2021 Booker Prize Shortlist Discussion

[Bartleby]

I'm really excited to reading this one. My friends who've read it are ecstatic about it, and the things I've read/heard about the way it experiments with the narrator's voice make it seem like it's very much up my alley... I've read people saying it's a very "anti-christian" book, but even tho I come from a christian background I don't mind what the novel has to say, what any novel has to say, as long as it says it ingeniously... anyway, I hope it doesn't disappoint.

[Anna]

I had my complaints about the book, but from a purely critical point of view, it is a worthy winner, I think. It has good structure without being formulaic, well-drawn characters, gorgeous narrative voice, and all this around the inevitable theme of all humans - death. History is unobtrusively threaded into the characters' lives which gives more weight to the story.

What I disliked was its sarcasm about any form of religious faith, but then I forgave it for this: all the Swart family members got their own deathly chapter, except Amor ("love"). "Love" is not touched by human frailty or death - and despite the bitterness and darkness, that was a wonderful takeaway message for this reader.

[But_i_thought_]

I hope his wins means that publishers on the African continent will take more chances with literary and experimental fiction. As is, fiction writing isn’t very lucrative here.

[WndyJW]

That was a remarkable insight, Anna. Thank you. Love is deathless.

[WndyJW]

I wish we had a better look at the handmade books each Shortlisted winner was given.

So….now what? Goldsmith is next week then I guess it’s time to read whatever catches our fancy.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Hopefully Booker will feature them in one of their social media platforms.

[Henk]

150 hours of work per book they said during the livestream so I definitely hope we see a bit more of them

[Cindy]

WndyJW wrote: "I wish we had a better look at the handmade books each Shortlisted winner was given.

So….now what? Goldsmith is next week then I guess it’s time to read whatever catches our fancy."

Don't forget about the National Book Awards Wendy.

[WndyJW]

I haven’t kept up with NBA. When is that announced?

I guess it’s just me that has no lists to read for. It feels good. I have enough subscription books to catch up on to keep me busy.

[Cindy]

The NBA winners will be announced on November 17th.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I must admit I have moved onto to next year's prizes already - feels like "To Paradise" is very likely to be on one if not all of Women's Prize, NBA and Booker longlists at least given the impact of its predecessor (and its success in making the shortlist of each) and its extreme topicality. Not I have to say an ideal book to read when you are suffering with COVID though.

[Cindy]

GY, I'm trying to decide based on what you've just written if you are enjoying the book.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Well I have finished it and there things I love and things I am really not very sure about at all

I will try to gather my thoughts in a review tomorrow

I think it will be a must read of 2022 though

[Cindy]

Is there any way you could be persuaded to forward it across the pond???? It already is at the top of my must read list for 2022.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I have a NetGalley ARC so no.

[Neil]

I also have a NetGalley ARC and I am about two-thirds through. Like GY, there are things I really like and things that I am unsure about. Not much time for reading at the moment but trying to finish before my holiday starts middle of next week because I know my holiday will mean a week with no reading at all.

[Cindy]

Ah, never mind. I could have one of those but I am allergic to ebooks.

[Paul]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I must admit I have moved onto to next year's prizes already - feels like "To Paradise" is very likely to be on one if not all of Women's Prize, NBA and Booker longlists at least given the impact o..."

Please no. That's top of my must not read list for 2022

[Paul]

Feels a 2022 speculation thread is in order - there's already a Listopia https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

[Sam]

Congrats to Damon Galgut! Not my favorite for the prize but happy for him. I still feel his low odds in the betting pools and overwhelming favored status is irksome when comparing all the books since neither the book nor his celebrity warranted such low odds IMO and that troubles me.

I will continue with this year's books throughout the year probably. There are still some interesting prizes left and I have quite a few books I acquired in anticipation of reading. The Giller Prize awards in between the Goldmith's and NBA. I would think at least one of the shortlist will make the Women's Prize. There are a few from the Warwick Prize that interest me and the NBCC, PEN awards, Dublin, Rathbone's Folio and others are yet to come.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Sam wrote: " NBCC, .... Dublin, Rathbone's Folio and others are yet to come."

Do you mean you are yet to read the winners - as I think Hamnet, Lost Children Archive and In the Dream House were all announced a long time back (the first two of course having already featured heavily on other prize lists)

[Sam]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Sam wrote: " NBCC, .... Dublin, Rathbone's Folio and others are yet to come."

Do you mean you are yet to read the winners - as I think Hamnet, Lost Children Archive and In the Dream House were all..."

