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What are we reading? 31st August 2021
Bill wrote: "A map from Paramount Pictures showing where various locales were filmed while remaining within reasonable distance of Hollywood,"
Interesting. I wonder where 'Wales' was/is on that map, and what film used the location.
Some time ago, I came across a site showing locations used (and usually renamed) in Raymond Chandler's 'Marlowe' novels... it may be of interest to afictionados. If I ever return to LA (unlikely) I'll try to take the tour:
https://la.curbed.com/maps/raymond-ch...
Very many thanks to @Shelflife for commenting on, quoting from and posting a link to
by Carlos Maria Dominguez. The link is at https://issuu.com/hiennguyenngoc76/do...
for those who may be interested in this brief out of print work. I read it in a couple of days, in between other ongoing stuff.
It's an odd story about a book collector whose love for books gets out of control, and was enjoyable for the many precise comments on reading and book collecting - @Shelflife has already posted quite a few of these. I suspect that even more could be got out of the book by anyone with a better knowledge of South American authors than myself, and who has read Conrad's
(I haven't), but the bizarre tale held my attention. I recommend taking a look at the online version, rather than forking out for a second-hand copy!
@Shelflife_ ... you asked for my wife's thoughts on Intrigue à Giverny... as I indicated, she wasn't much impressed, and gave up on it. Here's her brief review:The subject matter seemed appealing, drawing on some of my interests for Romans policiers and Art, especially Monet. It promised evocative settings, Paris, Giverny, the French Riviera. So I gave it a good try. 100 pages later, I had lost interest. I never really got into it to be truthful. The style was far too wordy for a roman policier, but then I was spoilt with Simenon. The constant stop and start due to too much punctuation interrupted the flow of sentences, that was annoying, affected. Then the intrigue-plot seemed slow to move. By then even references to Giverny and Monet seemed artificial. Not blending into the plot. So I lost it, and closed the book 🤷♀️
I'm sure I've asked this before and forgotten, but do we have any Irish Murdoch fans in the house? I want to know what her best book is.
SydneyH wrote: "I'm sure I've asked this before and forgotten, but do we have any Irish Murdoch fans in the house? I want to know what her best book is."It’s many a year since I have read her books although I do remember that the first one that I read was The Bell. I liked it so much that I went on to collect and read all the novels as they came out and they still sit on my shelves, I haven’t given them away.
Her plots are always complicated with rather fraught characters. I found The Sea, The Sea hard going.
Mod
I'm rather ashamed to realise how little I remember. I read them 40 years or more ago. I know I started with Under the Net and liked it enough to continue. I knew I had that and The Sea, the Sea, but had to go and check what others are on my shelves: The Time of the Angels and The Sandcastle ... I also read The Flight from the Enchanter and read and liked The Bell. This isn't very helpful I'm afraid!
Not the beginning of a novel, but probably the most original prologue to one:One night Mack lay back on his bed in the Palace Flop house and he said, “I ain’t never been satisfied with that book "Cannery Row". I would of went about it different.”
And after a while he rolled over and raised his head on his hand and he said, “I guess I’m just a critic. But if I ever come across the guy that wrote that book I could tell him a few things.” ....
http://3-113.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/2...
@Julian(#13): thanks for a beautifully written review. I am not too keen on short stories in general, but I am just rekindling my love for Steinbeck and your "sales pitch" is irresistible.
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Like CCCuban and Gpfr, it has been a good long while since my 'Murdoch Phase'. Looking over her titles, I'm going to suggest A Fairly Honourable Defeat, which I see was nominated for the Lost Booker Prize.
@Anne. Thanks for the mention. It was good to be back at the Ed Bookfest, though am having to adjust to the new venue. Times change, and we must also. Did have a few words to say to an unmasked person on the bus! As well as Francis Spufford I saw ( live streamed) a wry A L Kennedy with Bernard MacLaverty, and onstage the Graun’s own Charlotte Higgins, who was most enlightening and entertaining on the continuing relevance of the Greek Myths. Didn’t get a ticket for Kazuo Ishiguro, but mustn’t be greedy. Have seen him before. Lovely feller. Must admit to still having low level anxiety over getting out and about, but certainly at the Bookfest masks and distancing were observed. I believe someone, @Georg?, mentioned Al Murray. First saw him in Edinburgh in his first incarnation of the Pub Landlord some years ago, and it took me a while to realise it was a spoof persona! You probably know that he is an Oxford graduate, and descendant of Thackeray?
