Read Women discussion
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Great post Anita, although I'm so sorry you lost your friend. There seems to be some fallout from the friend software glitch, lost a couple from my list but they both friended during the glitch and had resent requests. Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone has a similar experience and wonders if they've been deliberately ghosted.
Anita wrote: "I have one book, A Little Life, that has forever been welded to the memory of a goodreads friend who passed away right after we read it together in another book club."I think I know who you mean. I followed her, and it was such a shock to hear that she died.
Carol wrote: "Story wrote: "Carol wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Carol, I could have written the exact same post! If people have those among their favourites it really bothers me a lot. Carol wrote: Funny. I'd add Th..."
I agree about gaps in priorities/values, I'd have the same issues with someone who loved a book/books that support capital punishment or were anti-queer/homophobic or anti-vax for that matter.
Anita wrote: "Carol wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Carol, I could have written the exact same post! If people have those among their favourites it really bothers me a lot. Unless, like you and Rand, they read them at a..."Everything about this post resonates, as does your fundamental kindness. Also random facts - many of my all-time favorite novels are Victoria Holt romances I read in the 1970s, and I believed Go Ask Alice was real until 3 years ago.
on that last, it sometimes still hits me when I see El's avatar or read a review and we weren't close. But she was such a strong presence in my experience of GR, and her sudden absence such a shock, that I feel the loss regularly. Other friends have stopped posting and I have no idea if they're distracted, busy, ill, dead, or simply determined not to use this platform any more and that variety of explanations is unnerving.
A Little Life must be the single most dividing line of reading preference I've encountered here and it fascinates me. In US NCAA football terms, its fans and haters have as much energy toward the other side as Auburn and Alabama fans. : )
It's quite odd when people disappear, one of my friends on here died in the post-Christmas Covid wave in England, and still seems hard to believe she's actually gone. I was quite worried about Canadian Bill recently too but heard from TBV that he's okay, just stepping back for a while.
Anita wrote: "Carol wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Carol, I could have written the exact same post! If people have those among their favourites it really bothers me a lot. Unless, like you and Rand, they read them at a..."I'm deleting my reference to The Help not to make me look better but because it was so incomplete as to lump a whole lot of folks unfairly into what is a pretty narrow sliver, and so was, without more, unfair and judgy mcjudgypants. (it would take paragraphs to get into magical negroes, white saviours, etc., none of which is enjoyable off-topic chat.)
signed - the person who hasn't really done anything yet for Christmas, even though I'm a lover of this holiday and time of year, but Q4 work ... which clearly i'm ditching in favor of hanging out with you all
Alwynne wrote: "Great post Anita, although I'm so sorry you lost your friend. There seems to be some fallout from the friend software glitch, lost a couple from my list but they both friended during the glitch a..."
Yikes. I keep hearing on other threads about disappearing reviews and the like but haven't seen that yet. I'm a bit puzzled, knowing how databases work, that these things are happening, but I feel for the engineers stuck with the related tickets at the same time they're fighting log4j. Thoughts and prayers.
Carol wrote: "Other friends have stopped posting and I have no idea if they're distracted, busy, ill, dead, or simply determined not to use this platform any more and that variety of explanations is unnerving."Yes :(
I'm afraid my reading taste may have grown more shallow over the last 15 years! I'm re-reading a book that I loved 15 years ago for being so wise and humane and grounding - Sarah Bakewell's How to Live: A Life of Montaigne in one question and twenty attempts at an answer. I wanted to feel that experience again, but now it just strikes me as boring! I have much less patience for non-fiction in general these days. I comfort myself by thinking that my fiction taste hasn't gotten that flighty (yet?)
Alwynne wrote: "It's not about judging someone's 'moral value' it's about self-protection and not aiding/abetting the spread of values I can't endorse or support."Yes, self-protection makes sense. That's how I react in the face of perceived snobbery, or classism, sexism, ageism and so in, so I believe I understand what you're staying.
