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Weekly TLS > What are we reading? 31st August 2021

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message 301: by AB76 (last edited Sep 11, 2021 06:39AM) (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Picking up on booklookers (296) Nazi book burning comment:

"The Burning of Books" by Bertolt Brecht (my amateur translation and formatting))

When the regime commanded t..."


thanks tam, wasnt aware of this list
Lovis Corinth is one of the most intriguing Wilhelmine artists i have come accross and am amazed to find his portrait of an actor playing Florian Geyer being declared "entartete". Looks like an innocuous painting, was Geyer not liked by the Nazi's? Maybe the artwork isnt respectful enough if the Nazi's liked Geyer?


message 302: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | -2209 comments Mod
Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Picking up on booklookers (296) Nazi book burning comment ..."

These comments made me think of a passage I've just read in Shadow City ...(#305):
The writer has been taken to the Kabul library by a young Afghan woman, Nazira, whose family had left for Pakistan when the Taliban took Kabul.
'Did people come here during the Taliban years too?' she asked in tones of astonishment. 'Yes,' replied the librarian, adding gently, but with a touch of reproof, 'people read even then, child.'
Much of the ruined library building, he said, had been repaired by Taliban officials, who mostly left the books alone after burning all the pictures they could find of humans and animals. Intriguingly, they had left the pictures in the anatomy textbooks intact, for students of medecine. 'They didn't have money, but they protected whtever remained after the civil war.' He pointed to the bookshelves around us. 'They put up these stands and painted the shelves.'



message 303: by Andy (last edited Sep 11, 2021 06:54AM) (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1473 comments Gpfr wrote: "yay! A parcel from Stanfords has just arrived:

Shadow City A Woman Walks Kabul by Taran N. KhanShadow City: A Woman Walks Kabul by Taran N. Khan

The Border A Journey Around Russia Through North Korea, China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Norway and the Northeast Passage by Erika Fatland



message 304: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1473 comments AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "yay! A parcel from Stanfords has just arrived:

Shadow City A Woman Walks Kabul by Taran N. KhanShadow City: A Woman Walks Kabul by Taran N. Khan

Without Ever Reaching the Summit A Journey by Paolo Cognetti.

You’ll be familiar no doubt with some on the shortlist.
The Border: A Journey Around Russia Through North Korea, China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Norway and the Northeast Passage mentioned above.
And my personal book of the year so far, Owls of the Eastern Ice: A Quest to Find and Save the World's Largest Owl.

The rest of the shortlist is here.. https://www.stanfords.co.uk/edward-st....



message 305: by Tam (new)

Tam Dougan (tamdougan) | 1086 comments AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Picking up on booklookers (296) Nazi book burning comment:

"The Burning of Books" by Bertolt Brecht (my amateur translation and formatting))

When the regime..."

Even Nazi supporters fell foul of the Entarte Kunst project!... Such as Emil Nolde. It seems that the Nazi's objected to the 'Modernist' imagery. I suspect that I have a huge catalogue of 'unpainted pictures' but merely down to laziness on my part... still I like the phrase somehow... a bit like unbecoming...

This is from Nolde's wiki page

Nolde was a supporter of the National Socialist German Workers' Party from the early 1920s, having become a member of its Danish section.[5] He expressed anti-semitic, negative opinions about Jewish artists, and considered Expressionism to be a distinctively Germanic style.[6] This view was shared by some other members of the Nazi party, notably Joseph Goebbels and Fritz Hippler.

However, Adolf Hitler rejected all forms of modernism as "degenerate art", and the Nazi regime officially condemned Nolde's work. Until that time he had been held in great esteem in Germany. A total of 1,052 of his works were removed from museums, more than those of any other artist.[7] Some were included in the Entartete Kunst exhibition of 1937, despite his protests, including (later) a personal appeal to Nazi Gauleiter Baldur von Schirach in Vienna. He was not allowed to paint—even in private—after 1941. Nevertheless, during this period he created hundreds of watercolors, which he hid. He called them the "Unpainted Pictures".