Currently reading Penelope Fitzgerald’s The Bookshop,.
SydneyH wrote: "I'm sure I've asked this before and forgotten, but do we have any Irish Murdoch fans in the house? I want to know what her best book is."I didn't realise that Murdoch hailed from the Emerald Isle - you live and learn! I like your pretend typo...
As for her books, I read a small number a long time ago - the one I liked best was 'Under the Net' - her first, I think. 'The Sandcastle' was OK, I thought, but nothing special... and 'The Sea, the Sea', like so many Booker winners, was well-nigh unreadable, and I'm not at all convinced that I bothered to finish it.
Lass wrote: "Currently reading Penelope Fitzgerald’s The Bookshop."Let us know what you think - is it towards the top end of the Fitzgerald scale (Offshore -haha! Just realised I dissed the Booker - again - in my previous post. Judges aren't the same year on year, though)... or towards the bottom - Human Voices? She seems quite inconsistent, IMO anyway.
Good to hear of MacLaverty's presence - is he working on anything? He's published far too few novels.
Georg wrote: "Not the beginning of a novel, but probably the most original prologue to one:One night Mack lay back on his bed in the Palace Flop house and he said, “I ain’t never been satisfied with that book ..."
I'm a big fan of Steinbeck as well, and I give a thumbs up for 'The Red Pony'... well worth a read. The curious thing is how he portrayed such great relationship/friendships between say 'The boys in the flop house' and the reality of how much he was resented, perhaps even disliked. by his son. I have his son, John juniors book somewhere and it is a very morose and somewhat whiney memoir of his growing up in the Steinbeck household ... 'famous parental eclipse' syndrome?...
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Lass wrote: "I believe someone, @Georg?, mentioned Al Murray. First saw him in Edinburgh in his first incarnation of the Pub Landlord some years ago, and it took me a while to realise it was a spoof persona! You probably know that he is an Oxford graduate, and descendant of Thackeray? "It was Mach Lass, in response to Georg's comment. I then said that for a while after moving to the UK, I hadn't understood that his was a satirical act... Glad to hear I was not the only one! Had no idea he was an Oxford grad (ah! upon checking: both him and Stewart Lee are from Teddy Hall) but yes, he's very eloquent and articulate in the interviews I've seen of him.
Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that closed the road for a few hours, but our house is uphill from that on a gentle slope. No loss of power - that sometimes comes with high winds which our neighborhood avoid this time - so our basement didn't flood. Our neighbor's garbage can floated away; I'm going down to the creek to see if I can find it.
SydneyH wrote: "I'm sure I've asked this before and forgotten, but do we have any Irish Murdoch fans in the house? I want to know what her best book is."I'm a fairly recent convert and dedicated member of the Iris Murdoch fan club. She's great, but she can get a bit repetitive in her go-to tropes and a little too much in love with her philosophical underpinnings. So, I wouldn't tackle a large swathe of her books in one large gulp (but then again I don't do that with any author).
I think her best is still her first, Under The Net , but I also really enjoyed The Nice and The Good as well as The Bell with The Black Prince nearly as good. My next TBR is my yearly Iris book, A Word Child , which is a crap title.
Mod
That's good news. Hoping for the best for your neighbor's garbage can. ;)
Lljones wrote: "Bill wrote: "We got through OK...."That's good news. Hoping for the best for your neighbor's garbage can. ;)"
All my friends in the Lehigh Valley, not far from Bill, seem to have escaped largely unscathed too.
Bill wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that closed the road for a few hours, but our house is uph..."
Glad to see you are ok Bill...the images on the news here looked pretty bad for parts of PA
I hate to admit it but my latest diary read is Jeffrey Archers A Prison Diary:Pt 1 Hell
from 2002.i loathe Archer as an author and as a Tory no-gooder but am interested in how the arrogant and the entitled adjust to their come-uppance and i wonder if fellow disgraced tory Aitken wrote a book too?