Anita wrote: "We are always evolving, and where we are in different stages of our lives firmly affects how we recieve books when we read them. Reading is a conversation between the author and the reader, and the environment - setting both mental and physical - are contributing factors to that conversation.I agree with you. In the work I do with young families, we are always encouraged to meet people where they are, even if we don't agree with some of their views, because, as you say, different factors in our lived experience, cultures, education and environment have helped to form them and even if I might not personally like some view points, I can always hope that people will evolve and come to see things in other ways.
But to answer your question Story, I can say quite honestly that the books we've read together in this book club have made me many friends - even if they express disdain for my taste in certain books (I'm laughing, really).
I have one book, A Little Life, that has forever been welded to the memory of a goodreads friend who passed away right after we read it together in another book club. "
I'm so sorry you lost your book friend. It's strange how we may never meet our Goodreads friends face to face but can still be very saddened when we lose them. Two of my GR friends died of cancer and I still think of both with fondness.
Carol wrote: "I'm deleting my reference to The Help not to make me look better but because it was so incomplete as to lump a whole lot of folks unfairly into what is a pretty narrow sliver, and so was, without more, unfair and judgy mcjudgypants. "I rarely read American fiction so I've never read The Help but I did feel there was some unfair lumping of people like my mom and my aunt (who both loved the book) in your original response. I felt affronted that you seemed to imply people like them should be sent to some kind of reeducation camp for dumb white women**. (Especially as in the case of my mom and aunt, they're mixed race!) So I appreciate your revision, Carol.
**those probably weren't your original words but since you've removed them, I'm writing the impression I had after reading them. Apologies if I've stated it too strongly.
I know enough about the story (magical negroes, white saviours, etc.) to understand why you have reservations about it but I also feel that not everyone has had the kind of lives that equip them with either the critical thinking tools or the lived experience to react to the story in a way you might think was correct.
Story wrote: "Carol wrote: "I'm deleting my reference to The Help not to make me look better but because it was so incomplete as to lump a whole lot of folks unfairly into what is a pretty narrow sliver, and so ..."I accept all of this. You are right, of course.
Story wrote: "Carol wrote: "I'm deleting my reference to The Help not to make me look better but because it was so incomplete as to lump a whole lot of folks unfairly into what is a pretty narrow sliver, and so ..."I don't think that was what Carol intended by her comments Story, but since you're being honest about your personal response/reaction, then I should say I'm beyond tired of having to explain to white people why I might not want to be friends with people who like books that are racist and that promote attitudes that I've had directed at me in various ways since I was old enough to understand what people were saying to me/about me. And the kind of benign, well-meant, patronising "poor you", racism typified by books like 'The Help' is just as much a pain to deal with as the people who've been more blatantly aggressive. And much harder to confront.
And, since you brought it up, it's not a class issue, I grew up, like a lot of ethnic-minority people in the U.K. on a large council estate, considered so problematic it was eventually demolished. Although I dislike being put in a position where I have to display my class credentials in order to have an opinion. Also I didn't, and neither did Carol, equate understanding of/sensitivity to racism with levels of education or class background, believe me racism cuts across those categories! In fact, I feel equating prejudice with class background and levels of education is in itself potentially quite an offensive position. And as for tolerating other people's views, try that when you're being stopped and searched for no reason than your skin colour or when someone calls you something horribly offensive, or chases you in the street...And let me know how that works out for you. You may be affronted but your suggestion that those of us who don't want to tolerate prejudice, and who understand the connection between people's beliefs and values, and the kind of world we're currently living in, are the problem leaves me royally pissed. Not agreeing with or tolerating certain viewpoints isn't just about refusing to take part in an exercise to demonstrate how liberal and tolerant we are, those views lead to actions - at the very least voting patterns that have landed my country with a corrupt, right-wing government -and moving further to the right every day - increasingly high levels of violent hate crimes, a virulent far-right street-level movement that has made some areas no-go for people like me, and various other destructive behaviours, they have real-world consequences.
Carol wrote: "A Little Life must be the single most dividing line of reading preference I've encountered here and it fascinates me. In US NCAA football terms, its fans and haters have as much energy toward the other side as Auburn and Alabama fans. : ) ..."It really is! A perfect example of people landing on either side. I'm truly tickled at the thought of El hating it and preparing a scathing and well thought out review rife with quotes and humor. I love when I come across her reviews on books I just finished. I never know when she's going to pop up, and I still adore reading her views on books as I come across them. It's a great way for our conversations to continue in a way. And also nudges me to write better reviews for my friends.