No I am thinking of future longlist announcements with winners to be announced later this year or next. I always look at the beginning of the year as starting with the Booker since it really takes the premier role in the start of the book prize season. The Pandemic shuffled some schedules around but things seem to be getting back to order. More books released late in the U.S. so I still have a backlog to go.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

Paul, the 2022 speculation thread has already been up for weeks, but I have just pinned it to the top of the folder now that 2021 is decided - having too many pinned threads is self-defeating.

[Paul]

Hugh wrote: "Paul, the 2022 speculation thread has already been up for weeks, but I have just pinned it to the top of the folder now that 2021 is decided - having too many pinned threads is self-defeating."

Good point!!!!!

[WndyJW]

There are so many literary prizes that I can’t keep up with all the nominated books. I pick a few prizes to read for and then count on my intelligent, well read M&G friends to report back on the best of the other lists.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I am planing on cutting down to Womens Prize shortlist and Booker longlist next year. Let’s see if the resolution lasts.

[WndyJW]

I wish you luck with that, GY. Every year I vow I’m not going get caught up in Booker and Women’s longlists, I’ll wait until shortlist, but when the banter starts here I can’t resist. It’s likely you have more self control than me, but you are an avid reader so time will tell…

[LindaJ^]

I liked The Promise. Wasn't my top choice but not one I'll complain about! I do think the books nominated for National Book Award for fiction and translation were overall better than those on the Booker and Book International lists this year.

And, as a result of this discussion, I have pre-ordered To Paradise. I had an Audible credit so wasn't (yet) breaking my re-installed pledge to stop buying books until I make room on my overflowing shelves by either reading or giving away at least 50 books!

[Cindy]

I am determined to get through the longlists of both the Booker and the Women’s Prizes. I usually read the shortlist of the National Book Award and the Goldsmiths Prize. It’s all worthy, I think.

[WndyJW]

It’s never a bad goal to read as many books as possible.

[Chris]

I only did the shortlists (Booker, NBA, and Women’s)…but I joined this group mid-Booker this year and it definitely made me want to shoot for at least that longlist next year :-)

[Hugh, Active moderator]

In theory I'd like my reading to be less prize-oriented, but this group makes that very difficult. Next year I will almost certainly continue to read the Booker and RofC (UK) longlists and the Goldsmiths shortlist, but like this year I will probably be more selective with the Womens Prize and International Booker, especially at the longlist stage.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I think I will probably be the same ultimately Hugh

Its great to support the RoC and of course we have a Trustee of the Prize as a prominent member of the group (in Paul)

The Women's Prize longlist is very long (and deliberately includes books that are really not my type) and the International Booker does not typically give enough time for a read - so they are the easiest to drop (and focus much more selectively).

[Sam]

I go up and down in my reading prize consumption. I pretty much took last year off. This year I have read more than ever, finishing the Booker longlist, the Giller shortlist, after today the Goldmith's finalists, and within a few days most of the NBA translated and fiction longlists. I have all of the Bailles shortlist but one set for November and am still ready for more book prize lists. I don't usually get any books before publication though. I don't like reviewing books as much as chatting about them so I leave the galleys to you, who are more interested and do a much better job. I am for the critical chat that presumes one has read the book.


And on topic, note how Galgut is getting very good press as a Booker winner. I have seen nothing on appropiation or race and nothing about him being a middle-aged white male although that criticism may be reserved for straight white males. It will be interesting to see where this goes in the awarding of future Booker winners. I like the lack of controversy, but would also like to see this and other prizes to continue to expand the scope of potential works evaluated. We will just have to wait and see.

On the flip side I did notice a few remarks digging at Americans in reference to the prize. Nothing offensive, just utterances of nationalistic pride like " Thank God it wasn't an American."

[WndyJW]

Only three Americans have won, they just happen to have won three years in a row. At least only one of the three was that dread creature the straight white male (the horror!)

I agree with Hugh, I don’t want my reading to be all prize led, if the group started with shortlists in various prizes I’d be more tempted. There’s nothing wrong with prize lists, in theory they’re curated to be the best of any category, but until I retire my reading time is evenings and weekends and I enjoy older fiction as well.

Speaking of-will there be a Mookse Madness this Spring? It was fun to pick a Booker year and reread the shortlist.

[David]

For me, reading prize lists is enjoyable if other people are also reading and discussing the same books. I would read more American prizes (e.g., PEN/Faulkner is usually very good), but prize list enthusiasts are few and far between.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

WndyJW wrote: "Only three Americans have won, they just happen to have won three years in a row. At least only one of the three was that dread creature the straight white male (the horror!)

I agree with Hugh, I ..."

