The Jealous One by Celia Fremlin (Feb 2022)

[Roman Clodia]

*weaponising*, I meant

[Susan]

Yes, I think it is more interesting that Rosamund is not too sympathetic.

Oh, the bear! Goodness. Yes, the cake one-upmanship reminded me of that. I swear, it started off going to swimming lessons and picnics and ended up photographed ballooning over the desert! It was very funny at the time, but some mothers really did feel the pressure, to the point where, if they got the bear they were in a complete tizzy about what delights they could pretend to be getting up to :)

[Nigeyb]

Whilst Rosamund is not a sympathetic character I feel very sympathetic towards her and what is happening to her.

Despite this Celia Fremlin always provides an element of doubt. It's possible (though seemingly unlikely) that this is all in Rosamund's head. We only view events from her perspective.

The genius is that nothing Lindy does is outwardly wrong. On one level she's just a very sociable, garalous and energetic neighbour who has enhanced life for most of the people with whom she comes into contact.

[Nigeyb]

Susan wrote:


"...some mothers really did feel the pressure, to the point where, if they got the bear they were in a complete tizzy about what delights they could pretend to be getting up to :)..."

This is where photoshop could have helped

The bear could have been placed next to Vladimir Putin or whoever, or sent back in time, or anywhere in the world (perhaps this is how the desert shot was done?)

That way it would become more of a joke and the pressure might have been released for other participants?

[Roman Clodia]

Haha, today the bear would have it's own Twitter and Instagram accounts!

[Judy]

Interesting thought about not being on anyone's side, RC. I was on Norah's side at the meal early on - her husband is so rude. And also starting to feel sympathy for Eileen although I don't know much about her yet.

[Jill]

Maybe the gnome would have liked a companion. A teddy bear is always welcomed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travell....

[Judy]

I've finished now - I enjoyed the writing style and found it entertaining, but did have one or two problems with the plot, which I'll keep quiet about until we get on to spoilers.

[Nigeyb]

You've finished in under five hours - bravo Judy


I have read a bit more this afternoon but have no additional comments yet

[Judy]

Nigeyb wrote: "You've finished in under five hours - bravo Judy


I have read a bit more this afternoon but have no additional comments yet"

Thank you, Nigeyb! Not quite, as I started a while before posting about it! But it has been a wet day and I've had lots of time for reading :)

[Nigeyb]

I finished last night


Very enjoyable. I'll review, and comment more later

[Nigeyb]

As I state in my review....



It's another Fremlin masterclass as she slowly increases the tension. The last few pages are gripping.

As with other Fremlin novel's, if there's a weakness it lies in the slightly anti-climactic final reveal. That said, if you are interested in a snapshot of the mid 1960s suburban English milieu, aligned to a page turner of a plot, then you will most likely be as enthralled as I was.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

4/5


I'm very glad you tempted me into this buddy read

Celia Fremlin (aka the grandmother of psycho-domestic noir) is wonderful

[Roman Clodia]

Judy wrote: "I was on Norah's side at the meal early on - her husband is so rude. And also starting to feel sympathy for Eileen"

Nigeyb wrote: "Whilst Rosamund is not a sympathetic character I feel very sympathetic towards her and what is happening to her."

Yes, you've both put your finger on that difference between a sympathetic character and empathising with their situation - I also felt for Rosamund, however smugly unpleasant she and Geoffrey are together.

Norah's husband is just breathtaking, isn't he, in both his hostility and the way he washes his hands of all responsibility for the upbringing of his son (who just sounds like a typical teenage boy to me).

This book reminded me that one huge social change that has taken place in my lifetime is paternity being socially recognised and fathers taking an active role in child-rearing. When I was a child, it was a talking point and a huge excitement if one of our dads turned up to pick us up from school because it was such a novelty. I'm sure they must have lapped up all the pandering from school-gate mums!

