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Little Dorrit
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Buddy Read of Little Dorrit mid-Sept onwards with Janelle, Bridget, Lori and others
I was waiting for Amy to appear in chapter 36, I was wondering what she was doing, I could not imagine her spending money or buying dresses, and she was not.I cannot imagine Dorrits' lives from now on. It seems to me that they are spending a lot of money.
At the beginning this chapter was tiring to read, I was trying and figure who was who, they were indicated with words such as "the man who said this" "the man who did that". I had not recognized the Dorrits at once because I was not expecting Mrs. General. Then I understood that husband and wife were the Gowans. But I had not thought that we were to find here, on the Alps, another old acquaintance...
As Book 2 begins, it appears that Dickens is returning to the travelers theme. We are no longer in England but it is night and dark and a group of travelers on mules are making their way up a mountain in the Swiss Alps. I loved the descriptions of the snow and the cold. They are enroute to a convent which is where they stay the night. There is no mention of the names of the travelers which was a brilliant technique by Dickens. He wants us to figure out who these travelers are because we most likely already know them.
I loved the contrast of the living and the dead travelers. This was not a safe place apparently to be at this time of year. Did anyone catch the discussion about this time of year there are none but smugglers coming this way? Food for thought maybe?
Right away I started noting the descriptions of the travelers
the Chief of the important tribe with 2 daughters and a brother plus an elderly lady
an artistic traveller
the insinuating traveller
one lady and 2 gentlemen
These travelers dine and talk amongst themselves getting a feel for each other. One young beautiful woman faints and is taken to bed to rest. While another, the youngest of the two sisters, leaves to find her way to the room of the fainted young woman. She passes her a note in which she was to pass to her if she ever met her abroad.
In the end, the mustachioed man escorts the youngest sister downstairs where he continues to talk with the Chief.
And then the final page with the list, we all most likely picked up on these as we were reading.
What a fantastic way to start Book 2!
Yes, Daniela, Mrs. General is a new character for us and with a name like that (my mind goes to military) she will be quite an interesting one to get to know. So this was the Dorrit's Grand Tour that Jean talks about in the original thread as a tradition of fashionable and wealthy British folk to tour countries on the continent.
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It was Pictures from Italy, and parts of Little Dorrit also derive from his own travels on the continent.
I loved this chapter, Jean! I read it before I went to church this morning but didn't have time to post until I got home. I'm sorry for the additional suspense in getting started today. Oh my goodness! I've just realized that they are going to Italy and Dickens did his Italy tour in Pictures from Italy. I did not get to read that one, so now I will have to add it.
Since Dickens had first hand knowledge of this location having stayed here at the Great St. Bernard Pass, he certainly was able to use that to write his beautiful descriptions. Here is a link with more info about the St. Bernard Pass that was from the original thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_S...
I loved the descriptions of the Mountain Pass, the cold, the snow the treachery of the climb and then the clouds and mists. No one writes scenery like Dickens "the ascending Night came up the mountain like a rising water" what a beautiful simile almost as if the Night is another character in the story.Like Daniela, I found the beginning confusing, when the "insinuating traveller" was talking to the "Chief of the Tribe", so I read it a second time after I finished the chapter to pick up anything I missed the first time. It made more sense then. I do think its clever the way Dickens hides everyone's identity for so long and lets the reader figure it out on their own.
So the first chapter of Book One starts out in the heat of the summer, and Book Two starts out in autumn, does that mean only about four months have passed since the story began? It seems like it should be longer than that; so much has happened since the story started. Am I reading that right?
Lori - thank you for mentioning that this is the start of Book 2. I was a little bewildered at the sudden relocation to the St Bernard Pass but it makes sense now.Like others, I loved the description of the area. It brought it alive for me and reminded me of David Copperfield’s travels in Switzerland, if I’m remembering correctly.
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About the "dead travellers", my book has a note that includes the September 1846 letter from Charles Dickens to his friend John Forster.
Dickens was staying at the Hospice of the Great Saint Bernard when he wrote it. I thought it was fascinating. Here it is:
Beside the convent, in a little outhouse with a grated iron door which you may unbolt for yourself, are the bodies of people found in the snow who have never been claimed and are withering away -- not laid down, or stretched out, but standing up, in corners and against walls; some erect and horribly human, with distinct expressions on the faces; some sunk down on their knees; some dropping over on one side; some tumbled down altogether, and presenting a heap of skulls and fibrous dust
Goodness gracious! What a sight to see.
