Dickensians! discussion
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Little Dorrit
Buddy Reads
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Buddy Read of Little Dorrit mid-Sept onwards with Janelle, Bridget, Lori and others
Bridget,Thanks for the reminder that Miss Wade was privy to the marriage. I had forgotten that. Casby definitely knows more than he telling. He's another to add to list of conniving and ruthless characters. This novel is so full of them each with a different twist on their manipulation.
Mr. Casby
Mrs. Gowan
Mrs. Merdle
Blandois/Rigaud
Miss Wade
Fanny Dorrit
Edward Dorrit
I'm going to leave Mr. Dorrit off this list just because I'm hopeful he's got a soft spot somewhere still.
Have I forgotten any of the manipulative people? How can these people be connected?
And are we still looking out for the meanings to that list of clues from Pancks?
Lori wrote: "Bridget,Thanks for the reminder that Miss Wade was privy to the marriage. I had forgotten that. Casby definitely knows more than he telling. He's another to add to list of conniving and ruthless c..."
Great list Lori! I agree about Mr. Dorrit. At least for now we have some hope for him. Should we add Mrs. Clennam and Flintwinch?
Definitely add Flintwinch, he’s up to something nefarious.I don’t think Fanny and Edward are as bad as the others. Yes, they’re selfish but I don’t think they are evil.
Mr F’s aunt is my favourite side character, she makes me laugh. I’m not sure why she hates Arthur so much, hopefully we’ll find out in the end.
I love Pancks threat to cut his hair ! As if it is the worst curse he could think of. :-)Pancks offsets a lot of the evil.
I agree about Mr. Dorrit. I wonder how much of his behavior is due to all the time in prison, the original loss of his place in life, death of his wife, etc. And he seems wily but also somewhat ineffective.
All of the Barnacles should be on the list. I can’t remember if they were or not.
And what about Mrs. Clennam? Is she now too removed from active participation in the firm and life to do much manipulation any longer?
Mod
Ah, but his hair is Mr Casby's pride and joy!
"There was the same smooth face and forehead, the same calm blue eye, the same placid air. The shining bald head, which looked so very large because it shone so much; and the long grey hair at its sides and back, like floss silk or spun glass, which looked so very benevolent because it was never cut;"
(chapter 13)
And Pancks’s hair is obviously “monumental.”
Mod
Great additions to our list of nefarious characters!And chapter 10 provides examples of Mrs. Clennam and Flintwinch.
The atmosphere and mood of this chapter turn dark and foreboding as Arthur visits his mother and Dickens describes the house in its forever dreary way with shadows thickening as he draws closer. He thinks of all of the secrets here in the places surrounding his childhood home. But most sadly for him and high in his thoughts is the secrets in his home:Its close air was secret. The gloom, and must, and dust of the whole tenement, were secret. At the heart of it his mother presided, inflexible of face, indomitable of will, firmly holding all the secrets of her own and his father’s life, and austerely opposing herself, front to front, to the great final secret of all life.
Much to his dismay, Arthur notices the strange man he saw with Tattycoram and Miss Wade come up and knock on the door to his mother's home. It is not a pleasant or welcome occurrence and the two do not pleasantly greet one another. Blandois is haughty and mocking and insists that Affery get "his Flintwinch" right away.
Dickens ratchets up the tension in this scene as Blandois and Mrs. Clennam make Arthur most uncomfortable. He is bewildered and confused and very concerned about what is going on. He gets no answers and his abruptly told to leave by his mother so that they business Blandois has come for can be attended to by herself and Flintwinch. Leaving the house, Arthur asks Affery what's going on but she only says not to ask her anything because she's been in a dream for so long!
It’s a very dark chapter, Lori. It seems Flintwinch and Mrs Clennam know exactly what Blandois is about and don’t want Arthur to know. Very mysterious! I can’t think what this is about.
Mrs. Clennam certainly is holding onto some secret and she does not want Arthur to know about it.
I am beginning to think I have my answer on whether Mrs. Clennam belongs on the list of manipulative and potentially evil people. The sense of “bad-ness” seemed to ooze through Arthur’s old neighborhood as he walked to his mother’s home. Thank goodness he doesn’t actually live there now.And didn’t Blandois seem to act like more of an evil buffoon here than in other places, like he is in a comfortable and familiar place? And he seems to feel that he belongs there more than Arthur does—and Mrs. Clennam agrees. I feel awful for Affery, not understanding what is happening around her but being scared all the time.