[Nigeyb]

Yes, good point about paternity. It's been a massive change. I barely saw my Dad at points in his life as he was working so hard. He taught me to swim and took me and my sisters to the library for a weekly trip when he could, but other than that he was a remote figure. My experience as a parent has been very different.

[Susan]

That is a good point. Fathers are so much more involved.

I also feel for the wives of those times, as everybody seemed to come home for lunch all the time, During lockdown I got utterly bored with having to think of what to provide at lunchtime (I never eat breakfast or lunch myself) and that was with my husband cooking dinner most nights!

[Roman Clodia]

Nigeyb wrote: "...and took me and my sisters to the library for a weekly trip when he could"

Yes, my dad did that, too, it was our regular Saturday afternoon trip and such a treat to be alone with my dad :)

[Roman Clodia]

Susan wrote: "I also feel for the wives of those times, as everybody seemed to come home for lunch all the time, During lockdown I got utterly bored with having to think of what to provide at lunchtime."

And not just do they come home for lunch in books but they expect something cooked, not just sandwiches.

I do sometimes feel nostalgic for the old days before Mr RC when dinner could just be soup or a salad - now he'd wolf that down and be looking for the next course!

[Susan]

My sons are like locusts, RC. It was a nightmare - I'd fill the fridge and cupboards and then peek a day later and they'd be empty!

[Roman Clodia]

Hahaha! The first time I ever cooked dinner for Mr RC I made this intricate Thai salad with a fancy peanut & coconut dressing and thought he'd be impressed. So I couldn't understand why he made an excuse to leave early... he later confessed he was so hungry after my dinner that he had to go straight to Macdonalds!

[Susan]

On one of my very early dates with my husband I 'cooked' fish which was virtually raw, with a marinade which was very burnt. The poor man ate it and said it was nice, but later admitted he was really ill afterwards! I was only about 19, but still... It took me ages to try cooking fish again.

[Nigeyb]

I do all the cooking here

[Jill]

Something you never saw some years ago, was a man pushing a pram/pushchair. If you did, he was pushing it uphill, and the mother was with him. Now you see men out on their own with the babies. They also seem to engage more with the child, whereas women out with a pram/ pushchair always seem to be more interested in their phones.

[Sid]

Finished the book. Loved it. Reviewed it: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Nigeyb]

I'm glad you found it so worthwhile Sid given your early uncertainthy

[Jill]

So pleased you liked it. One of the best authors I’ve found in years.

[Susan]

I agree, Jill, and so glad you enjoyed it, Sid.

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, glad you didn't abandon it too early Sid.

Is anyone still reading or can we talk about the ending?

[Nigeyb]

Roman Clodia wrote:


"Is anyone still reading or can we talk about the ending?"

Everyone who has posted has finished reading so I think it's safe to discuss the ending now


Just in case....

STOP READING NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT THE ENDING REVEALED - SPOILERS AHOY

[Brian E]

I haven't started the book yet as I had it marked for mid-February discussion as a Buddy Read. But, please feel free to discuss the ending. When one finishes a Fremlin it is best to discuss the ending immediately and not wait a week. I will treat this thread as a SPOILER thread and join in when I finish the book by this weekend.

I should realize by now that most on here get antsy and have already read the book by the start date. I really do know that but still timed my reading of this book to be done by mid-February. My error.

But I have finished Play it As it Lays and will start The Jealous One tomorrow so I will likely finish by this weekend. I will join in then and be able to read the many highly insightful and creative posts I have come to expect from you all. So don't disappoint me.

Again, please don't wait for me as those brilliant observations may dissipate from your aging brains if you wait.

[Roman Clodia]

Haha, if it makes you feel any better, Brian, I haven't started the Didion yet ;) But 'aging brains'? Ahem :))

[Brian E]

Nigeyb wrote: "Everyone who has posted has finished reading ..."
Not true. See Message #9 and Message #79

Nigeyb wrote: "so I think it's safe to discuss the ending now..."
But THAT part is true. So please discuss the ending. It is safe. There is even a warning label.

