Reading 1001 discussion
This topic is about
How Late It Was, How Late
Past BOTM discussions
>
How Late It Was, How Late By Kelman Nov BOTM
date
newest »
newest »
1. The first sentence describes waking in a corner trying to remember how you got there and why everything hurts. From here the novel progresses to tell the story of Sammy Samuels and how after a police beating he is left blind. The message appears to predict and bleak story and while there are moments of humour that is probably accurate.
2. I liked it, yes the reader does need to pay attention because if you are not familiar with the dialect you can work words out based on context and yes it does pull you deeper into Scotland.
3. Blindness makes Sammy vulnerable he needs to rely on his other senses and other people, it also adds to the paranoia of the main character are you really alone or are you being watched. If Sammy could see you wouldn't have this story at all.
4. I didn't notice that while reading and looking back I still wouldn't consider it rap or hip-hop. I noticed the repetition and the swearing but also the making up of his own lyrics largely related to country music and the kind of story country music is famous for telling.
5. It is important to the character Sammy wouldn't be Sammy without all the swearing. Personally I could live with a few less C words and I don't think that would damage the story.
6. Violent in the sense of police brutality, Sammy is beaten which causes the blindness, violent in the underlying vulnerability as a reader I was never sure if Sammy was going to meet with harm. Violent in the way the underworld is very much there hovering in the background and violent in the way disability is treated.
7. We never see Helen we only hear from Sammy and it appears that his drinking may have driven them apart, he admits to a major row and the fact Helen is now missing may indicate foul play. The fact he can't see means he can't investigate himself what has happened but other than that I don't think it has an impact.
8. Switching from first to third person we are watching Sammy at the same time as we are Sammy. The novel reads most like SOC to me and for that we are fully immersed in Sammy's head.
9. Perhaps in contrast to the usual mainstream heroes why shouldn't the reader root for someone like Sammy your kind of Everyman, flawed but trying to do his best.
10. If there are I missed them and not being Scottish I don't feel I can comment. What I did notice was that it was more a lack of will to take on the police for brutality rather than anything against the blind.
11. His use of the Scottish vernacular he is saying to readers you adapt to my language I am not adapting it to you.
12. I have no idea normally you can spot the title somewhere in the book but in this case I missed it. My best guess would be it related to being out drunk in the early hours of the morning.
2. I liked it, yes the reader does need to pay attention because if you are not familiar with the dialect you can work words out based on context and yes it does pull you deeper into Scotland.
3. Blindness makes Sammy vulnerable he needs to rely on his other senses and other people, it also adds to the paranoia of the main character are you really alone or are you being watched. If Sammy could see you wouldn't have this story at all.
4. I didn't notice that while reading and looking back I still wouldn't consider it rap or hip-hop. I noticed the repetition and the swearing but also the making up of his own lyrics largely related to country music and the kind of story country music is famous for telling.
5. It is important to the character Sammy wouldn't be Sammy without all the swearing. Personally I could live with a few less C words and I don't think that would damage the story.
6. Violent in the sense of police brutality, Sammy is beaten which causes the blindness, violent in the underlying vulnerability as a reader I was never sure if Sammy was going to meet with harm. Violent in the way the underworld is very much there hovering in the background and violent in the way disability is treated.
7. We never see Helen we only hear from Sammy and it appears that his drinking may have driven them apart, he admits to a major row and the fact Helen is now missing may indicate foul play. The fact he can't see means he can't investigate himself what has happened but other than that I don't think it has an impact.
8. Switching from first to third person we are watching Sammy at the same time as we are Sammy. The novel reads most like SOC to me and for that we are fully immersed in Sammy's head.
9. Perhaps in contrast to the usual mainstream heroes why shouldn't the reader root for someone like Sammy your kind of Everyman, flawed but trying to do his best.
10. If there are I missed them and not being Scottish I don't feel I can comment. What I did notice was that it was more a lack of will to take on the police for brutality rather than anything against the blind.
11. His use of the Scottish vernacular he is saying to readers you adapt to my language I am not adapting it to you.
12. I have no idea normally you can spot the title somewhere in the book but in this case I missed it. My best guess would be it related to being out drunk in the early hours of the morning.
Mod
2. Kelman has chosen to use the Glaswegian dialect rather than standard English. How does this affect the reader? Does it help create a stronger Scottish atmosphere pulling the reader into Sammy's world? Does it make the reader pay more attention to the language being used? Why did Kelman make this choice? Lucky it wasn't too hard to follow. The excessive use of swearing and jargon did however. Some of the terms were unfamiliar and mostly guessed at. With the use of stream of consciousness and the setting, the use of the Glaswegian dialect added realism to the story.