I'm sorry if I made you feel bad about your comments about The Help, I really don't mean you to, and wouldn't want you to erase your comments. Be assured I take no offense at your - or anyone's - drawn lines in the sand about books. You're absolutely entitled to them, they aren't wrong, and I can be quite judgy myself about some of my friends' tastes in certain genres. You haven't unfriended me yet, so I believe myself charming enough to win you over after all and am fully aware of my own bookish faults.
Alwynne wrote: "I don't think that was what Carol intended by her comments Story, but since you're being honest about your personal response/reaction, then I should say I'm beyond tired of having to explain to white people "Alwynne, I'm so sorry. It was never my intention to cause you any distress. I've carefully read what you have written here and will try my best to learn from what you've shared.
Thank you Story, I won't pretend I'm not still annoyed because I am. But I value your friendship so I will get over it! And it's clear that something struck a nerve in Carol's post and my reply, although she really didn't say what you thought she did, and you reacted to that. And that happens to everyone from time to time.I did start to write a long reply but it doesn't seem appropriate, I would say if you have time or access then Reni Eddo-Lodge's Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race might give you an understanding of where I, and many other people of colour, in the U.K. are coming from.
I am really comfortable in this group. The upside of that is I feel a sense of belonging and, particularly because this is an off-topic chat thread, I take off my public work hat, my everywhere but Twitter social media hat, and my GR mod hat and review for tone and messaging less here. The downside is that I am aware that if I don't review for tone and add softeners and explainers, I can come across intense and be interpreted as sarcastic (! this one I've never understood because I think I compliment authentically and do humor like everyone else, but the redundant response suggests otherwise) or, without the necessary context, as attack-y. I definitely got over my skis here and understand that my comment painted with an overbroad brush. Thank you, Story, for calling it out, graciously. I'm one of those middle-aged white women who is so over the whiny nonsense and wilful ignorance of the good-hearted, well-intentioned, well-educated, middle/upper economic class, why-didn't-my-high-school-teach-me-any-of-this-history white women in my personal orbit that my inner eye-rolling outed here thoughtlessly. That's not an excuse - just an explanation of where my head was at as I typed.
As this generally, personally crappy year comes to an end, I am greatful for this group and the friends I have here. Your civility, humor, warmth and knowledge, and your willingness and ability to discuss difficult topics and themes with both passion and grace constitute a large part of my personal sustainability plan for 2022.
Who's traveling over the holidays and who's staying put? I am here, I think. Need to reach out to some friends and may travel over New Years but no plans at present.
Carol wrote: "I am really comfortable in this group. The upside of that is I feel a sense of belonging and, particularly because this is an off-topic chat thread, I take off my public work hat, my everywhere but..."I thought of mentioning the Harper Lee but thought better of it too. In the U.K. the Omicron variant's spreading rapidly - infections doubling then doubling again...and if not slowed down is predicted to overwhelm our health service by mid-January, the government is havering mainly because if they officially close things down they might have to provide financial support but the advice from our chief health advisor is to stay put and mingle as little as possible. So most people I know are staying put and cancelling indoor gatherings, fortunately I have a large stock of thermals. So think it will be a quiet Christmas here.
Story wrote: " This week's question Has a book ever brought you closer to another person, or conversely, come between you? If so, what book was it and why do you think it caused a change in your feelings?"
When I first read this question I didn't plan to answer because I could not think of a circumstance worth sharing. Having read the discussion on this, I feel a little like I want to comment on the discussion that happened.
I respect everyone's right to like/dislike a book and I would never presume to judge or criticise someone for making judgment's about other people based upon them stoically defending a book that is racist or bigoted in any other way particularly if they have had to endure the dreadful experiences that we are often reading about in the works we choose in this group.
I generally prefer reading books that make me question the world that I live in, that challenge me to question what I believe in and the way the world functions. Sometimes that means reading things that make you feel really uncomfortable. I don't think we can grow as people if we don't challenge our own way of thinking.