In 1942, Nolde wrote:

There is silver blue, sky blue and thunder blue. Every color holds within it a soul, which makes me happy or repels me, and which acts as a stimulus. To a person who has no art in him, colors are colors, tones tones...and that is all. All their consequences for the human spirit, which range between heaven to hell, just go unnoticed.[8]


message 306: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1473 comments @gpfr..
I can’t manage to reply to your post.
So..
I’ve read the Fatland. Really enjoyed it. I’m a big fan of hers.
Even better than this is her more recent work..The Border: A Journey Around Russia Through North Korea, China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Norway and the Northeast Passage


message 307: by Andy (last edited Sep 11, 2021 07:12AM) (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1473 comments AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "Checking in from 1900 metres up in the highest municipality in Spain, Valdelinares, a brief catch up on my reading in the last week.

[book:Without Ever Reaching the Summit: A Journey..."


You know me too well AB.
I certainly am.
I’m in an area nicknamed the Spanish Lapland, or how the Serranía Celtibérica is known, with territories belonging to 10 Spanish provinces, in all, 13% of the total area of Spain.
Several ares have population densities less than 1 person per km, less than Finnish Lapland, which is 2.
It is suffering from what is termed ‘Demothanasia’ (in Spanish), a process that due to political action, either direct or indirect, is causing the slow and silent disappearance of the population.


message 308: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1473 comments Can’t seem to reply to you either AB, re Stanfords.

You may have heard of the Award they sponsor AB.. I often mention it..
I’ve actually just finished this year’s winner and commented on it above, briefly.. Without Ever Reaching the Summit: A Journey.

You’ll be familiar no doubt with some on the shortlist.
The Border: A Journey Around Russia Through North Korea, China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Norway and the Northeast Passage mentioned above.
And my personal book of the year so far, Owls of the Eastern Ice: A Quest to Find and Save the World's Largest Owl.

The rest of the shortlist is here.. https://www.stanfords.co.uk/edward-st....


message 309: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1771 comments SydneyH wrote: "I'm feverish with book lust. I have a pile of seven books demanding my attention and there are so many others that I feel like ordering - a glorious predicament. Spring has begun and I'm feeling a ..."

Last night I sent a note to a reader friend about all the mysteries (bunches!) available at a near-by estate sale. She replied she had too many books and had decided not to buy more.

How could she! Certainly more backbone than I have. I mean how could one not pick up a paperback with the title - P.S. Your Cat Is Dead by James Kirkwood ?

I barely scratched the surface yesterday, so I am making time today for a second swing. If we ever get ahead of this damned virus, I want to take a train from Seattle to DC and then another NYC in May with books and museums in mind. A stash of expendable paperbacks will be a necessity.


message 310: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Andy wrote: "Can’t seem to reply to you either AB, re Stanfords.

You may have heard of the Award they sponsor AB.. I often mention it..
I’ve actually just finished this year’s winner and commented on it abov..."


thanks andy


message 311: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Andy wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "Checking in from 1900 metres up in the highest municipality in Spain, Valdelinares, a brief catch up on my reading in the last week.

[book:Without Ever Reaching the Summ..."


interesting, i know Spain, or used to know Spain well, especially the Green North but was not familiar with the area you mention.
Safest place to be in a pandemic, though i said that to Dandy when he was miles up in the Andes and the Cretan Holiday Runner aka Dominic Raab, hooked him and ordered him home. Ofc that was height of the first lockdown..


message 312: by AB76 (last edited Sep 11, 2021 07:45AM) (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Picking up on booklookers (296) Nazi book burning comment:

"The Burning of Books" by Bertolt Brecht (my amateur translation and formatting))

Wh..."


if i remember, there was a storm over Mutti Merkel having a Nolde painting in her office....due to pro-Nazi links. Nolde seems to have fallen foul of all sides


message 313: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1771 comments Andy wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "yay! A parcel from Stanfords has just arrived:

Shadow City A Woman Walks Kabul by Taran N. KhanShadow City: A Woman Walks Kabul by Taran N. Khan

[bo..."


Oh, dear - [book:Along the Amber Route|48739525] has gone on my unending list. And along the 'google-hole' to the Hanse and their locations throughout northern Europe.


message 314: by Tam (new)

Tam Dougan (tamdougan) | 1086 comments AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Picking up on booklookers (296) Nazi book burning comment:

"The Burning of Books" by Bertolt Brecht (my amateur translation and form..."


It's quite easy to fall foul of many denizens in the arts world. When I was at art college I was reprimanded by some of my more feminist fellow students and teachers for painting (a very few) female nudes, and reprimanded by 'old school' art fans, like my dad, who said, if I was going to paint nude women, I should at least make them look attractive!...

