Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Secrets of Blackthorn Hall
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[DONE] Please merge these books
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Hi, seems like my request hasn't been addressed, could anyone take a look at it? Thank you
Want to bump this. I just came across it. It's an ongoing serialized novel. Here's the description on the fan wiki page:"Secrets of Blackthorn Hall is a multimedia, serialized novel that is being released online for free. The first piece was released on July 10, 2021, and the rest of installments are to be released weekly from August 16, 2021 to at least September 2022."
And the parts that are being posted are just pieces of it. Some of them are merely a picture of a note or a letter. Here's a link the the posts on tumblr, each of which is being added to GR as a separate entry as they're published:
https://secretsofblackthornhall.tumbl...
I'm not only wondering if the parts shouldn't be on GR, but also if the main entry should be on GR since it's an in-progress work.
Here'a a link to the series page:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/3306...
Is there currently anything know if it will be published as a complete book?
Nay wrote: "Want to bump this.THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who was concerned on this topic. I posted this case a few times back then, but I got no response.
I completely agree, it should not be in the platform. Just as you said, it's a work in progress and also all of the novel's chapters have been added as individual works. It's pointless, it's the same as adding Chapter 1 of any book as an individual work.
I moved this post to the "Superlibrarians" folder, so that one of them can check this case.
Note for the superlibrarian who's reading this: the links listed in the first comment of this post were the only entries that were added back then. As of today, the list goes over 40 individual chapters added to the database (tomorrow someone will probably add one more, as new chapters are released on Mondays). You would have to take a look at the series page to see all of them.
Renske wrote: "Is there currently anything know if it will be published as a complete book?"For know, it's only available online. The author has stated that she'd like to publish it when it's complete, but that it's uncertain. Apart from this, that's the only information we have.
I am not yet sure how this one should be handled. 'like to publish it when it's complete' is that enough to keep a single placeholder? (I think there are other books added on that little information) Has anyone a better understanding of this?In the case of a placeholder we would have a target to merge all the chapters. If not, all the chapters should be marked as Not A Book.
There is no definite information on the author's website or blog about publishing this as a potential book (really quick check, so I could have overlooked it). Where does she state that it would be published once completed?If there is enough indication that it will be published, I could see adding a placeholder, but I'm not seeing that indication yet. For me it would be NAB.
At the very least, I definitely think all the "chapter" entries should be, I suppose, merged? (if the main entry stays). Although from what I'm reading, some of these chapters are sound clips, and as I mentioned, an illustration of a letter.Regarding the project, I found an interview the author did last year: https://tmisource.com/2021/07/11/ever...
In it, they say:
The reason why it is going to be online is because there will be multimedia posts: “there’s gonna be art, there’s gonna be photographs, sound clips.”
And:
Cassie would like to make the whole project available as a PDF or something similar once it’s over. A PDF for charity might be nice so that money for a good cause could be raised. A print edition would be “complicated because of all the multimedia.”
Miriam wrote: "Where does she state that it would be published once completed?"As far as I can recall, the author has stated it (or at least she has talked about the possibility of publishing it) in some livestreams, on her Instagram comments, and probably on her newsletter as well.
Nay wrote: "Regarding the project, I found an interview the author did last year:"
That information is correct, although it's not updated. Things have changed a little bit, but it's no problem, I happen to be kind of a scholar on this author cause I run a news/fandom page about her books, so these are the most up-to-date statements:
On April 29th, 2022 she said: "I've been thinking about how to make that happen!" (About releasing the story as a traditional book)
https://twitter.com/cassieclare/statu...
On May 5th, 2022, she said: "I’m working on figuring out how to turn it into a physical book complete with pretty illustrations."
https://twitter.com/cassieclare/statu...
On May 13th, 2022, she said via newsletter: "I have heard your cries for a physical, hold-in-your-hands book of SOBH, and that is a future possibility (potentially via Kickstarter) — so stay tuned for updates."
https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=...
And here's another statement from last year: "It is a possibility in the far future." (About releasing the story as a physical book).
https://twitter.com/cassieclare/statu...
If you need more information, let me know and I will try to provide it.
