Reading the Detectives discussion
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The Case of the Gilded Fly
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The Case of the Gilded Fly - SPOILER Thread (Oct/Nov 21)
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I really enjoy the wit of the narrator and the quirks of Gervase Fen, as well as his struggles of conscience and willingness to take death, even of a wildly unpopular person, seriously. So many mysteries treat murder investigations as a game, and I like that this book rebukes that attitude. I also enjoy academic settings for mysteries, with the odd rituals and intellectual arguments and crazy undergraduate antics.
Abigail wrote: "I really enjoy the wit of the narrator and the quirks of Gervase Fen, as well as his struggles of conscience and willingness to take death, even of a wildly unpopular person, seriously. So many mys..."I agree, about the academic setting, and about Fen’s unique attitude- I appreciated how serious he was about the murder, despite the rotten personality of the victim! I thought he was quirky and odd, but entertaining - and his relationship with his wife, Dolly, was unique and cleverly written. The scene where Gervase has her reenact the flawed suicide theory was funny - Dolly was totally unfazed, despite the gun being loaded. I hope we see more of her in future books!
Susan, like you I loved the scene where Dolly commits suicide. It was such fun. I've read a couple of the Fen books before but this was my first time meeting Dolly and I liked her a lot.
My favourite thing in the book was the writing including what a post I read refers to as 'breaking the fourth wall' which expression I wasnt familiar with: characters acknowledging that they are characters in a book. I'll share the link separately.
Lady Clementina wrote: "My favourite thing in the book was the writing including what a post I read refers to as 'breaking the fourth wall' which expression I wasnt familiar with: characters acknowledging that they are ch..."Thanks for sharing! Reading this article, and the reference to Fen tearing around Oxford at all hours, using terms like “oh, my paws and whiskers”, made me realize Fen reminds me of another favorite academic amateur detective I adore, Charlotte Macleod’s Peter Shandy! He teaches at a small rural Massachusetts agricultural college, but is also a rather quirky but clever character, prone to littering his conversations with literary allusions (he’s a middle-aged confirmed bachelor in the series debut, but soon married a college librarian).
Lady Clementina wrote: "Susan, like you I loved the scene where Dolly commits suicide. It was such fun. I've read a couple of the Fen books before but this was my first time meeting Dolly and I liked her a lot."Yes, she just smiles and says she’s going home, tells Gervase not to wake the children when he gets home. She’s terrific!
Good point about Fen being like Peter Shandy! You remind me yet again of how much I rue having given away my Charlotte MacLeods when I was downsizing. They kept me giggling on every page.Lady Clementina, RE: breaking the fourth wall. It makes me squirm sometimes but here I agree, it’s just part of the fun! Seems to have been quite a feature of tongue-in-cheek British mysteries of this era.
Abigail wrote: "Good point about Fen being like Peter Shandy! You remind me yet again of how much I rue having given away my Charlotte MacLeods when I was downsizing. They kept me giggling on every page.Lady Cle..."
Good news, I’ve found several of her books as ebooks on Scribd, and gotten good deals through Amazon on kindle books! My used paperbacks are so yellowed and have such tiny print, I don’t read them anymore, I use the ebooks!
Glad you mentioned Charlotte MacLeod. I just found the second of that series and have been meaning to read that.In Gilded Fly, I loved the Alice references a lot, paws and whiskers, I'm late and him being asleep like the dormouse
Re breaking the fourth wall, this one was really full of instances and all very enjoyable. I marked out my favourite ones but will share when I'm on the computer. Replying from the phone again.
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When I first read this, some readers found the fact everyone disliked the victim an issue, but I felt this is fairly common in GA crime novels.
I imagine that it was a difficult issue for early writers of mysteries to treat violent death as entertainment, so having a hateful victim made it easier to escape Victorian shibboleths about mourning and loss. We tend to forget that there were still Victorians alive during the era when GA books were written, and many of the authors were raised by people with Victorian values and mind-set, however modern they are trying to be.
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Susan wrote: "Fen did reference Alice a lot. Possibly a little Oxford joke?When I first read this, some readers found the fact everyone disliked the victim an issue, but I felt this is fairly common in GA crim..."
I was wondering the same thing as well; I can't remember the other books I've read in this series, but I just saw someone's review of a novella featuring Fen and Alice is very much there as well.
Some of the 'fourth wall' quotes I marked:I’m the only literary critic turned detective in the whole of fiction.