And then, when I studied art history for a while (Modernism) , I was very negatively treated by my (female) tutor for wanting to study the likes of 'Le Corbusier'. People love to 'know better' it seems. I'm not much of a fan of Nolde, quite like some of his landscapes and nature paintings, and use of colour but I wouldn't ban stuff I think, as it has the effect of expanding its presence in the human psyche, through the process of being banned.

I do think that everything should be up for critiquing though. So rather than say banning statues of slave owners in buildings, and public parks, I'd rather they were put in a museum and displayed with their whole history, including why they were being shuffled off into a less public, and more specialist space. That way we might still learn from them, and their history, and have a measure as to how our modern values have changed for the better (hopefully!) over time.


message 315: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1473 comments AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "Checking in from 1900 metres up in the highest municipality in Spain, Valdelinares, a brief catch up on my reading in the last week.

[book:Without Ever Reac..."


Are you still in touch with DandyLion?
I miss his slightly off the wall contributions to TLS.


message 316: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Andy wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "Checking in from 1900 metres up in the highest municipality in Spain, Valdelinares, a brief catch up on my reading in the last week.

[book:With..."


sadly no, i always wondered if he was on the same planet as the rest of us, he seemed to post random long messages, with slim relevance to the last post but generally with wit and grace. I dont think he joined us on Ersatz TLS


message 317: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 1896 comments Andy wrote: "@gpfr..
I can’t manage to reply to your post.
So..
I’ve read the Fatland. Really enjoyed it. I’m a big fan of hers.
Even better than this is her more recent work..[book:The Border: A Journey Aro..."


Go down to bottom right of page and select desktop version Andy.


message 318: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Picking up on booklookers (296) Nazi book burning comment:

"The Burning of Books" by Bertolt Brecht (my amateur transla..."


hear hear, modern england needs some german style coming to terms with the past too... i have no truck with the modern english tory resistance to change (their excuse for stopping the woke agenda) i think to educate and retain symbols of past movements with contextual notes and explanations is the best way foward

sadly ditch deep defensiveness from the tories means we are getting a pretty grubby reversal of maybe 30 years of slow progress towards educating the english people about their history and the fact that we havent been "rooolin ver waives" for at least 80 years or more and the fact that celebrating that "roolin" is not that bright.


message 319: by AB76 (last edited Sep 11, 2021 10:49AM) (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Finished Applebaums first book Between East and West: Across the Borderlands of Europe and thoroughly enjoyed it. Sadly 27 years later, many of these places remain in perpetual decay, seven decades of soviet mis-rule followed by three decades of neo-liberal Randism, with the state replaced by capitalism.

Next up is A Desert Named Peace looking at the violence of French rule in the Algerian Sahara from 1840s to 1902. When i was reading Larteguys excellent second novel on Algeria, a large section of the novel was set in the wild, empty Sahara and it reminded me i had this book in my pile

A Desert Named Peace The Violence of France's Empire in the Algerian Sahara, 1844-1902 by Benjamin Claude Brower


message 320: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 575 comments MK wrote: "She replied she had too many books and had decided not to buy more."

I'm not at that point just yet. I'm investigating bespoke bookshelves, so I can try to maximise the amount of available book space. I may implement a Library Retrieval System (boxes) for less essential books ... and I may have to get rid of some at some point. But I wouldn't dream of stopping buying books - it's such a special feeling.


message 321: by Sandya (last edited Sep 12, 2021 06:32AM) (new)

Sandya Narayanswami #21: This Body of Death. Elizabeth George

Interesting and well plotted but at nearly 1,000 pages, too long. However, I enjoyed it much more than “The Punishment She Deserves”. It took me about 4 days to get through it, along with my usual chores, work, and other stuff. Not sure I should regard a thriller as a sort of obstacle course.....with several hundred pages/day as a goal. The main irritants for me were Isabelle Ardery, Lynley’s new, secret alcoholic boss, and the fact that one of the main characters decides to run her own investigation. Naturally, being an idiot, she runs into trouble that is completely avoidable. Anyone with half a brain would have left well alone. I suppose I could write a longer review but I am already well into my next book.


message 322: by CCCubbon (last edited Sep 11, 2021 10:29PM) (new)