3. What are the roles of blindness in the novel? Would Sammy's predicament and experiences be very different if he could see? The blindness is interesting, this is a story of a sudden disability and the struggle to deal with it. It is a realistic look at the struggle of blindness. If Sammy could see, the story would be entirely different and probably not special in any way. The blindness captures the struggle, the difficulty navigating systems of the government.
4. Many critics suggest that the language in How Late It Was, How Late is comparable to rap and hip-hop because Kelman uses the same unrelenting vulgarity even some of the same refrains ("Know what I'm sayin"). Kelman readily accepts this parallel. Discuss how his language meets this analogy and where it doesn't work. I don't like a lot of swearing in books but when I paid attention to the authors use of the vulgarity. When Sammy is alone and his thoughts wander, there is a fair amount of vulgarity. When his son visits, the vulgarity is slightly less, when Ally tells him to clean up the language, there is evidence by the author that the use is excessive and would be off putting to the public. It ended up being a good literary device. However, it was tedious to the reader.
5.How important is profanity to the text? Would the novel change if there were fewer obscenities? See my note above.
6. Critics have described How Late It Was, How Late as a violent text. How can it be violent when there are no guns or knives and there is no brawling? The violence is there. The beating that caused such damage. We never really get to see Sammy with our eyes and can only imagine how awful he must of looked and felt. There is also the violence of a social system, political system, legal system that wants to ignore and now help Sammy.
7. Discuss Sammy's relationship with Helen in the novel. How does his rage toward his blindness interfere with this relationship? I don't think I can answer this except that being blind, Sammy is unable to know if Helen left a note or if there are any clues to where she might be and also makes it difficult for him to find her besides he is probably too busy just trying to navigate his own "new" world. I kept thinking something bad happened to Helen, after all it is her place. Why did she leave a place she is financially responsible for for so long. It is a piece of the story that is never answered.
8. One of Kelman's great skills is taking his readers inside the complex mind of his blind character. One critic described this phenomenon by saying, "We think along with him, probing our way with a homemade white stick and a crude yet resourceful intelligence." What tools does Kelman use to produce this effect? Stream of consciousness is how we spend so much time in Sammy's head. And because Sammy can't see, neither can we. We have no idea where he is, whether he is in danger. We are helpless just like Sammy is helpless.
9. Why does Kelman create a hero like Sammy, a blind, alcoholic ex-convict, who has so many strikes against him? Sammy is a person that is basically lost in society. He can't navigate, he is a convict which makes it hard to find support, He probably appears dirty and people would avoid him.
10. The welfare bureaucracy in How Late It Was, How Late persecutes Sammy rather than helps him. Are there any clues in the text as to why Kelman's vision of society is so grim? not really. I suspect that Sammy lacked skills to know how to get results and besides he is blind. He can't judge what is happening because he can't read any of the cues. I think he needed a rep but we don't even know if Ally is a rep or if he is someone trying to take advantage of the blind man.
11. In his acceptance speech for the Booker Prize Kelman said, "My culture and my language have the right to exist and no one has the authority to dismiss that right." How does Kelman make his culture exist on the page? How does he ensure that it is not dismissed? The use of Glaswegian dialect mostly.
12. Why did Kelman choose to call his book How Late It Was, How Late? How does the title relate to the novel? Well, it is too late for Sammy to turn his life around. He has all these consequences but I am not sure that is what the author means by the title or if it is about having to get away, get out of the predicament. It's too late to make a right relationship with Helen, she is gone. It is too late to have a relationship with his son who is obviously close by. It's too late to get a good job and be a productive member of society. It is all "too late".
1. How does the opening sentence set the stage for the action of the novel? What kind of tone and message does this sentence prescribe?I thought it was a great opening paragraph because you find yourself totally confused, as our main character is totally confused. The setting of an alleyway in an urban environment and a character who is clearly messed up sets the reader up for really wanting to know more. Who is this person and how did he get there. Besides the likely explanation that he was drunk, what lead to his waking in a alleyway?
2. Kelman has chosen to use the Glaswegian dialect rather than standard English. How does this affect the reader? Does it help create a stronger Scottish atmosphere pulling the reader into Sammy's world? Does it make the reader pay more attention to the language being used? Why did Kelman make this choice?
Yes, the language is one of the strongest aspects of the book. It has a very limited vocabulary, it doesn't often reference anything outside the immediate environments or activities, it is repetitive but not in a rhythmic way. It placed me in Sammy's head. I really don't know much about Scotland so it didn't necessarily place me there but it definitely put me into Sammy's head effectively.
