Buddy Read (Starting 9/17/21) - Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke

[Russ]

We'll be starting a discussion of Eric LaRocca's "Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke" on 9/17/21. Join myself, Bill, Jackson, and possibly Vanessa for a group read.

"Part Dennis Cooper's The Sluts, part David Cronenberg's The Brood...Eric LaRocca's Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke is a masterpiece of epistolary body horror." - Max Booth III (We Need to Do Something)


Book description on the Weirdpunk website - https://weirdpunkbooks.square.site/pr...

[Bill]

Thanks for setting this up, Russ! Look forward to it.

[Russ]

Hey just a reminder this is kicking off tomorrow.

[Bill]

I didn't notice how short this book is. Two chapters and I'm almost at the halfway point!

I really like the setup in the opening chapter. The exchanges between the two characters are nicely rendered. There are obviously key details that are hidden, and I keep expecting things to take an unsettling turn... but not yet.

The 2nd chapter kept me engaged and guessing, and the relationship between the two characters is developed nicely. Eventually we get to (view spoiler)[the master-slave arrangement and contract (hide spoiler)]; I thought this was a bit abrupt, and outcome seems a little pat. But let's see how it continues.

[Russ]

Yeah, I knew it was a short book, but not this short! I read the first two chapters too.

So far, the whole thing seems a bit implausible to me in how fast things played out. Seems like it could've been fleshed out a bit, with some more flirtation between the two characters. Especially given how short the book is. But it's a good enough set-up for whatever is to come.

Will probably finish off the book tomorrow, but might hold back on posting updates in case anyone else joins in.

https://youtu.be/5sN7kgEw954

[Russ]

Won't go into a lot of detail, but the third chapter definitely went in a direction I wasn't expecting, especially the ending.

[Bill]

Russ wrote: "Won't go into a lot of detail, but the third chapter definitely went in a direction I wasn't expecting, especially the ending."

I agree. I'm not sure I like how this was handled.

I finished the fourth chapter. I can't say I'm a fan of the extended stories Agnes is telling.

I'm reminded of how much I love Peter Strickland's Duke of Burgundy:
https://letterboxd.com/film/the-duke-...

The master/slave relationship is handled in a much more subtle, complex, and intense way. I was hoping to see something comparable here, in the email/chat format.

[Russ]

I finished up the whole thing. Won't give away the final chapter, but it did pack a bit of a punch.

I have some concerns about the whole thing but will wait for you to finish up. Haven't seen that movie, but did see this book compared to "The Sluts". "The Sluts" was a far more interesting book.

[Vanessa]

As far as comparing it to other works goes, I keep expecting someone to tell me that it was intended as a response to 50 Shades of Grey. Or maybe romance novels involving BDSM generally.

(view spoiler)[I think it is definitely a reach, but the things I don't like about this book would make much more sense to me if the author would give an interview about how the baby stuff was a commentary on the subtextual pedophilia in 50 Shades of Grey or something like that. (hide spoiler)]

[Russ]

Here's some thoughts on the book after finishing it up, and thinking about it a bit. I'm just putting the whole thing in a spoiler.

(view spoiler)[Some thoughts on the individual chapters as I read through that I didn't want to post so soon.

Chapter 3 surprised me with the fact that the Master/slave contract was declared void after barely beginning. Didn't like that, but overall the chapter was engaging enough.

Chapter 4 Was surprised how quickly the M/s contract re-started - made me feel like the whole relationship was pretty low-stakes if the contract could be broken, then just picked up again with no real effort whatsoever. I agree with Bill, I didn't like the side stories Agnes was telling. Seemed to me a contrived way to get some horrific stuff in the book. The chapter ended with the whole plan of how Agnes should get a parasite by eating the rotten meat, which I knew was gonna get nasty in the final chapter - since we're almost 90% done with the book at this point.