CCCubbon | 1254 comments Morning everyone.
This week’s Friday poem over on Photos ,Last night as I lay Dreaming,, is about travelling through space. I am thinking of sending it with the picture to my middle great grandchildren, all around 8-10 years old ( the eldest is almost 17 the youngest 2) I think it works for all ages but I am rather out of touch as it’s forty odd years since I worked in this sector, Any thoughts?
By the way just in case you have forgotten it takes almost 250 million years for the Sun to orbit the Milky Way.


message 323: by Robert (new)

Robert | 1018 comments I've been leafing through a new book: "The Dali Legacy" by Christopher Heath Brown and Jean-Pierre Isbouts. The writers place Dali in the general line of western art history by focusing on his careful study of different genres, and the old master paintings on display at the Prado museum in Madrid. Dali was a great admirer of Diego Velazquez, for example. William Adolphe Bouguereau may seem now like a pinnacle of 19th century bourgeois taste, but Dali appreciated his mastery of pen and brush.
Dali was always a master of self-publicity, but this book stresses his determination to master his craft.


message 324: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 575 comments I opened my copy of Ulysses for no particular reason. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I chuckle every time I see the list of anagrams Leopold Bloom made of his own name:

"What anagrams had he made on his name in youth?

Leopold Bloom
Ellpodbomool
Molldopeloob
Bollopedoom
Old Ollebo, M. P."


message 325: by AB76 (last edited Sep 12, 2021 01:41AM) (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments SydneyH wrote: "MK wrote: "She replied she had too many books and had decided not to buy more."

I'm not at that point just yet. I'm investigating bespoke bookshelves, so I can try to maximise the amount of availa..."


i will be in bespoke bookshelf territory soon, i own a modest small 1790 georgian house but the books vs space argument is going to slap me in the face soon, unless i do a ruthless purge of the shelves, as i'm not a re-reader, i'm loathe to do that as i may become a re-reader later in life.

Interestingly i have noticed in 2021 i have relied on my existing piles of books more than the last four years, instead of ordering new books that gazump others on the pile, i have largely stuck to the plan i sketched out in late 2020


message 326: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 575 comments AB76 wrote: "1790 georgian house"

Wow, that's about as historic as we get in Australia (settled by the English in 1788).


message 327: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "1790 georgian house"

Wow, that's about as historic as we get in Australia (settled by the English in 1788)."


yes, thats a good point!


message 328: by Shelflife_wasBooklooker (last edited Sep 12, 2021 04:27AM) (new)

Shelflife_wasBooklooker SydneyH wrote:
I've just been admiring The Post Office Girl and The Collected Stories of Stefan Zweig, thanks to your post. I may have to investigate.
I should say I have six demanding my attention - I'm currently reading The Princess Casamassima by Henry James, which is decent, though I covet the others. I have The Gothic Tales of Arthur Conan Doyle also, which I figure I can dip into whenever I feel in a rut. A delivery of five books arrived for me during the week: Childhood, Boyhood, Youth by Tolstoy; The Long View by Elizabeth Jane Howard; Of Love and Other Demons by Garcia Marquez; Slow Learner by Thomas Pynchon; and East, West by Salman Rushdie. The Howard is long, but the others are short.
Oh, that's a great, and seductive, list! I only read Conan Doyle and Rushie's East, West: Stories, most of the stories in which I liked a lot at the time. Hope you will continue to share your reading experience with all these choices.

Cabbie, the other day, wrote she enjoyed Zweig's The Post-Office Girl. I would be delighted if Zweig found some more, also-enthusiastic readers. He is not for every mood, though. But in your sprightly spring mood, I think (and hope) you would be o.k.!

This might be a good point to confess that I still have not taken up Flaubert's Salammbô again. After the elephants were massacred, too (a deeply affecting scene), I continued for a bit, but then simply could not any more. I will take it up again at some stage, I am sure. Just wussing, for now.

Here is an impressive sixteenth-century image of a war elephant: https://www.boijmans.nl/en/collection...
Poor animals - and poor humans! Found it in an art catalogue addressing Hieronymus Bosch's heritage and thought of Flaubert's Kathargo scenes immediately.


message 329: by Shelflife_wasBooklooker (last edited Sep 12, 2021 04:51AM) (new)

Shelflife_wasBooklooker AB wrote:
a great writer, i have a few collections of his novellas (nothing as lovely as your volume shelf, i love the gothic script!.
His life covered three worlds really
Yes, it did. It is so sad that he did no longer have the strength for waiting to see the end of the what was called a thousand years.

