The Color of Lightning

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Welcome to the November 2021 read of The Color Of Lightning. Very excited about this read and discussion!

[Antoinette]

When does it start, Sara? Looking forward to it as well . Loved Enemy Women!

[Terry]

I’m in, but not certain when I will start.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Antoinette wrote: "When does it start, Sara? Looking forward to it as well . Loved Enemy Women!"

November 1st. :)

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Terry wrote: "I’m in, but not certain when I will start."

I'm sure everyone will not start day one, Terry. So glad you will be joining.

[Antoinette]

I am definitely going to be reading this one, but will be a bit late starting. Have one more book I need to read first. Already saw a couple of the comments and can hardly wait to start:)

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

I know this is going to be a great discussion! I can't wait!

[Cathrine ☯️]

I loved this book but probably been too long for me to comment. I'll follow along on your discussion if I may. I'm hoping to read Enemy Women soon.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Delighted to have you chime in whenever you like, Cathrine. You might be surprised that the discussion brings details back to your mind (happens to me from time to time).

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I finished the book this morning and looking forward to discussing it. It is very powerful and I could not help thinking about it in contrast and comparison to the Guthrie books. I had thought I would take this slow, but it is a book that once you begin you will not want to come up for air until you have finished.

[Lori]

Wow! Sara that is a powerful recommendation and I'm quite excited that the Guthrie books return to mind while reading this. I hope to start today while I've got the weekend to myself.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

You are sure to love it, Lori. I found myself thinking about Guthrie more than Enemy Women, which surprised me. Have a lovely weekend!

[Antoinette]

Seems I’ll have to read Guthrie as well now. Thanks:(

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

How thrilling that you've already finished reading it, Sara, and that you share the same sentiments as I do. I only have about 20 pages to go, but I have slowed down because I don't want it to end. LOL.

Like you, Guthrie's The Big Sky series has come to my mind too as I was reading The Color Of Lightning.

I found the following article this morning while doing a little online research, but I would recommend not reading it until after you have read the book. (The Color Of Lightning is based on real people and events.) I'm including it now because I didn't want to lose the link later:

(view spoiler)[http://rebelcherokee.labdiva.com/mill... (Millie Durgan's story) (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Very interesting article, Shirley. Thank you for posting it. I wonder that they do not do DNA testing to prove/disprove the connection. I love the way Jiles weaves her story around the historical facts.

Antoinette - you will be glad we pushed you toward the Guthrie books. :)

[Sue]

Thank you for sharing that article Shirley. I'm looking forward to the discussion on this one too. I love how Jiles brings out lesser known historical aspects. Britt Johnson will forever be among my favorite literary and historical heroes.

[Terry]

I am just starting now, having finished Chapter 1 last night. I like the book so far, but can only concentrate from time to time.

To update you all, my bilateral partial knee replacements were successful. I am using a walker, able to walk up and down a corridor, but need a lot of assistance getting up and down. I am waiting for insurance approval for release to a skilled nursing home where I will stay for a week, learning how to walk more easily and take care of myself. I do a lot of sleeping. Pain is variable, depending on the meds they give me.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

So glad to hear from you, Terry. Sorry for the pain, and I know how it feels to not be able to do things, so I will be praying for a quick recovery for you! Hang in there. I think you will eventually be glad to have done this. Keep us updated on how you are doing.

[Sue]

I'm glad the surgery went well, Terry. I'm sure it's a relief to have it over. I hope that approval comes soon so that you can be walking independently and with less pain sooner.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Terry... I'm so glad you posted an update on your knee replacement surgeries. I'm glad the surgeries were successful, and you're doing well. I will keep you in my prayers that your pain levels will be managed well, and that you will be on your feet and walking soon. From what I've been told by friends and family who have had this surgery, I know you will be so glad you went through this.

Sara and Sue.. you're quite welcome for including the article about Millie Durgan. I also found one interesting one on Britt Johnson. I may try to post it later.

[Sue]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Terry... I'm so glad you posted an update on your knee replacement surgeries. I'm glad the surgeries were successful, and you're doing well. I will keep you in my prayers that your pain levels will..."

I read some things on Britt Johnson after I finished too.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Sue wrote: "Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Terry... I'm so glad you posted an update on your knee replacement surgeries. I'm glad the surgeries were successful, and you're doing well. I will keep you in my pra..."

He was fascinating, wasn't he?