Chapter 5 - A shorter one, and the part that we've been waiting for throughout the book. The gross body horror is pretty well-done, it's disgusting and I really liked how we learned about the events by reading Agnes' unanswered e-mails. Combined with the end of chapter 4, and maybe a short intro, this would've made a good body horror short story for sure. I didn't really get the purpose of Agnes getting the apple peeler - my initial thought was that she was going to do something to the parasite with it, but reading other reviews I see people say that she poked out her eyes with it and died. Which makes more sense since the intro told us her character was dead.

This book could've been much better IMO - I have quite a few things about it that I disliked.

- I really liked the idea of the story being told through E-Mails and AIM chats. But the chats just didn't ring true with me. The main problem is that they're really short! On average these two chat for around 10 minutes a day. That's just unbelievable - I'm old enough to remember using AIM...and there were plenty of people, I'd chat with for hours at times...and I wasn't in a strange intense Master/slave relationship. The chats really needed to be expanded on, as it is, it feels like they discuss what's needed to advance the plot, then someone logs off. And looking back, both characters end the chats at times - so it didn't give the impression that one person wanted to chat longer, while the other leaves the other wanting more.

- The second issue is that it's well-known that this is a story about a lesbian M/s relationship. Yet, there is little if any sexuality in this book. The fact that the characters are gay just seems like a plot device to set up the concept of the characters entering the contact. I expected at least some sexual tension between the two characters, but there really isn't any at all. Seems kinda cheap that the author used the characters' sexuality as only a plot device.

- Both of the above issues lead to a greater problem, which is that the M/s relationship doesn't feel like much of anything at all. The contract was broken then re-started with no tension whatsoever. Even in the grand finale, Agnes isn't forced to do the disgusting act in fear of being dumped/punished/being broke, she's doing it despite Zoe begging her to stop.

There's some sort of subtext here about the concept of motherhood, but I didn't get much out of it. Agnes being rejected by her own mother seems to make her want to find a replacement which is fulfilled by Zoe - especially since Zoe is giving the character an allowance and keeping her safe. And then Agnes also wants to be a mother herself. I suppose it's significant the relationship first ends when Agnes breaks things off after being asked to take the life of a creature, while Zoe breaks things off while Agnes is telling her about the new life inside her body.

Overall, the book was short enough to be enjoyable, it definitely kept me wanting to read on (Probably would've read it in one sitting but slowed down slightly for the group read) and did provide a pretty shocking climax. I was expecting a lot more though, considering the high ratings I've seen for the book.

(hide spoiler)]

[Bill]

Russ wrote: "Haven't seen that movie, but did see this book compared to "The Sluts"."

I'm surprised (but maybe I shouldn't be). I really liked (I assume this is the one) The Sluts. I was never sure what actually happened in The Sluts, and that was very exciting. But there was little mystery in "Things Have Gotten Worse..."

Also, the online exchanges in The Sluts are very typical of gay escort review sites. And we're all complaining about the email/texts in "Things Have Gotten Worse..."

Vanessa wrote: "As far as comparing it to other works goes, I keep expecting someone to tell me that it was intended as a response to 50 Shades of Grey."

Shudder.

[Bill]

Russ wrote: "Here's some thoughts on the book after finishing it up, and thinking about it a bit. "

Thanks for the detailed notes, Russ!

Yeah I was also annoyed with the quick back-and-forth with the contract. I'm sure this happens with flaky participants, especially ones who never met. But why would I want to read about flaky people who are flaky in not very interesting ways? (I love unreliable narrators, but.)

(view spoiler)[The parasite episode was telegraphed. (hide spoiler)] I agree that some of the descriptions were well-done, but I was already annoyed with the telegraphing to be distracted.

I was also bothered by the casual use of the lesbian SM relationship as a device. Especially since the author identifies as male.

Overall, this had a somewhat "made for TV/movie" feel (which is not necessarily a bad thing in itself; I really enjoy some of Nick Antosca's work for instance). I do agree that it's highly readable. I was annoyed with quite a few aspects, but LaRocca has many fans and doesn't need my approval.