Ha, if you like Gothic script, I would recommend this: Asterix and the Goths (Asterix, #3) by René Goscinny . It is funny, if not exactly pro-German. (We can - have to - take it!)

Gpfr wrote:
The only Zweig novella I've read is Le bouquiniste Mendel which my daughter gave me some years ago - you're all spurring me on to look out some others!
Has anyone else seen the film about the end of his life, Stefan Zweig: Farewell to Europe? As I remember, it had mixed reviews at the time and I had mixed feelings about it, but looking back quite a lot of scenes have stayed in my mind.
Another good one (if I recall correctly), ta! No, I have not seen that film, but now I have at least learnt of its existence. (I am not strong on film, even less on biopics.)

Thank you for the quote from your current novel set in Kabul. I learnt something.

Georg, thank you for the contribution on Oscar Maria Graf and your translation.
It's important to remember these acts, too. And I did not know he was Bavarian!

Andy, great reviews, as ever.
I will reread Angela Carter's stories very soon.

Tam, thanks for the V&A list! It is interesting to see in this context. There was a recent exhibition on Nolde in Berlin: https://www.smb.museum/en/exhibitions... As you write, he does not come up too well. My friend was pretty disgusted with his various opportunist schemings (I can't judge yet, would need to read up on this more first.)
I agree on looking at the art, in any case.

Sydney: Like the anagrams, too!

Hushpuppy: I think I misremembered one of your lesser favourite novels, it was "24 hours in the Life...", not "Letter of an unknown Woman", right? Sorry about that. I have to say I could relate to the 24 hours story, with its sudden reversals and the re-view of life-changing moments later in life. But then I am getting old (B***** hope so, anyway, but not too quickly!). Siesta calls! (See?)


message 330: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "1790 georgian house"

Wow, that's about as historic as we get in Australia (settled by the English in 1788)."


if you are interested in novels by australians, i recommend Text Classics and i particularly recommend The Refuge by Kenneth McKenzie, The Refuge by Kenneth Mackenzie a novel of wartime Sydney, passion, murder and explorations of the soul


message 331: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1771 comments Sandya wrote: "#21: This Body of Death. Elizabeth George

Interesting and well plotted but at nearly 1,000 pages, too long. However, I enjoyed it much more than “The Punishment She Deserves”. It took me about 4 d..."


It's been a long time since I've read any of her books. I think the heft of them was too much for me. I miss Barbara, though.


message 332: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1708 comments Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "I would be delighted if Zweig found some more, also-enthusiastic readers."

I find myself much more inclined toward music than literature lately, but the Zweig comments have led me to restart my long-suspended project going through the Strauss operas chronologically, in conjunction with reading The Complete Operas of Richard Strauss. (The experience Die Frau ohne Schatten seems to have dampened my enthusiasm considerably – gorgeously overripe music, but I really find von Hofmannsthal extremely overrated as a librettist).

I will eventually get to Die schweigsame Frau, libretto by Zweig, which I haven’t heard in years. I generally like operatic pastiches, which this is, as I recall, but I remember being disappointed that Zweig and Strauss did not come up with an operatic coup de théâtre to parallel the one in Jonson’s play, which for me makes Epicene, or the Silent Woman one of the more memorable plays of the English renaissance.


message 333: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1771 comments AB76 wrote: "SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "1790 georgian house"

Wow, that's about as historic as we get in Australia (settled by the English in 1788)."

if you are interested in novels by australians, i recomme..."


I like Arthur Upfield's Bonaparte mysteries. Not deep, but since there were written mostly in the 1940s. there is a sense of Australia outside the cities at that time. Isolation comes to mind.


message 334: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Machenbach wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Has anyone else seen the film about the end of his life, Stefan Zweig: Farewell to Europe?"

Haven't seen that, but I did enjoy [book:Summer Before the Dark: Stefan Zweig and Joseph Ro..."


I was a major Roth fan about 2005-6, my grandfather and i shared an interest in the Hapsburg era and both enjoyed "The Radetsky March" but since my interest in Roth has palled somewhat and Zweig fascinates me more.

"Beware of Pity" for me is a better novel than the "Radetsky" , i read them close together but looking back the Zweig novel had more of an impact. I also am aware that while Zweig lived in the Hapsburg word, Roth only saw it as a very young man, especially before 1914.