Mookse Madness and the Booker revisits are two different things. If we are going to try and squeeze in another historic Booker list, my preference would be to aim for December/January to minimise the overlap with the RofC and Booker International lists. I would still like to try another.

Mookse Madness (the knockout competition using polls) has always been Trevor's project, and I think he was reluctant continue after the degree of heated discussion that the last one generated.

[Areeb]

WndyJW wrote: "Only three Americans have won, they just happen to have won three years in a row. At least only one of the three was that dread creature the straight white male (the horror!)

I agree with Hugh, I ..."

I hate to well, actually but the three haven't won in a row. Contrary to popular assumption, Marlon James won as a Jamaican before the prize opened for Americans and before he became a US citizen (as that's the only way BLRW could be listed for the NBA). Beatty and Saunders won in a row, then Stuart (his win weirdly counts for both UK and US as far as I can tell) after two years.

[WndyJW]

Did Marlon win as a Jamaican? I thought he was living in the US when he won, but of course he is a Jamaican man regardless of where he lived. I don’t remember what country Stuart represented last year. I would guess Scotland as he is a child of Glasgow.

[Areeb]

WndyJW wrote: "Did Marlon win as a Jamaican? I thought he was living in the US when he won, but of course he is a Jamaican man regardless of where he lived. I don’t remember what country Stuart represented last y..."

Apparently I got the eligibility year wrong, the prize opened for Americans in 2014 so a year before Marlon's win. But he did represent Jamaica in 2015 as he was just residing in the US then.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

You are both half-right. Beatty was the first winner who was unequivocally American, but James was already based in the USA when he wrote the book. Americans were first allowed in 2014 (the year Richard Flanagan won) and James would not have been disqualified had he chosen to describe himself as American, Incidentally at least some of last year's lists had Douglas Stuart listed as American too, though he still speaks like a Glaswegian.

[Robert]

Hugh wrote: "You are both half-right. Beatty was the first winner who was unequivocally American, but James was already based in the USA when he wrote the book. Americans were first allowed in 2014 (the year Ri..."

I thought Marlon James was allowed because Jamaica is part of The Commonwealth (hence why Canada, Indian and South African author s made the shortlist in the past

[Hugh, Active moderator]

No, look at the longlists for 2014 and 2015 and you will see several Americans with no dual nationality (notably Siri Hustvedt's The Blazing World in 2014).

[Joy D]

I enjoy reading the Booker lists and plan to go back to read previously nominated books (and winners). These lists are full of high quality writing that I enjoy. I am planning to try to read the longlist each year. This year, I read the NBA short list and the Women's Prize shortlist, and hope to continue.

I have to say I enjoyed the quality of the writing in The Promise and have purchases some of Galgut's back catalogue since I read it, even though it was not at the top of my personal list.

[Emmeline]

I don't read prize lists because I can't keep up/can't afford all those hardcovers but I'm happy some of the rest of you read them so I can sound like I know what I'm talking about with new releases. :-D

[Paul]

GY who is one of our most prolific readers of longlists also manages it very cost efficiently from a combination of Netgalley, his local library (subsidised by Londoners) and “borrowing” books from me (that I never see again).

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

The books I rehome for you in an agricultural setting are unfortunately very unlikely to feature on prize lists due to the bias of all but the RoC against small presses (which are what almost all of them are)

Whereas books I lend to you appear to be sold on We Buy Books (OK - I may have done that with one of the Goldsmith shortlist but I think that was one of my free books anyway from a book event which I failed to attend due to it being ridiculously scheduled for the date on the ticket rather than the date I had noted on my diary)

[John]

Since finding this group last year, I’ve been trying to read as much of the Women’s Prize and the Booker as possible. Got through all of both longlists last year. This year I started with good intentions but life got in the way. Work and family life, including a decision to sell our home and move, then renovations to the new place. But still managed to get through the shortlists (well still got The Promise to go). I very much enjoy following the discussions in this group. Helps me to diversify my reading, find books I’m otherwise unlikely to read and think about all the different views and reading experiences shared here.

I still plan at a minimum to get through the shortlists (Women’s and Booker) each year, then selections based on those that get the strong reviews from many on here (especially GYs as his reading tastes so far seem to align quite closely with mine).

[David]

It might be interesting to do a separate thread where everyone can weigh in on what prizes they plan to follow and subscriptions they have for 2022.

[Joy D]

Emily wrote: "I don't read prize lists because I can't keep up/can't afford all those hardcovers but I'm happy some of the rest of you read them so I can sound like I know what I'm talking about with new release..."
The library is a wonderful source and I was amazed at how many of the Booker Longlist that they had on hand - not a big waiting list either in my area.