[Russ]

The only things the two books have in common is the way the story progresses thru online exchanges and the LGBT aspect.

Wasn't aware how accurate the escort reviews were in the book, though that type of message board seemed very plausible in the earlier days of the internet. And possibly the present-day internet (think I've seen real escort reviews on DC's blog.)

Comparing the two just shows how much better DC's book is. I coincidentally finished "The Sluts" right before this, and I couldn't help but think how that book grabs the reader immediately which didn't happen for me here.

[Russ]

Could you elaborate what you mean by telegraphing? I have a vague idea what you mean, but never heard that term in regards to a story.

[Bill]

Russ wrote: "Could you elaborate what you mean by telegraphing?"

I thought the whole parasite sequence was set up and anticipated, in excessive detail. Much of what followed was spinning out the specifics.

[Russ]

Do you mean how the plan was brought up in chapter 4 where the two characters discussed it? Or did I miss something a bit more subtle?

[Bill]

Russ wrote: "Do you mean how the plan was brought up in chapter 4 where the two characters discussed it?"

Yup, that's it.

[Bill]

Nominees for October?
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Vanessa]

It is interesting that this book about two lesbians written by a man could have been better if it had been more sexual. I do enjoy when I dislike something for reasons that subvert my expectations.

(view spoiler)[
The main thing that disappointed me about this is that I did not believe the characters' motivations. Despite trying to convince myself that this was intended to be a parody of straight romance novels about BDSM, it still hurt my immersion that the characters didn't seem into it.

The pregnancy aspect also made me uncomfortable. Even though it is an outdated cliché that doesn't show up as often as it did a few decades ago, it doesn't help that one of the characters is a lesbian that is obsessed with getting pregnant. I read this after seeing the summary and without paying any attention to the author's name. I had initially assumed the author was a lesbian. Something about the way Agnes talked about wanting to be pregnant struck me as so inauthentic that I stopped reading and looked at the reviews.

I think Zoe's story tangents could have been a good addition. A lot of the characterization in this is the characters describing themselves and their histories, so it could have been a more subtle way of conveying information about her personality or reasons for getting involved in this relationship. I don't remember them revealing anything that we didn't already know.
(hide spoiler)]

[Bill]

I totally agree that the story tangents didn't tell us much about the characters that was illuminating. And they seemed to go on longer than necessary. (Ok, I do often complain that things could be shorter.)

[Russ]

That first story about the young boy being crucified by his jealous brother seemed to offer nothing about the character's background, and was used only as an excuse to have Agnes decide that she wants to be back in the contract. Would have been better if it was an anecdote from her past. Just seemed gratuitous as it is.

One thing I didn't mention is the intro which tells us that Agnes died and there is some sort of lawsuit going on against Zoe. Seems that is supposed to be something mysterious to intrigue the reader. But personally, I'm not all that curious, because I never felt connected to either of the characters.

[Bill]

Last call for October nominations. I'd like to have the poll up by Sunday night:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Bill]

October monthly read poll is up!
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

Please vote by Fri 10/1. If you vote for a book and it wins, you're committing to participate in the conversations.

[Bill]

From Whitney, on the new GR privacy settings:

Goodreads has changed everyone's privacy settings so that they can only receive private messages from GR friends. What this means for members is that announcements from the moderators on things like upcoming reads will no longer go out to everyone in the group.

To continue receiving group emails, you need to change your email settings for "Who Can Send Me Private Messages?" from "Just Friends" to "Anyone". This can be found by clicking on your profile picture, then 'Account Settings' from the drop down menu, then 'Settings' on the top bar.

[Bill]

Last call for October's monthly read poll:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

[Bill]

We have a rare tie in the monthly read poll for October. We'll be reading:

1) Ramsey Campbell, The Searching Dead
Forum thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

2) Susan Neville, The Town of Whispering Dolls: Stories
Forum thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Bill]

What are your favorite books of the year so far?
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...