Schnitzler remains the best author in my opinion of the Hapsburg era, with his plays and "The Road In The Open".


message 335: by Georg (last edited Sep 12, 2021 07:39AM) (new)

Georg Elser | 932 comments AB76 wrote: "Machenbach wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Has anyone else seen the film about the end of his life, Stefan Zweig: Farewell to Europe?"

Haven't seen that, but I did enjoy [book:Summer Before the Dark: Stefan ..."


As an aside: I've always wondered how and why the Habsburgs became Hapsburgs in the anglosphere. You do have the letter "b" in your alphabet after all..
And we don't call the Mountbattens Moundbattens. Or Mountbaddens...


message 336: by AB76 (last edited Sep 12, 2021 07:53AM) (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Machenbach wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Has anyone else seen the film about the end of his life, Stefan Zweig: Farewell to Europe?"

Haven't seen that, but I did enjoy [book:Summer Before the ..."


Its an interesting one Georg and i'm not sure where it crept in, whether its an american-english or not i'm unsure.


message 337: by Sandya (last edited Sep 12, 2021 08:04AM) (new)

Sandya Narayanswami MK wrote: "Sandya wrote: "#21: This Body of Death. Elizabeth George

Interesting and well plotted but at nearly 1,000 pages, too long. However, I enjoyed it much more than “The Punishment She Deserves”. It to..."


It isn't exactly the heft, but-an example, towards the close of This Body of Death, my edition has 3 pages of chat between the idiot running her own investigation and her 5 year old daughter. I'm sorry but I am not interested in chat with a 5 year old. Even Jane Eyre was 10 and she had interesting thoughts. The 5 year old did not. Maybe it was meant as a contrast to the parallel story of the 3 abused boys, but did it need to be this long? It should have or could have, been trimmed. I read the stories primarily for the interaction between Lynley and Havers and I wish there was more.


message 338: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Machenbach wrote: "AB76 wrote: ""Beware of Pity" for me is a better novel than the "Radetsky"."

Oof, that's a BIG call, and one with which I disagree, but I can certainly see how "the Zweig novel had more of an impa..."


Its a close call though Mach, i am not sure why Roth has soured so much on me, i finally read "The Emperors Tomb" last year and while it was a very good novel, it didnt entice me as much as i thought it would...


message 339: by Gpfr (last edited Sep 12, 2021 08:31AM) (new)

Gpfr | -2209 comments Mod
Georg wrote: "I've always wondered how and why the Habsburgs became Hapsburgs in the anglosphere..."

This made me curious enough to try and look it up. First I went to a history book - British English - it's spelt with a b.

Then I looked on line. In Merriam-Webster (so American usage) it says:
First Known Use of Hapsburg circa 1861

Quora has this (no idea how accurate it is):
Why do so many Americans still incorrectly spell "Habsburg" with a p?
Spelling the name Habsburg (which originates from the German language) as Hapsburg in English is merely an anglicisation of the name.
The anglicisation is there to reflect the fact that, in German but not in English, the sound /b/ is devoiced to /p/ in speech (but not in writing) at the end of words or, as in this case, at the end of a syllable where the next syllable begins with a consonant. So, even in German, it is always written as Habsburg but actually pronounced more like Hapsburg.
This process of automatic devoicing of /b/ to /p/ in speech at the end of words or of certain syllables does not happen in English. So, some English-speakers write this name as Hapsburg, which yields the correct pronunciation of the name in both English and German, but following the rules of English spelling, rather than of German spelling. As such, Hapsburg can be considered as a simple anglicisation of the original spelling in German, Habsburg.



message 340: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "Hushpuppy: I think I misremembered one of your lesser favourite novels, it was "24 hours in the Life...", not "Letter of an unknown Woman", right? Sorry about that."

No worries at all. These are the bottom two for me (again, of a very high quality heap), so no harm done! I put 24 hours at the bottom simply because I don't remember much of it at all, and now that you mention the themes in it, I suspect that I was simply too young (late teens) for it to resonate with me. Letter on the other hand is a bit facile, but impactful (see the "heartstrings" aforementioned). I'd be interested in revisiting 24 hours (but not my favourite ones) to see if a more mature (ohum) me rates it higher.


message 341: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Gpfr wrote: "Georg wrote: "I've always wondered how and why the Habsburgs became Hapsburgs in the anglosphere..."

This made me curious enough to try and look it up. First I went to a history book - British Eng..."


aha, american-english influence then


message 342: by Tam (new)

Tam Dougan (tamdougan) | 1086 comments Machenbach wrote: "Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "Ha, this is great! Love the writing in the paintings, too. Is it names only?."