3. What are the roles of blindness in the novel? Would Sammy's predicament and experiences be very different if he could see?
Yes, I agree with Book and Kristel that blindness is the essence of the book. Sammy's vulnerability, his inability to navigate the streets and the government offices, his paranoia are all amplified by his blindness. Yet the book also uses Sammy's blindness as a metaphor as we are all vulnerable, and all have difficulty navigating government offices.
4. Many critics suggest that the language in How Late It Was, How Late is comparable to rap and hip-hop because Kelman uses the same unrelenting vulgarity even some of the same refrains ("Know what I'm sayin"). Kelman readily accepts this parallel. Discuss how his language meets this analogy and where it doesn't work.
I actually didn't think it worked rhythmically the way rap and hip-hop does. It was unrelenting but it was not constrained by needing to hit the beats. The vulgarity was not pleasant but I began to become numb to it after awhile. It was just how Sammy's mind worked.
5.How important is profanity to the text? Would the novel change if there were fewer obscenities?
Well, if Sammy spoke in an upper class posh way, it would not have been the same story at all. No, the language was necessary to give the reader a key insight into Sammy's being. His street/pub/criminal/jail vernacular placed us in the paranoid and very limited world that Sammy existed in. His world was ugly, his language was ugly, but he did have some optimistic and light hearted moments which his language was well able to capture.
6. Critics have described How Late It Was, How Late as a violent text. How can it be violent when there are no guns or knives and there is no brawling?
The police clearly beat up Sammy so that was violent. Otherwise, I think the violence is the violence of the language, of the street, of a paranoid man.
7. Discuss Sammy's relationship with Helen in the novel. How does his rage toward his blindness interfere with this relationship?
Again, I agree with Book and Kristel. His blindness prevents him from finding out more about Helen but his rage toward his blindness does not seem to interfere with his feelings about her. I liked the way the book indicated foul play, perhaps even that Sammy hurt her but left us very much in the dark, as Sammy was in the dark.
8. One of Kelman's great skills is taking his readers inside the complex mind of his blind character. One critic described this phenomenon by saying, "We think along with him, probing our way with a homemade white stick and a crude yet resourceful intelligence." What tools does Kelman use to produce this effect?
Kelman was masterful in only very rarely letting us step outside of Sammy's head. We were as blind as Sammy was, and we had no way of knowing if he was overreacting in regards his paranoia or overreacting to the bureaucracy of the government offices or even overreacting to his pride and wanting to do things for himself.
9. Why does Kelman create a hero like Sammy, a blind, alcoholic ex-convict, who has so many strikes against him?
Again, one of the masterful things that Kelman pulls off in this book is that he gives us an alcoholic, paranoid, criminal, foulmouthed, prideful being that we are forced to live inside of and he manages to make us cheer on Sammy's finding his way to the bus stop, and his desire to optimistically start over (and run away from his criminal friends). He clearly loved Helen on some level and he clearly loves his son. In this way, Kelman is able to have us understand that the broader context of the book. In having us understand this one man, we are able to understand a host of issues about people and their environments in general.
10. The welfare bureaucracy in How Late It Was, How Late persecutes Sammy rather than helps him. Are there any clues in the text as to why Kelman's vision of society is so grim?
I probably missed any Scotland specific clues, but much of the grimness I experienced came from Sammy having pride and paranoia. He didn't trust others to help and he didn't want "help", he wanted what was coming to him. He was happy to take the 'giro' but he didn't want to take a charity stick. Bureaucracies everywhere are very difficult to navigate.
11. In his acceptance speech for the Booker Prize Kelman said, "My culture and my language have the right to exist and no one has the authority to dismiss that right." How does Kelman make his culture exist on the page? How does he ensure that it is not dismissed?
Well, winning a Booker prize probably helps.....
12. Why did Kelman choose to call his book How Late It Was, How Late? How does the title relate to the novel?
I agree with Kristel, that it probably refers to Sammy's realization that his luck and his fate have conspired to prevent him from ever having "the good life" even if in a small way, like having a real home with Helen. So many things he could have done differently but now it is just too late. And yet, he perseveres. It is not too late to try again. However, once outside of Sammy's mind, i.e. at the end of the book, I found myself thinking yep, "it really is too late".
1. It set the rambling monologue narration of the story, as well it is full of confusion and without explanation of what is going on, which fits quite accordingly with Sammy’s state after waking up post police brutality. 2. I liked the use of the Glaswegian dialect, it puts the reader into an authentic sense of the place and the people. Unabashed Scottish-ness also works well in a narrative about oppressive power structures keeping a Scottish man down.
