 'ragnarökr". But surely not fair to blame Marvel, Wagner (Götterdämmerung) must be at least as guilty?

[Max]

Not blaming really, but it's only natural that the more 'romantic' option be preferred by les artistes, n'est-ce pas?

[Manny]

Stephenie Meyer, et les autres artistes.
Jésus-Christ.

[Un petit poème à Notre Seigneur, c'était Son anniversaire...]

[Max]

Manny wrote:
[Un petit poème à Notre Seigneur, c'était Son anniversaire...]"
Who? Cab Calloway?

[Manny]

How could I have missed that Cab Calloway was the Second Coming of Our Lord? In retrospect it's so obvious.

[Max]

Dec. 25th, baby.

"Take me to a church, and make me pray. Make me sing a psalm there. But ya betta leave my soul in a crude cafe, I don't even belong there."
- Cab, 2:14

[Brynjarr Þór]

Manny wrote: "In general, I'm increasingly curious to know whether we're supposed to believe that there's substance to Loki's accusations, if he's just causing trouble by spreading malicious rumours, or if it's ..."

I am inclined to say that there is substance to Loki's accusations (see, for example, the accusations against Þór later in the poem). His accusations are highly referential in nature, and they subsequently cause trouble in their wake. Unfortunately, we are missing a lot of the references. But we have enough material to understand the accusations against Þór, at least.

Loki's "slut-shaming" certainly involves a lot of interesting gender politics (i.e. the gender roles especially in relation to Loki's nature as a binary figure). Carol J. Clover has written a very influential article that might prove useful in understanding the context of the gender politics in Lokasenna, called "Regardless of Sex: Men, Women, and Power in Early Northern Europe." (1993)

You can also check out Ármann Jakobsson, "Masculinity and Politics in Njáls saga," 2007.

[Brynjarr Þór]

Max wrote: "An aside, Vigfusson-Cleasby (hereafter V-C) says that it is probably on account of Ls. 39 that the supposedly earlier/original term ragnarök (neuter, strong) 'judgement/doom (of the gods)' was remodeled to ragnarökr 'dusk/twilight (of the gods)', which is the one that recent culture (movies, comics, books) has sort of 'taken and run'.

This is a very interesting note. Snorri Sturluson, who we can thank for a lot of the references we still have to the Norse mythos, also alternatively uses "ragnarök" and "ragnarökkr" in his Snorra Edda.

[Brynjarr Þór]

Manny wrote: "Max wrote: "So does it mean:
'Loft himself knows not that he is devious/how tricky he is.'?."

I was more inclined to guess that "það" was impersonal,
"Doesn't one know/don't you know how tricky L..."

I think you are correct here, Manny, in thinking that "það" is impersonal here. And yes, the "-ki" in "Loftski" should have been glossed as "Loftr-not".

And "Loftr" certainly has similar etymological roots as the English word "loft" in the "lofty" sense.

[Manny]

Happy New Year, everyone!

Continuing the topic of whether Loki's accusations are supposed to be credible: I read the last line of v 54,

ok var það sá inn lævísi Loki.

as an explicit comment from the narrator that, here at least, Loki is lying. Is that correct?

[Max]

That's probably a safe assumption, although læ is something of a difficult word if only because it seems to make the leap from 'lie' (a negative thing?) to 'craft/skill' (a neutral or positive thing?, at least insofar as it is one of the three gifts of mind which man is given in Vsp.). This kind of semantic shift from bad to good (called 'ameloriation') is relatively rare in cultures that consider lying & the forswearing of oaths very serious crimes, and the etym. of læ (or rather its being one and the same word) has for this reason been debated.

But whether Loki is here outright 'deceitful' or 'crafty', it pretty much amounts to the same thing, right?

[Max]

An example of the other way around can be found in Latin facinus, which at first is merely a 'deed' but is more commonly used as '(mis)deed, crime', and this is probably because it is rooted in facio as a word capable of 'contriving/mental doing', as opposed to the neutral opus or participial actum, both of which denote bodily activity/work.

[Manny]

Interesting analysis!

It seems to me though that the old Nordic attitude to lying is ambiguous. Agreed, oaths are clearly a very serious matter, e.g. Vsp 27. But at the same time, there is a tradition of creative lying or bragging which has been maintained up to the present day (Kjærstad's Jonas Wergeland trilogy and Niemi's Populärmusik från Vittula are examples I loved). Arguably Loki himself captures this divided attitude, the trickster god you sometimes love and sometimes hate?

[Manny]

(BTW, seeing references to Þjazi in Ls 50-51, I looked him up to refresh my memory - I think the last time I read this story I was at primary school. Loki first kidnapping Iðunn and then rescuing her again is an unusual twist on the Persephone myth!)

[Manny]

Finished! I posted a review :)

I think there is a line missing in the prose text right at the end of the poem? Sounds something like "Þár tógu Æsir han."

[Brynjarr Þór]

Happy New Year!

Apologies for the late reply.

It was a pleasure reading your review, Manny. Admittedly, “Icelandic” humour is quite dark, sometimes bordering on “disturbing”, as you mention. This is especially true with the Old Norse corpus. With contemporary Icelandic films and television series, I feel that sometimes this disturbing factor is a motif that gets repeatedly played partly to make fun of exactly this stereotype of “Icelandic humour”. But that is just my guess! A number of Iceland films and series I’ve been watching lately do end tragically — or, in the case of Nordic noir, they end with the perpetrators getting caught, but the perpetrators are usually the authorities themselves. Very bleak, but that’s a happy ending for you.

Also, perhaps it’s better to describe Lokasenna as “satirical” rather than comical. In that way, the “humour” might be a bit more understandable. But that’s up for debate!


—

Also, yes, we are missing the line “Þar tóku æsir hann.” :)

[Manny]

Thank you again Brynjarr, if I ever do learn to appreciate Icelandic humour it will be largely due to your efforts :)

I just found the following passage in the rather fine introduction to Björn Collinder's Den poetiska Eddan:

Lokes träta har givit åtminstone ett nedslag i svenska diktningen, Strindbergs Lokes smädelser:

"I han makten, jag har ordet, jag har ordet i min makt; tretton ären I vid bordet; det betyder, man har sagt; dödsfall, ofall, onda tider: gudar, tagen Er i akt; ty vad rättnu tiden lider: gudar varen på Er vakt!"