[Roman Clodia]

SPOILERS


So, the ending?

I thought the fevered stuff was great, especially the creepy image of Lindy sneaking in to get her handbag back... But the death-wrestle on the train was a step too far for me, and I didn't really believe it. Bitchiness was fine, but murder?

I wish we'd learned a bit more about Lindy too - it was fascinating to hear from Eileen about her makeover but it didn't really come together, I thought.

The other thing I liked was how Rosamund's perceptions of Lindy shifted: at first she was frumpy, then she was attractive and minxy, then she reverted to plain - that subjectivity was spot on, I think.

[Sid]

Yes, I agree with all that, RC. The ending felt rather anticlimactic to me - although the very last bit with the dog's behaviour being subsumed into Rosamund and Geoffrey's regained world which did not allow reference to any unpleasantness was very neat, I thought.

One of the things I really loved was Fremlin's really sharp passing observations, like the group discussing the evils of affluence - "such a delicious topic in affluent surroundings", the friend who really thought the point of the conversation with a flu-riddled Rosamund was her own heroism in looking after her family while she had a temperature of which the doctor had never seen the like... and so on and so on. She sometimes got more insight into a sentence than some authors get into a whole book, I reckon. I could certainly forgive a slightly feeble ending after that.

I'm going to spend an enjoyable day or two with Kathy Mallory next and then it's probably Didion.

[Jill]

I was totally amazed that someone could be thrown from a train and survive with just a headache. No cuts and bruises

[Nigeyb]

Brian wrote:


"Not true. See Message #9 and Message #79"

I apologise Brian

Thanks for being so understanding

[Nigeyb]

As we have observed before, it's all about the journey with Celia Fremlin - and that's fine by me

[Nigeyb]

How plausible is that notion of complete reinvention?


From frumpy to glamorous, vivacious and desirable

Possible over the short term, but surely the cracks would show pretty quickly?

What do you think?

[Susan]

The ending, where the train just - stopped - was just what would really happen, isn't it? I could imagine having all these plots and plans and then having such a let down...

[Judy]

I really enjoyed Fremlin's writing style, and loved the characters and humour, but was a bit let down by the plot twists and the ending again, as I've also felt in some of her other books.

I found the ending here pretty unbelievable all round - and earlier in the book I couldn't quite believe that Geoffrey didn't notice Rosamund being ill, however preoccupied he was! But I still really enjoyed it.

[Roman Clodia]

Nigeyb wrote: "As we have observed before, it's all about the journey with Celia Fremlin - and that's fine by me"

Yes, I'd agree with that, Nigeyb, and I can forgive the fizzle-out ending because I'd enjoyed the rest so much. As Sid says, the sharp observations are brilliant throughout and add a welcome sense of humour that balances out the tensions.

I'm still not convinced about the personality switch and there are some hints of Freudian stuff that never really get ironed out.

And yes, superb use of the dog!

[Brian E]

I too think the joy of Fremlin is that so many of her observations about everyday people and life are so sharp witty, accurate and singular. I find myself often saying 'you are so right - and so clever."
I really enjoyed this book. I didn't find the ending anti-climatic just more realistically climactic. Lindy may have been capable of impulsive murder but not a planned murder - she may be on a train but she's no Bruno.
i agree that by the end we still don't get a great picture of the forces that motivate Lindy - we only see her from others' points of view, especially Eileen and Rosamund's. Though the ending just has her fade away, Lindy really just the side show and the book is Rosamund's journey. The ending focus on Rosie, Geoff and Shang Low was both appropriate and humorous -very much in keeping with what I enjoy most about Fremlin,
I especially enjoyed the segment where Rosamund was realizing that everyone thinks she and Lindy are so much alike. Her dismay at this is humorous, a typical Fremlin observation and also tracks the thinking of the reader who, as has been pointed out on here, is empathetic but not always sympathetic to Rosie. I really like Fremlin's creation of the Rosamund character for being so complex.