The style is unctuous and sanctimonious in places but more self aware and sometimes rather more poignant than i expected...its a short book, covering his time in bellmarsh after conviction for perjury
I just started re-reading an enormous biography of Edith Wharton by Hermione Lee which I bought and last read in 2008. I enjoyed it very much. I have always enjoyed Wharton but now, re-reading it, one wonders what exactly is the relevance to today's world of the writings of a very wealthy, white, extremely privileged, cold, snooty woman who never knew any hardship. I don't think I would have liked her as a person and I doubt she would have seen me as human. There is nothing in her books about race for example. Here we are, dealing with race, climate change, technology, space travel, science, covid, terrorism, and so forth. What can Wharton possibly add? It suddenly struck me as completely irrelevant. I mean, who cares about Old New York? Good riddance to an elitist, racist, at the same time deeply provincial and blinkered culture.I was just reading about all her undistinguished, inert, stuck up, rich relations, living off their 3%s and sitting on important NYC boards. I am at the stage of my career where with my quals, I should be on boards, but I am never asked because I am a POC. I am on one board. I am tired of seeing yet another silly blonde idiot get these plum assignments.
Thanks everyone who replied to my Iris Murdoch request (sorry about the typo). @LL, that lost Booker had The Vivisector and Troubles on it as well - just think how much better the Booker would be if it was always retrospective.
SydneyH wrote: "Thanks everyone who replied to my Iris Murdoch request (sorry about the typo). @LL, that lost Booker had The Vivisector and Troubles on it as well - just think how much better the Booker would be i..."I had a copy of "Troubles" for many years but cant find it now, Farrell is an interestingwriter in that all his slim collection of novels have topics i am interested in. I must read one of these soon....
Sandya wrote: "struck me as deeply irrelevant."I would argue that Wharton is still relevant because of the quality of her prose. She was one of the major writers of her generation.
SydneyH wrote: "Sandya wrote: "struck me as deeply irrelevant."I would argue that Wharton is still relevant because of the quality of her prose. She was one of the major writers of her generation."
Im sorry but prose quality or style alone isn't enough on its own. I edit professionally-there has to be content. I mean, who really CARES about those lazy useless Buccaneers for example? Henry James is another. Who cares?
Sandya wrote: "Who cares?"Lots of people cared and still care - that's how classics work.
Bill wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that closed the road for a few hours, but our house is uph..."
I'm interested in your tale as to how well read the 'unibomber' was, apparently. Is it known as to whether he had particular religious beliefs, or not? I am curious, but don't want to make assumptions... as such...
Tam wrote: "Bill wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that closed the road for a few hours, but our..."
Oh and one more question. Is where you are a known flood risk area? (glad to hear that you escaped inundation) but it is another of my curiousness questions, as I have been looking at places that flooded recently, and they used to be fairly predictable, confluence of two rivers, low lying ground etc. But I am finding examples, whilst looking at global cases, of seeing places that have flooded that had no previous form... so to speak...
Sandya wrote: "SydneyH wrote: "Sandya wrote: "struck me as deeply irrelevant."I would argue that Wharton is still relevant because of the quality of her prose. She was one of the major writers of her generation..."
People do care Sandya , especially with the status that Wharton and James have in the western canon of literature. I'm no fan of James, i like Wharton but they both have a lot to say about their times and lives, well written and well expressed....
But i do hear you on the racist side of things and the world of race privilege..
Tam wrote: "Tam wrote: "Bill wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that closed the road for a few ho..."
My local town(in SE England) has a large meadow area that was saved from the developers about 10 years ago, when the floods came thrice in the last 16 months, the meadows soaked up all the floodwater as they are supposed to do. Although 2 of these floods were the worst since 1969
The problem i find is when flood plains are built on and concrete fails to let water drain away, something which the UK is very sloppy at.
AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "Tam wrote: "Bill wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that closed the road ..."