3. On a literal level, the plot is dependent on his blindness. But it also plays into a theme of Sammy’s kind of listless wandering through life, and also possibly (maybe I’m reading too much of a Scottish identity theme into this) what senses of themselves people lose when they lose autonomy on a cultural/political level.
4. It works in the way already described by the question. It also relates to a story dealing with police brutality- a theme that is often pervasive in rap music as well. It doesn’t work where the language gets less lyrical on and off.
5. I think it is important in that it’s sincere to the language that characters of that background and predicament would actually use. It also gives a sense raw anger that makes sense with the themes and events in the story. This book without vulgarity would seem inorganic- like it’s been intentionally censored for propriety and would lack authenticity.
6. There’s something about it that seems violent in its worldview. Even though the police brutality happens before the action of the novel, the sense of injustice towards the poor and working class Glaswegians in the novel feels violently oppressive. I think it was really successful on this front.
7. Something that was interesting for me is that Helen is actually noticeably absent in the novel. He lives at her place, tries to find her place of work, but no dice. I think could play into the blindness as a stand in for what you can’t see in your life metaphor. Maybe he does have a relationship- but he doesn’t really see her where she is supposed to be in his life.
8. The effect of really getting into Sammy’s head was done well by only describing things as he can perceive him. None of the things he can’t see are given to the reader, so we have to perceive events as he does.
9. I think Sammy makes a good hero for a story like this in that it eschews the idea of the ‘perfect victim”. It makes the point that people should not have to prove they are ideal or perfect or even good to deserve to not be victims of police brutality or receive basic compassionate public services.
10. Similar to other things I’ve said here: I think Kelman paints a grim vision of society here in order to make a stark point about socio-economic oppression. The level of barriers Sammy experiences shows why so many people who should be able to use these services easily end up like Sammy. I think it was effective.
11. I think I’ve covered this already? Also do not feel paranoid about the importance of blindness that I spoke about earlier.
12. I really like Gail’s answer for this one and agree. It’s very: I know the dreams are dawning on my life- but how closely? How badly?
1. The opening sentence is Sammy's stream of consciousness thoughts as he regains consciousness after who knows what? He doesn't know where he is or how he got there and neither does the reader. We only know Sammy's world through his thoughts. We are as confused as Sammy - which is the tone of the whole novel.2. Sammy's language is limited and crude. although it becomes clear that Sammy is not stupid. His use of repetition and meaningless phrases "you know what I mean?" becomes aggravating as the reader realises the limitations of Sammy's experience. I did not find the language difficult to follow at all, which is surprising, as on my first visit to Scotland I needed my son-in-law to translate for me because I could not understand anything that was said!
3. Sammy's helplessness and his resourcefulness in the face of his sudden blindness would not have been as dramatic if his disability had been different. His blindness represents his lack of "vision" for ways of changing his circumstances.
4. I confess to knowing very little about either rap or hip hop, the lyrics of which are usually incomprehensible to me. I have great difficulty understanding interviews with American basketball players, too! The language, however, has rhythm and lots of repetition, so I suspect the analogy is apt. I did not find the language offensive. Swearing is so prevalent in many milieux!
5. I believe that the swearing was authentic. People really do talk like Sammy, have limited vocabulary, like Sammy, and have few cultural references, like Sammy.
6. Sammy provokes a group of off duty police and is so severely beaten up that he loses his sight. That is violent!
7. Sammy confesses to not understanding women. He tells Helen how he ended up in jail in an effort to come clean, in order to strengthen his relationship with her and she, inexplicably to him, becomes silent and then they have a big fight. He has so much to contend with when he regains consciousness after his bender and subsequent beat up, that he only periodically thinks of Helen and the reader is kept guessing about what has happened to her. When he turns up at her work to see her and is not allowed in, there is a clue that she is OK but distancing herself from him.
8. The effect of being inside Sammy's head with him is produced by never wavering from Sammy's point of view, so that we can only guess what is really happening by Sammy's perceptions, real or imaginary.
9. Kelman is revealing the life of an oppressed person. Sammy really did not have bad intentions, but by both bad luck and bad management he had had to endure two stints in prison, which effected him enormously. Kelman is showing what life could be like for a person in Sammy's circumstances, and showing it so vividly that we are cheering for him as he bravely tried to navigate his world.
10. The nightmare interview with the doctor who deliberately provokes Sammy, and Sammy's inability to express himself adequately display Kelman's antipathy towards the bureaucratic welfare system.