Yes, I think so, but my language skills aren't great: I think it's written in a sligh..."


I dunno, but I think that Gentileschi having been raped by her tutor, and then going to court over it, and having a rather terrible time in the court case, might have set her mind into a particular framework, in terms of the portrayal, and Caravaggio, having apparently murdered someone, in a brawl, might possibly explain the difference in portrayal of violence, as a revenge tactic, or not... perhaps? Maybe I am being too much of an individualist in thinking it might make a difference...


message 343: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 932 comments Gpfr wrote: The anglicisation is there to reflect the fact that, in German but not in English, the sound /b/ is devoiced to /p/ in speech (but not in writing) at the end of words or, as in this case, at the end of a syllable where the next syllable begins with a consonant. So, even in German, it is always written as Habsburg but actually pronounced more like Hapsburg.

No, we do not pronounce it with a p. We might if the preceding a was short, but it is long,
Apart from that: proper names are proper names. The English might not be able to pronounce them correctly, but they have no right to change the spelling. Call me petty, but for me that always reeks of the colonial mindset of old.


message 344: by AB76 (last edited Sep 12, 2021 11:03AM) (new)

AB76 | 6949 comments Georg wrote: "Gpfr wrote: The anglicisation is there to reflect the fact that, in German but not in English, the sound /b/ is devoiced to /p/ in speech (but not in writing) at the end of words or, as in this cas..."

another common mis-pronounciation i find is brits saying AsBerger rather than AsPerger, it might be the reverse of the HaPsburg/HaBsburg situation, though in this instance its a clear spelling issue...more than just pronounciation

As for German to English names, it always intrigues me that Koln=Cologne, Munchen=Munich, Wien=Vienna, Braunschweig=Brunswick. For a fellow language from the Germanic tree, we have made something more musical of Koln and Wien. I think Cologne may have derived from the latin Colonia


message 345: by Gpfr (last edited Sep 12, 2021 11:58AM) (new)

Gpfr | -2209 comments Mod
Georg wrote: "The English might not be able to pronounce them correctly, but they have no right to change the spelling. Call me petty, but for me that always reeks of the colonial mindset of old. ..."

Georg, according to what I cited, not the English in the first place, but the Americans. 😉 As I said, in the British-published history book, it's Habsburg.
And I agree with you about changing the spelling.


message 346: by Georg (last edited Sep 12, 2021 12:08PM) (new)

Georg Elser | 932 comments Gpfr wrote: "Georg wrote: "The English might not be able to pronounce them correctly, but they have no right to change the spelling. Call me petty, but for me that always reeks of the colonial mindset of old. ...."

You made it quite clear indeed, my bias apparently got the better of me :-( Sorry.


message 347: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 932 comments AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Gpfr wrote: The anglicisation is there to reflect the fact that, in German but not in English, the sound /b/ is devoiced to /p/ in speech (but not in writing) at the end of words or, ..."

Agree about Vienna and Cologne.


message 348: by Georg (last edited Sep 12, 2021 12:17PM) (new)

Georg Elser | 932 comments Tam wrote: "Machenbach wrote: "Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "Ha, this is great! Love the writing in the paintings, too. Is it names only?."

Yes, I think so, but my language skills aren't great: I think it's..."


I always imagined that her rapist probably looked like her Holofernes.


message 349: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 575 comments Machenbach wrote: "I'd be interested to hear how you get along with The Princess Casamassima"

Yes, I think it's shaping to be a pretty good book, along the lines of The American or Roderick Hudson. Though I think those two have a kind of decadence that The Princess Casamassima doesn't have, because it deals more often with dinginess in urban London, rather than lush scenery in Europe. I was just thinking yesterday that The American is possibly James's best book, but Maisie is possibly his best text - and I don't think The Princess Casamassima has much to offer as a Jamesian text.


message 350: by SydneyH (last edited Sep 12, 2021 02:52PM) (new)

SydneyH | 575 comments Machenbach wrote: "does some of the same stuff better in The Bostonians imo"

Gee, I'm not sure about that. I thought the Bostonians was a bit of a stinker - I'm backed up by the general critical and commercial response, but F.R. Leavis apparently thought it was amazing. Though The Bostonians has probably aged a bit worse with its depiction of early feminists.


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