I was writing articles 20 years ago, in various building/architectural/town planning magasines, warning against building in flood plains, amongst a whole lot of other 'things'. It made not one ha'penny's worth of difference, it seems, in terms of general planning permissions, which makes me feel like some sort of ancient dinosaur.
But it is different for places with a known flooding risk. I am curious about the places that have no history at all, of flooding. Your local fields were there historically to absorb the excess, and well done the town, for fighting off the developers, but the thing that I am trying to grapple with is the new 'unknowns'. How is climate change making previously unthreatened places, vulnerable? I don't know... but I would like to know...
Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Tam wrote: "Tam wrote: "Bill wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Hey, @BillinPA: let us know how you weathered storm Ida."We got through OK. There was some flooding about 1/2 block away that clo..."
from my laymans perspective, the ferocity of the rains where i am have become alarming, the flooding that briefly threatened the street i live on in Feb 2019 (for first time since 1969), was due to almost 7 days of heavy rain, which also occurred last summer, again incredibly heavy, consistent rain in a short period. Climate change seems to be increasing the intensity of rainfall so that natural and man made barriers are pushed to the limit
Sandya wrote: "SydneyH wrote: "Sandya wrote: "struck me as deeply irrelevant."I would argue that Wharton is still relevant because of the quality of her prose. She was one of the major writers of her generation..."
A good story and well-drawn characters are never irrelevant, and The Age of Innocence remains a good novel.
I'm skimming several books at present. Craig Fehrman's "Author in Chief" tells the story of American presidents and the books they wrote. Fehrman tries to tell both the story of American presidents and American books, and comes darn near pulling both things off. Good character sketches, interesting observations. John Adams to Benjamin Rush: "From the memoirs of individuals, the true springs of events and the real motives of actions are to be made known to posterity."
Though Fehrman finds that an author's first book, whether autobiography or not, is the most revealing. Teddy Roosevelt's first book was a serious study of military history-- the naval war between Britain and America in 1812-1814. Woodrow Wilson's was a serious study of American government when it was still dominated by Congress.
I have more dipping in to do in this charming book.
Tam wrote: "I'm interested in your tale as to how well read the 'unibomber' was, apparently. Is it known as to whether he had particular religious beliefs, or not? I am curious, but don't want to make assumptions... as such..."The Unabomber grew up in a Midwestern US family in the 1940s-50s who were not members of any religion and, as far as I’ve read, had no religious beliefs at all. Ted Kaczynski seems pretty much to have kept to that pattern, though his younger brother, David, whose memoir I read, became a Buddhist as an adult.
I’m not living in a flood-prone area, though the confluence of two creeks is nearby and tends to flood the adjacent roadway, briefly, when there are heavy rains. This was one of the heaviest since I’ve lived here, and the road was closed for only an hour or two. On my walk this morning, there wasn’t that much sign of how heavy this rain was except some large pieces of trees lying creekside at various points and a park bench with concrete sides and wooden boards forming the seat and back that had been lifted by the water and moved about 6 feet. On my walk I saw an unusual sight – a quintet of foxes. I sometimes see one, two or three together on very rare occasions; it occurred to me later that they might have been out and visible because their earth(s) had been flooded.
Sandya wrote: "...prose quality or style alone isn't enough on its own..."I'm with you on this one - giving no examples, but I draw the line at books devoting three or four pages to the living room carpet...
No, seriously, if the story is uninteresting and has no relevant moral or philosophical points, but is purely about style, I could not be bothered.
Conversely, if there is a story, or a good point, but the book has a dreadful style - I can't read it either.
(As for James - never been tempted; I read one Wharton, and decided that it was insufficiently interesting to read another.)
Robert wrote: "I'm skimming several books at present. Craig Fehrman's "Author in Chief" tells the story of American presidents and the books they wrote. Fehrman tries to tell both the story of American presidents..."I take it that Trump: The Art of the Deal will be your next read? ;-)
Bill wrote: "I’m not living in a flood-prone area, though the confluence of two creeks is nearby and tends to flood the adjacent roadway, briefly, when there are heavy rains."Good to know you escaped the worst of it.