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Bridget it does seem as though more time has passed doesn’t it? The first chapter begins in August and now it is autumn. Unless anyone else has noted any other passages noting the time of year, I’d say you’re correct.Thanks for the note from your book regarding Dickens’ time here. What a horrific sight that must have been. He was obviously struck by it since he has used the setting here as well as the short story Jean mentioned. I have not read that either but will now.
Such a chapter. And now we know everyone except Mrs. General. Interesting that Amy seems to be performing some of her old role as intercession between people. I really didn’t like that “Blandois” was waiting to accompany her back to the group after she had completed her errand. And who sent the message? My first thought was Arthur but I can’t figure out why he would. Of course there is much time unaccounted for.
Sue, the letter was from Arthur. I think it was like an introduction of Amy to Minnie if she came across her on their travels.The marriage seems to be in trouble already, doesn’t it?
Amy must be writing to Arthur but doesn’t want it mentioned to the rest of the family, Arthur isn’t good enough to be their acquaintance any more.
I’m curious about the teacher and three students, will they be relevant to the story?
Thanks Janelle. I missed that though I know Arthur pledged to always help her. Gowan appears to be an idiot and a spendthrift. Blandois has him in his sights. Their marriage is doomed. I only hope he hasn’t doomed his wife as well. Of course he would inherit all that was hers. And he shows no concern for her at all.
Janelle, I'm afraid you may be right about the marriage. I'm interested in finding out how Blandois has paired up with the Gowans in the travels.
Sue, Gowan made out much better with this marriage than Minnie did, that's for sure. It's sad to think of all that she loses because of a marriage.
Thank you Bridget for the note about the dead travellers. I could not find anything googling it. I imagine that they thawed in summer?I found, and I did not know it, that St Bernard dog is a kind of dog that was created there, at the hospice, crossbreeding other kinds of dogs.
Dickens has devoted this short chapter to Mrs. General. She is a woman of 45 who just might become an old maid at her age; however she marries an officer of 60 who dies shortly after their marriage.Mrs. General discovers that her monetary prospects are not what she expected as her husband had taken out an annuity which died with him. Now she decides that it would be apt for her to
‘form the mind,’ and eke the manners of some young lady of distinction”
After performing these duties for a young lady for 7 years, she must locate another genteel family. Mr. Dorrit happens to be looking for just the person and he learns through his bankers (why the bankers?)
that Mrs. General is perfect.
Mr.s General, however, manipulates her "contract" if you will by not wanting to discuss money or payment as that is not appropriate for such a pretentious woman. She manages to get a raise for having two daughters to mentor.
What an interesting woman who may or may not (most likely not) be able to teach Amy and Fanny much.
Mrs General had no opinions. Her way of forming a mind was to prevent it from forming opinions. She had a little circular set of mental grooves or rails on which she started little trains of other people’s opinions, which never overtook one another, and never got anywhere.
My favorite description of Mrs. General is that of varnish (An artificial covering to give a fair appearance to any act or conduct; outside show; gloss)
Seems as if the Dorrit's have a new member of the family and one that appears to fit in with most of them except for Amy, I think.
Lovely summary, Lori. I think this chapter is hilarious. Dickens’ caricature of Mrs General is wonderfully funny. The story hasn’t moved on but it was well worth it for this!
Bionic Jean wrote: "Did you read To Be Read at Dusk with us Bridget? (Sara led our short group read of it last summer.) It starts with the same startling and rather gruesome image."I missed the readings that summer Jean, but I'm adding To Be Read at Dusk to my list right now. Sounds like a perfect Halloween story.
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I also loved the humor in this chapter. Lori already hit on one of my favorite quotes. Here's another "but for the lady's undoubted merit, it might have appeared as though they wanted to get rid of her" which of course they did want to get rid of her!She is totally gouging Mr. Dorrit with her 400 pound "salary". The going rate for a governess at the time was 25-50 pounds a year (again from the notes section of my edition). She is a shrewd woman, that's for sure. It also shows that Mr. Dorrit does not know how to manage his new found wealth.
Bridget - you’re right that Mr Dorrit might not be managing his money well but also the amount he’s prepared to pay Mrs General tells us that he must have come into a considerable fortune.
Thats true as well Lori. Good point.
Wow I think that’s such a huge discrepancy in payments. Mrs. General is cunning! I also wonder what she’s done or not done to cause folks to want rid of her! Ha!
This was a wonderfully funny chapter.
Bridget wrote: "Thats true as well Lori. Good point."Fiona wrote: "Bridget - you’re right that Mr Dorrit might not be managing his money well but also the amount he’s prepared to pay Mrs General tells us that he must have come into a considerable fortune."