There are heaps of lists out there about the Canon and the Top 100 books of all time etc. So we are all going to have books on our lists that may not be acceptable to someone, and our systems for rating books are also different. Some people rate on the basis of how much they enjoyed the book. Others on how well written they think it is. I'm sure there are many other ways that I can't think of as well.
I joined Goodreads because I live in a city where English is not the native language and I want to read books that fit my reading requirements and be able to discuss them with other people who enjoy reading the same type of books as me. I feel like the point of being in a bookclub is to enrich your reading experience. I learn a lot from reading the comments that people in this group post. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't. But I always think about what they have written and whether I have missed something while I was reading.
I also think we should keep in mind that sometimes we type something that we think sounds okay but someone else might interpret what we say in a way that we never intended. Tone is missing from the written comments in Goodreads, and we should also remember that phrasing can be specific to our cultural backgrounds. And I am not just referring to native and non-native speakers of English. Even within the English speaking world there are phrases that mean different things depending upon where you live.
Anyway, I wish I could say that there is a book that has connected me to someone else in my life. I've certainly seen that portrayed in film and on television I feel so envious that people have been lucky enough to have that experience. Maybe that is still to come for me.
Merry Christmas to all who celebrate. The holiday and end of year have roared to my doorstep notwithstanding my lack of readiness. The dogs are filled with exuberance and joy. Peace to you all.
Happy holidays Carol and to you all. Hopefully you’ve all gotten a good book or two if presents are part of your celebrations. Time to round out our year of reading and look forward to starting a new year of good books and discussions.
Merry Christmas to those celebrating, and enjoy the holidays everyone! :)
Happy holidays! Have a great celebration!
Merry Christmas! I hope that you are all have a wonderful and safe festive season. Here's hoping we can sneak a couple more reads in before year end.
Liesl wrote: "Merry Christmas! I hope that you are all have a wonderful and safe festive season. Here's hoping we can sneak a couple more reads in before year end."Fingers crossed, indeed.
For all who find the holiday season depressing or lonely or full of unsettling memories, I see you, too, and wish for you its quick passage into the less-freighted, non-descript January.
It’s a breezy high 60s today here. We’re at a coffee place, trying to script a difficult family conversation. My simple latte and a physical copy of the NYTimes help. Any of my friends with ADHD will understand the multi-tasking to reduce distraction approach. :)
What are you all up to today?
We've had a rubbish Christmas. A poorly dog in hospital after already losing 2 this year and then had to isolate, so basically Christmas was cancelled. Today we're packing the car up to run away to the woods in scotland (with 1 recovering and 1 elderly dog in tow) to escape the fireworks and get some well needed r&rCarol, I know you've had a tough year and it sounds like you've got more challenges approaching. Thinking of you and hoping you can also get to some r&r soon x
I am so sorry to hear that, Hannah and Carol. May the new year be a lot better for you and us all.
I am soory for your dogs Hannah, I really am. Carol I am sorry you are struggling at the moment, I hope things will improve soon. The holidays are strange for us as well, the second year in a row thar no family member could visit us from Greece. It is just the four of us, six with our cats, but the kids loved it so far, "Santa" brought what they asked for and we spent a couple of days in London, so we are good!
I hope you all enjoy the following festive days and that we all have a wonderful year!
The past few days, I've been planning my reading goals and challenges for 2022 and its been quite fun!
So here we are on the 2022 side of things. What's everyone up to? I'm gobsmacked that it's the 18th of the month (!!!). I am very much looking forward to the Olympics because I'm a winter Olympics fan through and through. I am also starting off the year by reading authors I know I like, as one tactic in avoiding another Year of Abandoning Books, as indicated by the sheer volume of books I started last year and ditched between pps 20 - 75. If you're a Millions Most Anticipated Fan, what did you see in the first half list that newly excited you?
If you're a resolutions-oriented person, how are your goals working out for you so far?
If you live with ADHD and read self-help stuff from time to time, I recommend checking this out. Not that I've actually tried it yet. In the interest of transparency.
https://jamesclear.com/how-to-stop-pr...