Sue - you’re quite right about Blandois’ manner. It’s as though he has something over Mrs Clennam and Flintwinch so can behave as he pleases. He’s very arrogant.
Yes, Fiona. He’s the cat, perhaps and everyone else are mice for him to play with before he decides to attack. But are Flintwich and Mrs. Clennam working with him or potential victims. They seem to have worked together before so I won’t fbad if Blandois takes advantage of them in the end.
I love the image of cat and mouse, Sue! I think once we know the relationship between them, everything else will unravel.
So true, Fiona. And I see my comment didn’t fully appear above. What I meant to type was that I wouldn’t feel bad if they are working together and then come to harm from Blandois.
I might be feeling that way too Sue, because I rather enjoyed how Blandois "hugged" Flintwinch rather violently, and then sort of tossed him across the room as he released him from their greeting. Honestly, that made me laugh!Did I read the ending right, that Blandois was threatening Arthur with his dark story about a "friend" who is worried someone will murder him, or poison him?
What a melancholy letter to Arthur from Little Dorrit. She tells him of Minnie and of Henry. She talks of the drab and shabby apartments that Minnie and Henry stay in. Minnie is so very alone and has had her baby - a boy. Henry must be fond of her, and I do not doubt that he is - but in his way. Henry's method in painting is disorderly and impatient. He spends much time in society occasionally accompanied by Minnie. Little Dorrit mentions his "friend" Blandois who is not in Rome now which is good because she and Minnie do not like him.
Sadly Amy confesses her homesickness to Arthur and of some odd dreams she has of being back in the Marshalsea.
So dearly do I love the scene of my poverty and your kindness. O so dearly, O so dearly!Heaven knows when your poor child will see England again.
Lovely summation, Lori! I do appreciate Amy and Minnie becoming allies of a sort. They both need a friend. Minnie has changed so much since her marriage to Henry. She seems to have lost all confidence in herself, thanks to Henry and his mother feeling he married below himself. I find it interesting that the Minnie’s parents were responsible for paying Henry’s debts, not his own family. Does anyone know why this is?
I think the Meagles may simply have more money. Maybe it was taken on as a sort of dowry and now it has become a continuing expectation. Perhaps the Gowans even made it a part of the marriage negotiations. Sort of a pre-nuptial agreement, 19th century style. Even worse is that all of the young couple’s acquaintances think that she is sponging off of him for his “good” name and society.Fiona, I’d forgotten about that part of the scene but it certainly fits as a threat doesn’t it.
It’s clear from what Little Dorrit says that Mr Meagles is struggling to keep his temper with Henry and no wonder! It must be difficult for them not to interfere.It made me laugh that Henry’s portrait of Mr Dorrit looks very little like him. I’ll be interested to know what Mr Dorrit thinks!
It’s so sad that both Mr Dorrit and Amy miss Marshalsea. They’re like fish out of water.
Antionette, I too am glad that Amy and Minnie are friends. It saddens me to see how lonely Minnie is and now with a new baby and a husband who cares for her but "in his own way" doesn't seem a happy marriage. This quotation was particularly heartbreaking:She is so true and so devoted, and knows so completely that all her love and duty are his for ever, that you may be certain she will love him, admire him, praise him, and conceal all is faults, until she dies. I believe she conceals them, and always will conceal them, even from herself.
That Amy can perceive Minnie in this way and Minnie not even realize it, is so sorrowful.
This letter is heartbreaking.
I love the letter chapters! It’s such a great way for Dickens to give information not only to Arthur but to us too. And I like how we get to see inside Amy’s head.
Now, will Arthur begin to see a little more into her head, how much she cherishes every memory of him that she has?
I know! And she tells him she has no lover! I'm afraid we are wishful thinking because I don't think Arthur can think of Amy romantically. She will always and forever be his little child, Little Dorrit. But maybe I'm wrong....one can hope!
Love the quote you shared, Lori! Yes, Amy does really understand Minnie. They are alike that way. Amy would never desert her father or family, no matter what. I also think that Amy will always be true to Arthur, in her heart.