11. He is a very gifted writer who depicts the milieu with depressing clarity.
12. The title reveals the reality of Sammy's predicament.
1. How does the opening sentence set the stage for the action of the novel? What kind of tone and message does this sentence prescribe?It sets the stage for how the main character ended up in that situation. It offers a bleak outlook for what's to come.
2. Kelman has chosen to use the Glaswegian dialect rather than standard English. How does this affect the reader? Does it help create a stronger Scottish atmosphere pulling the reader into Sammy's world? Does it make the reader pay more attention to the language being used? Why did Kelman make this choice?
I liked this, even if it did make it more difficult to read. It helps to identify with the main characters and get into their world.
3. What are the roles of blindness in the novel? Would Sammy's predicament and experiences be very different if he could see?
It adds to the book and is essential to the story. It also has multiple meanings. The story would not be as interesting without his experiences as a person who is blind.
4. Many critics suggest that the language in How Late It Was, How Late is comparable to rap and hip-hop because Kelman uses the same unrelenting vulgarity even some of the same refrains ("Know what I'm sayin"). Kelman readily accepts this parallel. Discuss how his language meets this analogy and where it doesn't work.
I didn't really consider this before. I guess I can see this. .
5.How important is profanity to the text? Would the novel change if there were fewer obscenities?
While I don't care for excessive profanity in books, I can see how it was mostly necessary in this case. It was necessary to the story and the main character's background and environment.
6. Critics have described How Late It Was, How Late as a violent text. How can it be violent when there are no guns or knives and there is no brawling?
You don't need weapons for violence. This book had assault and battery, verbal assault, etc.
7. Discuss Sammy's relationship with Helen in the novel. How does his rage toward his blindness interfere with this relationship?
Their relationship is dysfunctonal. His rage toward his blindness does interfere. Not only can he not see her physically, he wouldn't be able to see her much with sight since she is usually absent.
9. Why does Kelman create a hero like Sammy, a blind, alcoholic ex-convict, who has so many strikes against him?
He created a character that is disporportionately receiving injustices. He is rough around the edges and far from perfect, but a very sympathetic character.
10. The welfare bureaucracy in How Late It Was, How Late persecutes Sammy rather than helps him. Are there any clues in the text as to why Kelman's vision of society is so grim?
It is a way of showing how disadvantaged individuals are often victims of the system. Often times these programs created to help people often make their situation worse.
11. In his acceptance speech for the Booker Prize Kelman said, "My culture and my language have the right to exist and no one has the authority to dismiss that right." How does Kelman make his culture exist on the page? How does he ensure that it is not dismissed?
By using his local vernacular and themes specific to Scotland.
12. Why did Kelman choose to call his book How Late It Was, How Late? How does the title relate to the novel?
The realization by the character that it is too late for him to achieve happiness and normalcy in his life.
2. Kelman has chosen to use the Glaswegian dialect rather than standard English. How does this affect the reader? Does it help create a stronger Scottish atmosphere pulling the reader into Sammy's world? Does it make the reader pay more attention to the language being used? Why did Kelman make this choice?
3. What are the roles of blindness in the novel? Would Sammy's predicament and experiences be very different if he could see?
4. Many critics suggest that the language in How Late It Was, How Late is comparable to rap and hip-hop because Kelman uses the same unrelenting vulgarity even some of the same refrains ("Know what I'm sayin"). Kelman readily accepts this parallel. Discuss how his language meets this analogy and where it doesn't work.
5.How important is profanity to the text? Would the novel change if there were fewer obscenities?
6. Critics have described How Late It Was, How Late as a violent text. How can it be violent when there are no guns or knives and there is no brawling?
7. Discuss Sammy's relationship with Helen in the novel. How does his rage toward his blindness interfere with this relationship?
8. One of Kelman's great skills is taking his readers inside the complex mind of his blind character. One critic described this phenomenon by saying, "We think along with him, probing our way with a homemade white stick and a crude yet resourceful intelligence." What tools does Kelman use to produce this effect?
9. Why does Kelman create a hero like Sammy, a blind, alcoholic ex-convict, who has so many strikes against him?
10. The welfare bureaucracy in How Late It Was, How Late persecutes Sammy rather than helps him. Are there any clues in the text as to why Kelman's vision of society is so grim?
11. In his acceptance speech for the Booker Prize Kelman said, "My culture and my language have the right to exist and no one has the authority to dismiss that right." How does Kelman make his culture exist on the page? How does he ensure that it is not dismissed?
12. Why did Kelman choose to call his book How Late It Was, How Late? How does the title relate to the novel?