As this is a work in progress, it does not qualify as a book according to Goodreads policy; see https://help.goodreads.com/s/article/... for this explanation of what does qualify as a book record:"Goodreads considers the following to be valid book records:It does not take a Super to NAB these records. There are currently 41 entries. I'm going to start on this (while the theme from the Sourcerer's Apprentice plays in my head). I'll be starting with the most recent entry (#1.40) and working my way back toward the beginning. 😏
• serialized, web-only editions that have been subsequently published as completed works"
ETA: I do like the suggestion of merging the chapters into the first entry, then NABbing that entry. That will preserve the ratings should the book be later published and un-NABbed.
Dobby wrote: "I do like the suggestion of merging the chapters into the first entry, then NABbing that entry. That will preserve the ratings should the book be later published and un-NABbed..."Thank you, Dobby!!! I'm not a librarian, but I have read the manual, and I also agree with that proposal. To me, merging all the chapters into the main work is the best option. In my mind it makes no sense to keep them all only to NAB them later. It's just like adding every chapter of Pride and Prejudice, for instance, as separate works.
Oops, seems like there are more entries, these were not added to the series:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
The series page has apparently been deleted, so I'm working from the Combine page.
Dobby wrote: "The series page has apparently been deleted, so I'm working from the Combine page."Thanks, Dobby!
Update: There are so many adds that it's taking a looong time. I've just set up another round of merges and will come back to finish up in the morning.ETA: All works have been combined into the first chapter, and that has been NABbed.
Dobby wrote: "Update: There are so many adds that it's taking a looong time. I've just set up another round of merges and will come back to finish up in the morning.ETA: All works have been combined into the f..."
Dobby--this didn't take long...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/edit/5...
Also, if we find any more of the parts of this have been added, do we just NAB them?
Dobby--before you change it again, I found a couple more that need merging by a super-librarian. I'm combining them with the main entry now.ETA: All done. Everything that's left is combined. Here's the entry on the combine page:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/combin...
Thanks, Nay. I saw that my Librarian Note had been replaced. 🙄I merged the two you'd combined; thanks for that.
After Staff has NABbed Chapter 1 again, I agree that our best course would be to NAB any new parts that get added, using the new NAB rules.
Dobby wrote: "our best course would be to NAB any new parts that get added"Well, most of the chapters were added by regular users, the new chapter will be published on Monday 20th, by that time only librarians will be able to add new book records. Hopefully that will solve this case and prevent other chapters from being added!!
Although, probably the librarian note should indicate the resolutions reached in this discussion: that the chapters are not individual short stories, that it's not a series of short stories but a novella, that the author's intentions of publishing it are not enough to consider it a proper forth-coming work, that it's a work in progress and should be NABed until there's an official releasing announcement...
Perhaps that will prevent librarians and staff from undoing what you did.
Hello, a new record for this book has been added https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9... should it be nabed or the other record made public again and merged? The author has announced this is in the works https://mailchi.mp/cassandraclare/202..."A Kickstarter to fund the printing and distribution of a physical book is in progress — it will also include some other fun stuff as bonus tiers, like an updated Notable Shadowhunters and Downworlders flower book. Keep an eye on the SOBH tumblr, because that’s where I’ll be posting updates about the Kickstarter."
although I found this reply by rivka regarding kickstarters "Items solely available through Kickstarter and similar platforms, generally do not meet Goodreads criteria for addition to the database." https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
what do you think should be done?
I marked it as invalid and added a Librarian Note. Also, Tumblr isn't a acceptable book source.Thanks for keeping an eye on this, Tami. It feels like a Hydra. LOL!
Thank you Dobby :D no problem, it really does haha
My goodness, this never ends, does it? Hahaha
By the way, what do you think about Rivka's comment about Kickstarter campaigns? Is it really invalid? Wouldn't it be the same as self-publishing? And what would happen to all the Kickstarter books that have a book record on GR, like Brandon Sanderson's? (Just using Sanderson as an example because I saw he was going to release some books through a Kickstarter campaign, not really sure whether that happened nor how that resulted.)
Since Rivka was staff at the time, I'd say that was an official ruling. As for the books that have been added against policy - well, this one is a good example. We'll mark them as Invalid as we run across them. Once the book is available for sale to the general public through a bookseller, it would be a valid edition.
And books that were not publicly available were never allowed, that's not a new rule - books you only get if you subscribe were always considered not a book, same as e.g. books only sold at a special place (like e.g. theatres/museums) because that wasn't considered publicly available.So no surprise that kickstarter is seen similar for me.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...