If anything 'good' can come from this awful event, it is to be hoped that the American people come to accept that climate change is real, that it must be combated, and that the measures needed will be unpopular and expensive. It feels as if too many in the USA are climate change sceptics - either because, like Gove, they choose to ignore the experts, or for cynical reasons to do with the price of the shares they hold or the directorships many may have in fossil-fuel companies. The USA may no longer be prepared to act as 'world police', but can still do great good in terms of legislating for and investing in climate-friendly technology - so long as the political will is there. That in turn depends, to some extent, on public opinion.
I would argue Wharton is still relevant for the precision with which she dissects the mores and predations of the American 1%, however much she was a part of it herself. Wealthy white elites dominate the US now as they did then; indeed their wealth and power has shown remarkable continuity and staying power - they are, if anything, even more entrenched now. Certainly wealth disparities are wider than ever. Insights into how such a society functions are still relevant, in my view.
I haven't read Wharton yet but I understand Sandya's feelings. I question myself sometimes about my enjoyment of similarly insular or class-bound fiction set in the upper echelons of society and featuring characters who quite probably wouldn't give me the time of day if I met them or their counterparts in real life.I think I approach things of this sort almost as something like science fiction: an alien world that I'll never encounter in real life (and would probably be sorry if I did!) but that is nonetheless fascinating for that.
And yes, the quality of the prose does count quite a bit for me - not that I claim to be any sort of objective judge, but if something reads well to me, if I find pleasure in the way the words are put together, that's going to weigh with me.
Paul wrote: "SI'm a fairly recent convert and dedicated member of the Iris Murdoch fan club. She's great, but she can get a bit repetitive in her go-to tropes and a little too much in love with her philosophical underpinnings. So, I wouldn't tackle a large swathe of her books in one large gulp (but then again I don't do that with any author).I think her best is still her first, Under The Net , but I also really enjoyed The Nice and The Good as well as The Bell with The Black Prince nearly as good. My next TBR is my yearly Iris book, A Word Child , which is a crap title."
My experience is similar but I'm much farther behind: I read The Sea, the Sea several years ago (2013, looked it up out of curiosity) but never really became enthusiastic about Murdoch until a year or two ago when I went back to some of her earlier stuff: I've read only the first two novels so far, but I definitely consider myself a fan.
But you know, I couldn't have found The Sea, the Sea all that bad, or I wouldn't have tried anything else of hers afterwards - so I would differ a little from the negative reactions of other Murdoch readers. But I do agree that it pales in comparison with those two first efforts. Looking forward to reading The Bell very soon, within the next few months.
Machenbach wrote: "Georg wrote: "I also think it is an even more naive idea that anything at all, let alone anything better, could be achieved by changing the books to be more 'inclusive' aka NOT written by white +/-..."I read that the ‘read a book’ sentence is being challenged as too lenient.
The young man in question is reported as being rather a loner. Whether this is true or not we have no way of judging without more information. It might be that the judge was trying to spare him prison and the possible horrors that a good looking young man might find there if he thought there was a chance of reform.
We hear too often of lonely young men committing suicide, or becoming isolated because they do not feel that they ‘fit in’ , maybe they have never had a girlfriend and rage against all women in frustration.
Maybe reading books is not the answer but at least he will be getting regular attention from the judge every four months and that is worth something. I do feel that young men like the accused need help and our mental health services are very stretched.
The choice of books could easily be widened, that’s not a problem.
I do agree with your comments about stupidity and fear.
Bill wrote: "Tam wrote: "I'm interested in your tale as to how well read the 'unibomber' was, apparently. Is it known as to whether he had particular religious beliefs, or not? I am curious, but don't want to m..."a quintet of foxes, wow, does sound like their earth(s) had been flooded and a sign of how nature is devastated by these climate events as much as the fixed human environment
the USA has had a pretty deadly climate change influenced summer, it doesnt bode well for a nation with space but larger and larger urban settlements.