[Lori]

Terry, thanks for updating us on your surgeries. I will pray for a quick turnaround to the nursing facility and that you will get all you need for a speedy recovery. Hoping you heal fast and well!

[Terry]

Thanks, Lori. It will an up and down ride fo awhile.

[Sue]

After reading Sara and Shirley's reviews I also noticed that I had never commented on Suzy's who I believe some of you know from the Southern Literary Trail Group. I believe that is how I first came to know her when she commented on my review in June after one of you did. I keep meaning to join that group because there seem to be so many good books and people in it!

Anyway, in her comment she provided this great article on Britt Johnson from the Texas Historical Association. Don't read it until you're done with the book though! Link in here (view spoiler)[ https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/e... (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Suzy is a friend of mine, Sue, but I had not read her review of this book. Thank you for sharing the link on the article. The Southern Literary Trail selected this book as a group read, but I was unable to participate that month. Always hate when I miss a good book and then take so long coming back to it. BTW, we would LOVE to have you as a member of the group--Join!!! I'm betting you know 90% of our active members.

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "Suzy is a friend of mine, Sue, but I had not read her review of this book. Thank you for sharing the link on the article. The Southern Literary Trail selected this book as a group read, but I was u..."

I think I'm going to do that right now! I may only be able to join in a few a year, but you guys seem to read such good books there.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

For those who have finished, here's a question to open the discussion. Jiles opens the book with a very violent event. Do you think this is just because this is where the story begins or is there another reason we get this graphic detail?

(view spoiler)[I couldn't help thinking as the story progressed that she opened with the traditional view of the Indian as marauders and arbitrary murderers to play into the bias and then turn it on its head in a way. They are marauders and they do murder, but the reasons and the way they think of what they are doing is so unlike the view men, even well-meaning ones like Hammond, have.

I expected this was going to be a story told from the exclusive pov of the settlers and it turned out to be as even-handed an account as could probably be imagined.She avoided both the manifest destiny and the noble savage, and simply presented the facts, which is much more effective in helping us to understand what really took place in the taming of the West.

I did think of Guthrie while reading. I wondered if Jiles had read him and if she was a fan. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Sue wrote: "I think I'm going to do that right now! I may only be able to join in a few a year, but you guys seem to read such good books there."

We do, and I have been introduced to some remarkable writers that I don't think I would have found on my own. Everyone understands that we can't participate in every read, every month, but you will be happy for whatever you can manage there. It is among the BEST groups on GR.

[Lori]

Sara is spot on, Sue! It was the first group I joined and one of my favorites!

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Sue wrote: "After reading Sara and Shirley's reviews I also noticed that I had never commented on Suzy's who I believe some of you know from the Southern Literary Trail Group. I believe that is how I first cam..."

What a great link, Sue! Thank you for posting it. It even links to another article... that one on Elizabeth.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Sara wrote: "Suzy is a friend of mine, Sue, but I had not read her review of this book. Thank you for sharing the link on the article. The Southern Literary Trail selected this book as a group read, but I was u..."

I don't know how I hadn't seen The Southern Literary Trail group before. I'm always on the hunt for southern authors/books. I'm also off to join it. Thank you for mentioning it, Sara. Also, so excited Rick Bragg has come out with another book. He is awesome!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I should have mentioned it, Shirley, but it was really Sue who brought it up. So glad she did, because the two of you will love it there and we will love having you!

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Sara wrote: "For those who have finished, here's a question to open the discussion. Jiles opens the book with a very violent event. Do you think this is just because this is where the story begins or is there a..."

Great question, Sara! That was a very hard part for me to get through. (view spoiler)[But I think it sets the scene for what the settlers were facing when they decided to occupy Kiowa (more so than Comanche) territory. Apparently, it was in the Kiowa culture to steal and kill just for the fun of it. If I read right, there were only a couple of other tribes who lived in this manner. But it showed what a difficult, almost impossible, task Hammond was facing in trying to get the Kiowa and Comanche tribes to move onto the reservations, give up their culture and adopt western ways of life. And also, that scene stayed in my mind throughout the book, not knowing if the people at Elm Creek were ever safe. (hide spoiler)]

[Lori]

So glad to see Sue and Shirley as new member at the Trail! You will love the reads we choose there!

I believe they read The Color of Lightning several years ago but it was before I joined.

I've got one more chapter before finishing and my dang iPad died! UGH!

[Sue]

So I signed up and was surprised to see that Sara is a Moderator! That makes it even better

[Sara, Old School Classics]

A brand new moderator, Sue. Still stumbling along.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Lori wrote: "So glad to see Sue and Shirley as new member at the Trail! You will love the reads we choose there!