[Nigeyb]

I agree with all of that Brian - very well expressed

[Brian E]

Another thing I like about Fremlin is how quickly I settle into the characters and story. Here, by page 20 I felt I already had a vivid image of Rosamund, Geoffrey, Lindy and even Shang Fu and their basic characters. I thought this one was easy to visualize and cinematic.

It had me thinking that Fremlin's books are very filmable. I couldn't find an English language one, but this is a version of The Hours Before Dawn that was an episode of The Hitchcock Hour in 1963. It's called The Lonely Hours and stars Gena Rowlands and Nancy Kelly
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f...

[Susan]

Yes, great comments, Brian. Rosamund was horrified at being commpared to Lindy, wasn't she and there's that sense of seeing ourselves as others see us and not how we see ourselves...

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, that was great when people say Lindy and Rosamund are similar partly because we've been seeing the situation through Rosamund's eyes and so we haven't seen it either. That made me wonder again about Geoffrey's crush on Lindy - maybe he was realising that similarity whether conscious or not.

Good point, too, Brian, about the difference between cold-blooded planned murder and something spontaneous. I still think the end was too rushed and tied up but that didn't spoil my enjoyment.

[Brian E]

Roman Clodia wrote: "I still think the end was too rushed and tied up but that didn't spoil my enjoyment. "

I agree that the end is rushed and tied up but any deficiency on that account was more than made up by Fremlin's choice to end the book with this paragraph:

"But it didn't matter; for Geoffrey and Rosamund soon decided that the best kind of Pekinese ALWAYS adore their masters and despise their mistresses. It became one of their things."

I really enjoyed that Fremlin chose to end her story by presenting the aspects of "Geoff and Rosie" that we readers felt made them often unsympathetic.

[Susan]

Yes although I did sympathise with Rosamund, despite her faults. I like the fact that Fremlin's characters are well rounded and realistic. It is one of the reasons I enjoy Jane Austen's female characters - indeed Austen's letters are often quite snippy and gossipy. I could sympathise with Rosamund when Linday 'popped round,' just when she thought she'd have some time to herself and insinuated herself into everything she did. The ending was a little weak, but, as Brian says, that last comment brings the whole story wonderfully back to the beginning.

I think Seven Lean Years will be the one I will read next, although I am reading far too many books at once at the moment, so it will need to wait a while.

[Roman Clodia]

I thought Fremlin got it just right in making 'Rosie and Geoff' a bit awful in a smug, suburban way but not vile so that I also empathised with Rosamund when it came to the encroachments of Lindy.

And yes, that final para is wonderful and makes an excellent point about the couple's self-created world. And sums up Fremlin's snark and sense of humour.

I was just about to say, when's our next Fremlin ;)

[Brian E]

Susan wrote: "I think Seven Lean Years will be the one I will read next, although I am reading far too many books at once at the moment, so it will need to wait a while.."

I had thought of The Trouble Makers as my next Fremlin because it was the next one in popularity. But I see that Trouble Makers was her fourth novel and Seven Lean Years (aka Wait For the Wedding in the former colonies) is her third, so it makes more sense to read Seven Lean Years first. If we eventually read both of them we will have read Fremlin's first 5 novels (and 2 others, The Long Shadow and Ghostly Stories)

Susan, as to timing: I just picked up a Cadfael mystery, which is my 5th one, one a month since my first one in October. Reading your advice that the Cadfaels are better with at least some interval of time between reads, I was thinking that after five in five months, I really should take more time before I read my 6th Cadfael.

Using that advice here, I agree we should wait a bit before reading about the next Fremlin housewife or this time I may end up wanting to kill her myself.

[Jill]

I have read Seven Lean Years and have to say it was the one I have liked least. I saw through it almost from the start.