Carol wrote: "So here we are on the 2022 side of things. What's everyone up to? I'm gobsmacked that it's the 18th of the month (!!!). I am very much looking forward to the Olympics because I'm a winter Olympics ..."We moved house last Wednesday so my reading has taken a big hit during the first two weeks of the month. Yesterday I finally managed to get some reading done so hopefully things will get back to normal soon.
What is a Millions Most Anticipated Fan?
I wondered about that too Liesl, so Auntie Google told me it was a list of most anticipated books for the next year or a half. With a quick scroll I found Violeta by Isabel Allende and Learning to Talk by Hilary Mantel. I rarely look at new books though, as I can´t get them so quickly at my libraries, and refrain from buying new books.But yes to the Winter Olympics! I like to watch them too. :)
My goals usually get lost among all the interesting group reads, and I haven´t even managed any book in the quarterly challenge here too. Also some Netgalley reads to review or rather read before. ;) One of them is Manifesto: On Never Giving Up by Bernardine Evaristo in German, which will appear soon.
Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: "So here we are on the 2022 side of things. What's everyone up to? I'm gobsmacked that it's the 18th of the month (!!!). I am very much looking forward to the Olympics because I'm a wi..."The Millions often draws the same readership as LitHub, but up a notch on the literary fiction emphasis.
https://themillions.com/2022/01/most-...
I tend to suffer from impostor syndrome when I read their articles, but the first-half/second-half preview articles are high-value.
did the move go okay? I'm the sort that feels overwhelmed by moves, does great on the day of, but once we're in - still has moving boxes from every move since 1973 somewhere in my residence...
Michaela wrote: "I wondered about that too Liesl, so Auntie Google told me it was a list of most anticipated books for the next year or a half. With a quick scroll I found Violeta by [author:Isabel ..."I use the new release lists to bury my library in "suggestions for purchases" submissions, and also getting on hold lists sooner rather than later, but I totally hear you.
I just saw a reference to the Evaristo this morning for the first time! I look forward to hearing what you think of it. I still have Mr. Loverman across the room in my "someday soon" pile.
Carol wrote: "Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: "So here we are on the 2022 side of things. What's everyone up to? I'm gobsmacked that it's the 18th of the month (!!!). I am very much looking forward to the Olympics be..."Uff! My TBR list just grew by about 20 books. I was very excited to see Sea of Tranquility by Emily St. John Mandel as I thoroughly enjoyed Station Eleven.
Others that I thought might fit into one of our challenges or monthly themes, or just sounded fascinating, included: Present Tense Machine by Gunnhild Øyehaug; Glory by NoViolet Bulawayo; The Stars Are Not Yet Bells by Hannah Lillith Assadi; Defenestrate by Renee Branum; Eleutheria by Allegra Hyde; Probably Ruby by Lisa Bird-Wilson and Strangers I Know by Claudia Durastanti.
Carol wrote "did the move go okay? I'm the sort that feels overwhelmed by moves, does great on the day of, but once we're in - still has moving boxes from every move since 1973 somewhere in my residence... "
I've been guilty of doing that many times but we decided to downsize from a house to an apartment so I've spent many months decluttering and I am about 2 boxes from being completely unpacked. So far, everything is wonderful and I am really glad we decided to do this.
Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: "Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: "So here we are on the 2022 side of things. What's everyone up to? I'm gobsmacked that it's the 18th of the month (!!!). I am very much looking forward to t..."Loud applause to you, friend. That's a big win.
Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: "Liesl wrote: "Carol wrote: "So here we are on the 2022 side of things. What's everyone up to? I'm gobsmacked that it's the 18th of the month (!!!). I am very much looking forward to t..."Ah Liesl, what have you done to me and my TBR - ALL of these sound unmissable!
New Question: (shamelessly borrowing from the 21st Century Lit group, even though Story's the Official Question Queen)Tell us about your avatar, the image you use for your GR profile? Is it a pic of you? If not, what is it and what meaning does it have for you? How long have you used it?