I believe they read The Color of Lightning several years ago but it was before I joined.

I've..."

Thank you, Lori! I look forward to jumping in next month and read Rick Bragg's latest book with you. I'm trying to complete my Bingo Challenge this month.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Sara wrote: "A brand new moderator, Sue. Still stumbling along."

Congratulations, Sara!

[Terry]

I found Chapter 2 hard to read. If it were in a movie I would be hiding my eyes through the whole chapter. Perhaps because Jiles is such a good writer, I kept visualizing the words on the pages.

To update on my personal progress, I am now in a rehab facility for a week of PT.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

So glad you are in the rehab, Terry! By the end of the week you will be well on your way.

I know what you mean about Jiles writing bringing it to life. I cringed more than once, and I would NOT want to see this portrayed on a movie screen. Hopefully a good director would pull away at the right moment and leave some of it to the imagination.

I find it hard to imagine how people continue to live after these kinds of experiences...but they do. I'm afraid I would be replaying it in my head all the time.

[Cathrine ☯️]

I'm following along. I may have forgotten some things but that brutal chapter remains with me.
I can't recall which, but for those of you who have also read PJ's News of the World. There is a quick mention of Captain Kidd early in this book or the other way around with Britt getting a mention in the early pages of N of the W at one of the readings.

[Cathrine ☯️]

Jeez Terry, both knees at the same time. I didn't think that was possible.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Cathrine ☯️ wrote: "I'm following along. I may have forgotten some things but that brutal chapter remains with me.
I can't recall which, but for those of you who have also read PJ's News of the World. There is a quic..."

There is a cameo by the Captain in this novel, which was so neat...I love to find a familiar character hiding in plain view.

[Cathrine ☯️]

I just checked my review. But I'm right on both counts. Britt is also in News of the World as noted here. But don't read it if you haven't read News. I read these in reverse order so Britt did not make such a memorable impact on me the first go round.

https://www.litcharts.com/lit/news-of...

[Lori]

I finished today and loved reading this story. I had no idea about these people or these historical events, i.e. the Quakers and the Peace Policy.

I loved seeing Captain Kidd here. Is this the first book Jiles wrote him into? He makes a cameo in Simon the Fiddler and of course News is his story but it was written after this one (CoL). Makes me wonder if she created him and then decided he needed his own story.

I'm still digesting the book's events and all that happened but I noted your spoiler Sara and have to agree that (view spoiler)[this became a story of both sides and so many times I felt angry at the Indians for their vicious ways but I felt the same for the Indian agent, Hammond. I also had moments when I felt pity for the Indians because they knew only their way of life and cultivating them was near impossible at that time. It went against their nature.

It's difficult to imagine why a captive would want to stay but looking at the standpoint of Jube- he saw freedom - a different type of freedom that he'd never experienced - he felt more accepted and desired the warrior life. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Cathrine ☯️ wrote: "I just checked my review. But I'm right on both counts. Britt is also in News of the World as noted here. But don't read it if you haven't read News. I read these in reverse order so Britt did not ..."

OMG, I love that. I had no memory of it being him. I really want to read NOTW again. It has been too long.

[Lori]

Wow, Catherine! That's surprising to me that I forgot Britt was in News. Thanks for bringing this up. I'm like you and read these in reverse. Now I'll have to plan a reread of News.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

LORI: (view spoiler)[I also think the captives were generally never viewed the same, as somehow spoiled by the things they had experienced, after they were returned; whereas living with the Indians they had a place in the hierarchy and no shame attached. If they were children when taken, sometimes the Indian way was the life they knew and the strange life forced upon them was the white man's. Almost every person recovered, with the exception of Elizabeth and Mary found the transition back impossible or difficult.

I could also understand Jube's feeling freer and more of a man in the Indian camp. He had personally achieved his place there, it wasn't given to him, which was a source of pride. (hide spoiler)]

One of the things I would like to know is how you guys felt about Tissoyo...why he helped in the first place and why it ended with him as it did.

[Cathrine ☯️]

PJ did a great job of presenting both sides of atrocities committed. I've read quite a bit on this history, a favorite subject and time period of mine. This was a balanced account.

I also have read her nonfiction North Spirit: Sojourns Among the Cree and Ojibway in which she tells her own story of living among First Nations people in Northern Ontario in the 70s working as a journalist.