Really, Gervase. If there’s anything I profoundly dislike, it is the sort of detective story in which one of the characters propounds views on how detective stories should be written…
Oh Lord….Mystification again. I know: it can’t come out till the last chapter.
Is it usual...for the detective to discuss the crime with his suspects in this impartial and informative fashion?
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There's also an element of misogyny with Yseut getting rather a lot of blame for other people's behaviour - Robert didn't have to have an affair with her and Donald didn't have to fall in love (or lust) with her!
But I agree the victim everyone hates was common in books of the era and I don't think dislike of Yseut is particularly dwelt on as the novel goes on. Fen also realises he is wrong to even consider going easy on the killer because of his opinion of the victim.
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Judy wrote: "I also really like Dolly - sadly I don't think she appears in any of the other Crispin books, although I have only read a few of them! I remember there are lots of Alice references in the other boo..."'Oh my fur and whiskers' seems a particular favourite since someone mentioned it appearing in another book as well.
Judy wrote: "I also really like Dolly - sadly I don't think she appears in any of the other Crispin books, although I have only read a few of them! I remember there are lots of Alice references in the other boo..."Oh, nuts - I was fascinated by Dolly and Gervase’s relationship, was looking forward to seeing more of it…
I didn't come across Dolly in the two other Fen books I've read so far but like you Susan, was hoping to see her in others.
Lady Clementina wrote: "Some of the 'fourth wall' quotes I marked:I’m the only literary critic turned detective in the whole of fiction.
Really, Gervase. If there’s anything I profoundly dislike, it is the sort of dete..."
Just reading this now after having posted the same ones in the non-spoiler thread-I enjoyed them in this context.
I also quite enjoyed this one, and look forward to reading further Crispin mysteries with this group. Can anyone explain the Gilded Fly reference to me? What did it have to do with the ring?
I still wasn't clear on what Warner was being blackmailed for-was it that he had used prostitutes in South America, or that he was involved in their procurement/making money from the trade? It was a rather fantastical murder-how could Warner have known that Yseut would be searching the appropriate drawer right at the time that the men were listening to such vigorous music, and that they would be sitting with all the windows open? Including the one in Donald's room?
A fun read nonetheless.
Also agreed on the misogyny-Yseut's miserableness clearly mixed up with her sexual appetites and her being at fault for befuddling everyone, Rachel being "still" lovely at 28 (while Warner is in his late 30's while thinking this), and the throwaway comment about the procurement trade, that the girls are "less sinned against than sinning".
I finished this the other day and forgot to post. I did like it and would like to carry on with the series, though I also found it quite misogynistic, I think that is very common for the era and luckily attitudes have improved to an extent.I thought that he was more involved in making money from the trade, and that was why he was being blackmailed.
The ring’s design was of an ornamental fly. Kind of like a scarab ring only smaller. Insects were common subjects of art jewelry, though a fly would be uncommon and a bit grotesque.
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Can anyone explain the Gilded Fly reference to me? What did it have to do with the ring?
I s..."
I agree with the fantastical murder method. Shooting thru three open windows and hitting Yseut in the forehead, combined with finding her in the appropriate position at the opportune time stretches my imagination.
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I agree that the murder method rivalled Dorothy L. Sayers for bizarre chance, but really enjoyed this one.
Sandy wrote: "Frances wrote: "I also quite enjoyed this one, and look forward to reading further Crispin mysteries with this group. Can anyone explain the Gilded Fly reference to me? What did it have to do wit..."
Yes, definitely a stretch…but I enjoyed it too!
Theater companies are notorious hotbeds of intrigue, and few are more intriguing than the company currently in residence at Oxford University. Center-stage is the beautiful, malicious Yseut - a mediocre actress with a stellar talent for destroying men. Rounding out the cast are more than a few of her past and present conquests, and the women who love them. And watching from the wings is Professor Gervase Fen - scholar, wit, and fop extraordinaire - who would infinitely rather solve crimes than expound on English literature. When Yseut is murdered, Fen finally gets his wish.
Though clear kin to Lord Peter Wimsey, Fen is a spectacular original - brilliant, eccentric and rude, much taken with himself and his splendid yellow raincoat, and given to quoting Lewis Carroll at inappropriate occasions. Gilded Fly, originally published in 1944, was both Fen's first outing and the debut of the pseudonymous Crispin (in reality, composer Bruce Montgomery), whom the New York Times once called the heir to "John Dickson Carr . . . and Groucho Marx."
Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.