I like the letters too because we get to see what Amy thinks about other characters. Like the way she describes Blandois - even though she doesn't name him. My favorite was the way she describes Henry as "unsettled and dissatisfied" and when she says it could be that he has no belief in anybody else, because he has no belief in himself. I don't think I can be that generous in my opinion of Henry, but it fits with Little Dorrit's character that she thinks that way.About the Meagles paying off Henry Gowan's debt, I thought they did it because they wanted to give the couple a fresh start on their life together, and because they could afford it. I bet there are well off families today who would do the same thing for their daughter or son. I had one friend whose in-laws paid off her college loans after the wedding. Maybe its not so old fashioned afterall.
I am trying to think about a happy ending, or what I would like to happen before the end of the book. I would like to see Arthur and Little Dorrit together (but I wonder how Little Dorrit could make her father accept a marriage with Arthur) and Minnie with Doyce (but I do not know how Henry Gowan could be disposed of).
I have to preface this summary with how difficult this chapter was for me. I understand the gist but the wordiness really made it hard to sift through. Maybe that was the idea - Dickens created a chapter with the Barnacles and Mr. Merdle that went round and round just like the Circumlocution office. That's what my brain was doing while reading! So, Mr. Merdle being in London without his bosom is still keeping up his societal parties with the help of his staunch and strict Chief Butler. A letter from Mrs. Merdle explains the imperative nature of Mr. Merdle working out "something" (a position) for Edmund Sparkler immediately.
Thus a dinner party with some very important guests is thrown and those in attendance are many Barnacles. The lengthy dinner in which the group talk about a lot of nothing is set up for one reason - for Mr. Merdle and Lord Decimus to have a conversation alone.
During dinner, however, Lord Decimus asks about the story of the gentlemen confined to debtor's prison for a lengthy period who found himself released and wealthy. Thus, Mr. Dorrit's name and situation is briefly discussed and only that a lot of forms had to be filled out in regards to this. When Lord Decimus asks about the man's family, Mr. Merdle claims that he has two daughters. I think he may not have realized what this revelation might do or the light it sheds on the Dorrit's or his own family.
Finally, a convoluted diversion to get Merdle and Decimus together ensues and they work out what Sparkler's new position will be.
A few days later it is announced that Edmund Sparkler, son-in-law to Mr. Merdle is now to be one of the "Lords of the Circumlocution Office".
Yes, Lori, it was a real Circumlocution chapter about a proper Circumlocution dinner. Many words to arrive to one thing only, a position for Edmund Sparkler.Mr. Merdle reminds me of Mr. Melmotte of The Way We Live Now by Trollope. He is rich, nobody knows where his money is coming from (is it honestly gained?), anyway everyone flatters and cajoles him.
Lori - it wasn’t the easiest chapter to read, I agree. I suspect there are a lot of in jokes in it for the benefit of Dickens’ contemporaries but which are lost on us.The whole performance seemed to me like a wooing or a matchmaking ceremony. The two interested parties had to feign disinterest in speaking to each other until they were brought together ‘by chance’.
Edmund has been found a sinecure purely because he is Mr Merdle’s stepson. Perhaps this will make him more attractive to Fanny? Maybe she will see herself as the next society ‘bosom’?!
Ha! Fiona that comment about Fanny made me laugh!!Daniela I’ve not read that one by Trollope but it sounds like a perfect comparison.
Daniela wrote: "I am trying to think about a happy ending, or what I would like to happen before the end of the book. I would like to see Arthur and Little Dorrit together (but I wonder how Little Dorrit could mak..."Sorry I didn't see your comment yesterday Daniela. Just wanted to share maybe Henry Gowan will be mysteriously poisoned. ;-)
Isn't Doyce too old for Minnie? He's older than Arthur, isn't he?
Mod
Excellent observation :) There are several similarities between the novels.
Daniela, I love your description of the dinner. It is a Circumlocution dinner, absolutely. It’s a Circumlocution chapter since no one can actually say what they mean or mean what they say. And The Way We Were is a great comparison. I enjoyed that book very much. It even has the touches of humor we see in Dickens from what I recall of it.
And somehow I don’t see any employment helping Sparkler with Fanny but at least he may begin spending his own money.
I love your comment, Daniela! Truly a circumlocution chapter.I was struck by the long first paragraph:
“The famous name of Merdle became, every day, more famous in the land. Nobody knew that the Merdle of such high renown had ever done any good to any one, alive or dead, or to any earthly thing; ……………..All people knew (or thought they knew) that he had made himself immensely rich; and, for that reason alone, prostrated themselves before him, more degradedly and less excusably than the darkest savage creeps out of his hole in the ground to propitiate, in some log or reptile, the Deity of his benighted soul.”