Sorry, I should have said good point Fiona! My bad. Feeling sleepy, must get more coffee!
The descriptions of Mrs. General were wonderful and the sarcasm was just dripping. I’m sure Dorrit would never see that he is being taken for a ride especially since he has done the same to others. She is quite a creation. I loved the line where she is described as her eyes having no expression “because they had nothing to express. If she had few wrinkles, it was because her mind had never traced its name or any other inscription on her face.”I can imagine Dickens laughing as he wrote this chapter and I wondered if there was any person or people he had in mind for this “lovely” lady.
I’m glad for the mention of To be read at Dusk. I wasn’t a member last summer so didn’t read it. Happily this is in my collection and I hope to read it soon. Thanks to Jean and Bridget above.
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Bridget (and others) here is the part of To Be Read at Dusk where we are outside the same Inn at the Great St Bernard Pass, where the setting sun is like spilt blood:
“looking at the reddened snow, and at the lonely shed hard by, where the bodies of belated travellers, dug out of it, slowly wither away, knowing no corruption in that cold region.”
The story is well worth a read :)
Jean - I have just read this story. It’s available as part of a larger collection on the Internet Archive website. I can just imagine Dickens gathering people around a fire in a dark room in winter, at dusk, to tell them this story. Spooky!
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And thanks for the "like" on my review of it :)
We begin this chapter the next morning with the Dorrit's preparing to leave with their massive entourage of servants and mules to carry everything on their continued journey into Italy. Tip (Edward now as he prefers to leave the old habits in the past) is criticizing Henry Gowan to Amy who doesn't oblige. Next the family is criticizing Amy for in their perception, nursing Mrs. Gowan even though she has just shown her kindness. Of course, this behavior is to be left in the past because it is completely beneath their family's new station. Mr. Dorrit feels obliged to explain this to Amy who we know will never change inside. She is always to be the sweet and endearing girl caring for others and wanting others to be comfortable and well. She will always feel the need to do things for herself rather than allow a servant to do things for her. This is so very odd for her. But her father insists that
to make themselves respected … Dependants, to respect us, must be—ha—kept at a distance and—hum—kept down. Down.
Amy's connection with Arthur Clennam is discussed and determined that not worthy of continuing as it is part of their past and they are to forget all of that.
And we finally get a glimpse into brother Frederick's new way of life. He is acclimating to the family's new station by reveling in his brother's glory and not wanting any fuss about him. He is actually the only one who notices and appreciates Amy for what she has done and dislikes when she is slighted.
Once they arrive at their hotel they find that a genteel lady and her son who turn out to be Mrs. Merdle and Sparkler(!) have usurped the hotel clerk into allowing them to dine in one of Mr. Dorrit's rooms. This indignity sends him into a diatribe in which he threatens to leave. However, all is made well when the two parties talk and things are smoothed over. Sparkler seems to take a fancy to Fanny (oh Boy!) and Amy is left in the end reminiscing about and never forgetting the Marshalsea. She is so lonely and sad and it's obvious that she will never fit into this lifestyle.
To have no work was strange, but not half so strange as having glided into a corner where she had no one to think for, nothing to plan and contrive, no cares of others to load herself with.
Thanks for the summary, Lori. As you say, Amy seems to be the only one who misses their old life and for whom this new life and this European tour seems unreal and probably alien. She compares everything to the Marshalsea, the only world she’s known til now, her only reality, her touchstone. It’s interesting how pompously the other members of her family behave, with the exceptions of Frederick and Amy. The scene that Mr Dorrit creates when he finds one of their rooms in use is unbecoming and, I would think, ungentlemanly. It contrasts with the way in which Edward tries to calm the situation. He’s a buffoon but he’s used to privilege. Mr Dorrit is obsessed with his status and others’ recognition of it.
Also interesting is Fanny’s reaction to seeing Edward. I would have expected her to be horrified to see both him and his mother as both know Fanny’s previous occupation. Instead she seems to be excited at seeing him. Edward recognises her but perhaps he thinks she just looks like ‘his’ Fanny. Another doppelgänger.
I wonder about accents - perhaps Jean can help here? Mr Dorrit has always referred to himself as a gentleman and so we assume he had a gentile upbringing and is well educated - unless I’ve misunderstood, he speaks in French with the innkeeper - but his children were raised in the Marshalsea and mixed with the lower classes outside it. Wouldn’t their accents betray them?
Dickens paints a very bleak picture of poverty in rural Italy. The party sees everything from gaudy altars to villages where there is nothing to do but die.