I love hearing about the origin of my friends' GR avatars. I used a selfie for a brief period of time when I set up my account, but it made me feel vulnerable, primarily because it's really, really important to me to not have folks who know me on other platforms or professionally identify this account as "me", otherwise, I'd never be able to really be me here. So I found an artist whose work I liked (konstantin razumov) and replaced the photo with the first of several avatars of his paintings. I used to change my avatar every 3 - 4 months, but found that it's confusing to me when other GR friends change up their avatars and reduces contacts from friends until they figure out that the new art represents my account, so I stopped changing it 2 - 3 years ago.
Here is a good presentation of multiple of his paintings.
https://artliveandbeauty.blogspot.com...
Carol wrote: "Here is a good presentation of multiple of his paintings. One is NSFW."If you scroll down, there are a lot more that are NSFW ;)
I believe I already told you that I love your avatar.
Mine is the 'Summer' cabinet from 'The Four Seasons' by Dutch realist painter Matthijs Röling, see https://museumtv.nl/de-jaargetijden-v... . I love these, and I picked 'Summer' because red is my favourite colour, and it also shows two kusudamas (the geometric balls). (I am a fan of origami.)
Mine was taken over from my Twitter avi when I joined GR. I always had a bad conscience to have a man in the Women group, but I think I wouldn´t even know how to change it. ;)Anyway, it shows my favourite actor, Richard Armitage, who also did a lot of audiobooks, here in one of his early roles that made him famous, as John Thornton in the BBC series of North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell.
lethe wrote: "Carol wrote: "Here is a good presentation of multiple of his paintings. One is NSFW."If you scroll down, there are a lot more that are NSFW ;)
I believe I already told you that I love your avata..."
That's so cool! I could lose myself in that website for ... some time.
Michaela wrote: "Mine was taken over from my Twitter avi when I joined GR. I always had a bad conscience to have a man in the Women group, but I think I wouldn´t even know how to change it. ;)Anyway, it shows my f..."
I've been wondering who he is for awhile. (I should have dropped the photo into Google but was too lazy.) thanks for solving the mystery. DM me if you ever want to change your photo, but I'm not recommending or suggesting you should. Avatars hold so many indicia and gender is a quite small bit of the overall window they provide into friends' likes and choices.
Are guys not really welcome here then...?My profile pic is one I made when I started transitioning (ftm), I don't really have many pictures of myself that I like yet. But if people feel uncomfortable with me participating here I'll join another group, just let me know.
Jasper wrote: "Are guys not really welcome here then...?My profile pic is one I made when I started transitioning (ftm), I don't really have many pictures of myself that I like yet. But if people feel uncomforta..."
Everyone's welcome Jasper.
Michaela wrote: "Mine was taken over from my Twitter avi when I joined GR. I always had a bad conscience to have a man in the Women group, but I think I wouldn´t even know how to change it. ;)Anyway, it shows my f..."
FWIW I recognised him from North and South, but don't remember seeing him in anything else.
Jasper, you're fine, and I like your avatar. What is the name of your cat?
Alright, good to know! Ozsaur, my cat's name is Marguerite, she's very sweet <3
Welcome Jasper, didn´t want to discourage you. :)
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This really makes me chuckle! I won't even read The Silent Patient because of your review Carol, but alas you weren't there for me before I read The Help, and I loved it at the time! I have tears in my eyes thinking about this.
We are always evolving, and where we are in different stages of our lives firmly affects how we recieve books when we read them. Reading is a conversation between the author and the reader, and the environment - setting both mental and physical - are contributing factors to that conversation. I'm not worried about it, everyone has something. There are plenty of books I've read and loved that I wouldn't be able to bear if I opened them up today, and some that I can only bear because of my earlier sentiment carrying me through.
But to answer your question Story, I can say quite honestly that the books we've read together in this book club have made me many friends - even if they express disdain for my taste in certain books (I'm laughing, really).
I have one book, A Little Life, that has forever been welded to the memory of a goodreads friend who passed away right after we read it together in another book club. I'll never get to read her review, and I know she was writing a good one because she knew I loved it and she either loved it too, or absolutely hated it. It makes me laugh to think the chances are 50/50 - could be either way (although I do imagine she hated it sometimes just so I can try and imagine which parts she would have torn apart in her scathing non-published review) and that's just how friendships go on goodreads.