It made me think that things haven’t changed much, billionaires are worshipped today. Made me wish that Dickens was still around today to take down some of them as well!
Mod
As a vast fire will fill the air to a great distance with its roar, so the sacred flame with the mighty Barnacles had fanned caused the air to resound more and more with the name of Merdle.Dickens begins this chapter describing an infection or a disease - an epidemic but not of the virulent type. It is the epidemic of Mr. Merdle. Everywhere, everyone is talking about Merdle's Millions. Even in the Bleeding Heart Yard where our chapter is focused, the rent defaulters speak of Merdle in a positive way.
Mrs. Plornish has a grocery shop and has Maggy helping her out and Mr. Plornish has a part in a builder's business. Mr. Baptist has saved some money and has invested the small sum with one of Mr. Merdle's enterprises.
Pancks stops by to visit Mrs. Plornish asking about her business which she reveals that she would be making profit if not for the credit the folks of Bleeding Heart cannot pay. However, they do fully support her.
At tea-time, Mr. Baptist/Cavaletto arrives in a harried state. Mrs. Plornish aids in her "Italian" translations with him taking credit for helping him with his understanding of English. We learn that he has seen someone whom he never wanted to see ever again. He is definitely spooked (and we know who he has seen!)
Arthur stops by to tell the news of Little Dorrit's latest letter and asks Pancks to come to eat dinner with him at his room. Arthur is tired and forlorn and has many things on his mind. His friendship with Pancks is growing. They talk about Merdle and Baptist and Arthur learns that Pancks has invested his 1,000 pounds with Merdle. He advises Arthur do the same and help to recompense Doyce's disappointments.
In those moments, Mr. Pancks began to give out the dangerous infection with which he was laden. It is the manner of communicating these diseases; it is the subtle way in which they go about.
Bred at first, as many physical diseases are, in the wickedness of men, and then disseminated in their ignorance, these epidemics, after a period, get communicated to many sufferers who are neither ignorant nor wicked.
But is Arthur giving in to the Merdle mania?
I liked this chapter very much. I like the friendship that exists between people in Bleeding Heart Yard as we see in the scene in Mrs. Plornish's shop, I like the relationship between Arthur and Mr. Pancks and I like the fact that they remember the Little Dorrit, think about her and are so happy when Arthur goes to the shop especially to read them the letter; also they worry about Mr. Cavalletto. In this chapter Bleeding Heart Yard seems a better place than before.
I wonder what the Merdle mania will bring.
I think Merdle mania will open the doors to the Marshalsea for reckless investors! Pancks seems truly to believe in his investment. I’m wondering if this is a satire on Railway Mania that reached its peak in the 1840s before crashing, losing investors huge sums of money? Perhaps Jean can advise?I was pleased to learn that Maggy is safe and sound with the Plornishes. Cavalletto, as we had wondered a few chapters ago, is employed by Arthur and has no doubt felt that he has secured a new life for himself - until his sighting of Rigaud / Blandois, poor man.
Mod
I think there's plenty about this in the original thread, which Lori will probably link to.
Lori, you're doing us all proud with your great summaries :)
Thanks Jean! Did the link not come through? If not, so sorry. I usually double check.
I was hoping that Pancks and Arthur would steer clear of the contagion but Pancks has already been bitten and he's swaying Arthur to do the same. This can't go well for either of them the way Merdle has been built up in these last chapters. That last sentence says it all:
Such symptoms, when a disease of the kind is rife, are usually the signs of sickening.
It's as if the Merdle mania is the plague with very few survivors.
Dickensians!
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Little Dorrit (other topics)
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Charles Dickens (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
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The last thing I remember about Cavelletto is what Lori said, that he's living at The Bleeding Heart Yard, and Arthur is paying his rent. So I just assumed Arthur put him to work in Doyce and Clennam somehow.
Lots of new mysterious threads started in this chapter. I had forgotten that Miss Wade knew about the Pet/Henry Gowan engagement before Arthur and the Meagles knew. So maybe Miss Wade is connected to the Gowans somehow. Maybe through her mysterious parentage?
I think Mr. Casby holds the key to that mystery. I haven't liked Mr. Casby since I figured out he's basically a loan shark who makes Pancks do his dirty work while he maintains his "Patriarchial" veneer. But I was still surprised by Pancks' being so threatening to him at the end
"I don't mean cut his throat. But, by all that's precious, if he goes too far, I'll cut his hair!"