CCCubbon wrote: "Machenbach wrote: "Georg wrote: "I also think it is an even more naive idea that anything at all, let alone anything better, could be achieved by changing the books to be more 'inclusive' aka NOT w..."The "Incel" movement is a real danger, even a cursory scan of some reddit forums reveals quite violent levels of hatred for women and that these women should be available for these incels and satisfy their lusts. Sometimes i think incels reflect the way ISIS treated women
Machenbach wrote(#75)But there's little evidence that treating them all as uniformly and incorrigibly stupid does anything other than entrench them in their positions.Exactly. The problem is that people who do not share their beliefs cannot understand them, which makes communication difficult, if not impossible. I think irrationality has nothing to do with intelligence in the first place. Lots of extremely intelligent and rational people belive in God/Allah...
We can, and often do, go to great lenghts to convince them. I have been there and done it with my sister (who wouldn't fit the types of antivaxxers you described). I decided the best approach would be a non-confrontational non-judgemental one, asking questions, arguing with facts and numbers.
I think we, who are on the rational side, have fallen for a fallacy with at least a touch of hubris: we do not understand them, yet we expect them to understand us.
scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "I'm skimming several books at present. Craig Fehrman's "Author in Chief" tells the story of American presidents and the books they wrote. Fehrman tries to tell both the story of Amer..."No, neither Trump nor Biden, nor the fiction canon of Bill Clinton, appeals to me. Nor have I scanned the works of Boris Johnson, though I'm sure there is thrilling stuff there.
McCullough's Truman biography is a good book; he quotes Truman as protesting "I'm not a writer." What Truman did instead was to fill his memoir with quite a number of period documents.
Stephen King thinks that every writer has some ideal reader. Theodore Roosevelt's ideal reader was his wife Edith, who excised any personal references to their home life and children. The one really interesting chapter in Roosevelt's autobiography was his account of his mediation of a major coal miners' strike/ management lockout, which was becoming violent. Roosevelt describes himself as confined to a chair by injury, but doesn't describe the collision that put him there. (Thanks, Edith!)
Roosevelt's most revealing work is said to be his nature writing.
John Quincy Adams was a US diplomat between assignments when Napoleon returned from Elba and marched toward Paris. John Quincy, a good writer, left a most interesting account of the outward mood of the Parisians as Napoleon approached, culminating in the Emperor's appearance at a performance of a favorite opera. (He missed the first act.) John Quincy, being a persistent fellow and an Adams, was there to watch, and with great interest. He could not guess what the real feelings of the French were or how deep their loyalty to Napoleon was....
Sandya wrote(#76): There is nothing in her books about race for example. Here we are, dealing with race, climate change, technology, space travel, science, covid, terrorism, and so forth. What can Wharton possibly add? I really can't follow your argument.
Wharton was never on my radar. From some comments I gather she was part of and wrote about the upper-class. Why and how would or should or could she write "about race"?
Should I now discard every American and/or European and/or (modern) classic that doesn't deal with race?
Or/and, as to your next point, does not ADD anything to the understanding of contemporary problems?
Robert wrote: "No, neither Trump nor Biden, nor the fiction canon of Bill Clinton, appeals to me. Nor have I scanned the works of Boris Johnson, though I'm sure there is thrilling stuff there."I do hope - and assume - that you realise I was joking about your reading Trump... I do tend to joke a lot, and not everyone realises the comments are made tongue in cheek!
Of course, there is definitely 'thrilling stuff' to be had from Boris Johnson, if it is to your taste: Seventy Two Virgins. Personally, I prefer '76 trombones'. In my crazier moments, I like to imagine that suicide bombers have mis-heard the words of wisdom of their leaders, and instead of 72 virgins, they end up with trombones instead - and an extra four, to boot!
Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBQWs...
Have been discussing with the sprog alternative 'relevant' books for the young man who has just been sentenced to reading the 'classics' as his punishment for engaging in downloading right-wing extremist white supremacist material off the internet.My suggestions are Anne Michaels 'Fugitive Pieces' The video 'Dougal and the Blue Cat, and 'Horton hears a Who' by Dr Seuss.
Has anyone else got some ideas?
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Needed something nice as my car goes in for repairs on Friday, someone having run into the back of it a week or two ago, and the electrics on my boiler have started playing up. I am rather hoping I may have sorted it by resetting the hot water programme but am not confident.