Fiona, you reminded me that the Merdles already know Fanny. I had forgotten so thanks for that. It makes sense as to Sparkler's reaction to seeing Fanny now. I love the way you describe Mr. Dorrit - a buffoon! Obsessed is a mild description. It's as though he's royalty and nothing less will suffice.
I had hoped that the Dorrit's would have brought Maggy along and paid her debt for her. But that would be too kind. Amy is missing her.
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Yes he is genteel, and French was the language of the upper classes for centuries (as you will know). So he will make it very obvious that "he speaks in French with the innkeeper". This is not to put the poor working man at ease, as we might assume of other characters, but rather to show off his own accomplishments :(
In a similar way, Mr. Dorrit's interjected "hah" and "hum" are mere affectations: considered to be a mark of a genteel manner.
"but his children were raised in the Marshalsea and mixed with the lower classes outside it. Wouldn’t their accents betray them?"
Good point! I'm always surprised that urchins in the street often seem to speak perfect middle class English - the workhouse boy Oliver Twist is a good example. It's something many Victorian authors seem to have a blind spot over.
In this case though, I assume that Mr. Dorrit considers his fatherly duty includes instructing his children in correct pronunciation. After all, he does little else! Amy Dorrit is keen to learn, and the old turnkey Mr. Chivery had taught her how to read. I believe that she would think it respectful to practise good elocution learned from her father. And her brother and sister would do it, because they would think it might help them to get on in society.
Lori wrote: "I had hoped that the Dorrit's would have brought Maggy along and paid her debt for her. But that would be too kind. Amy is missing her."I've been wondering what happened to poor Maggy? I'm sure we will find out, Dickens never just drops characters like that, but in the meantime, I am worried for her. Maybe she's living back at the Dorrit estate in England. I hope that's the case.
Excellent point Fiona, about Mr. Dorrit being obsessed with how his status is perceived by others. The Marshalsea is a ghost, or a shadow hanging over him. You can take the man out of the prison, but not the prison out of the man. He's going to be insecure about perceptions for a long long time.
Its an interesting contrast to see the Merdles and the Dorrits together on the steps of the hotel. The Dorrits, even though they are technically a genteel family, behave much more like a noveau riche family; and the Merdles who are noveau riche behave much more like genteel folk.
Lori - in Mr Dorrit’s defence, I meant that Edward is a buffoon, not Mr Dorrit! Sorry for the lack of clarity. Like you and others, I’ve also been wondering what has happened to Maggy.Jean - these are really interesting points, thank you. I hadn’t thought of Mr Dorrit making sure his children speak ‘properly’. Of course he would! Just as our Mums did with us - or mine did with me. I didn’t dare drop a glottal stop ‘t’!
I’m hoping Maggy is at their home also. As for the Dorrit family, what a scene when they arrived at their place and a usurper in one of their rooms. I suppose it could be attributed to “Father” Dorrit’s sensitivity after resuming his life of a gentleman. But I also wonder, could this be Mr. Dorrit’s true personality now that he has left prison and resumed a life of means? We don’t know what he was like before whatever happened to lead him to Marshalsea. Maybe his personality had something to do with it. The way the family took Amy to task for her actions with Minnie was cruel. Obviously they all seem to remember a life of high status or else they have adapted to this new one amazingly quickly.
I continue to be struck by Dickens beautiful prose in this section. The description of the descent from the convent in the morning was so well done. I think I will need to read his work on his travels in Italy.
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Great points everyone! Just to say that it is Edmund Sparkler, not Edward. Edward is "Tip", Fanny and Amy's brother.
Sorry about that Fiona. I misread your sentence. Sue, I’m with you, adding another Dickens title to my TBR to read his experiences in Italy.
I wonder what Blandois is up to? What could he be doing and is Mr. Dorrit his target? We know he’s a murderer but what else do we know about him other than he creates new names and personas for himself , he speaks English and French and is a cosmopolitan man.
Oops, sorry! Thanks, Jean. Edmund is a buffoon, not Edward. Although……….Sue - great point. This could indeed be Mr Dorrit’s true personality coming out. He felt superior even in the Marshalsea.
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I always think of him as just "Sparkler". Such a droll name, for someone who is decidedly not a bright spark!
Jean, now that Fanny is rich, Sparkler may well be encouraged to court her.
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Books mentioned in this topic
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Charles Dickens (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
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And will Amy be forgiven for fainting in her prison clothes? Somehow I don’t see Amy adjusting well to a frivolous life.