What are we reading? 16th August 2021

[SydneyH]

AB76 wrote: "He is easily been the most unsettling of novelists i have read."

I've just read all the stories and The Sheltering Sky. I think he is an extremely underrated writer of short stories, harrowing though they may be.

[AB76]

SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "He is easily been the most unsettling of novelists i have read."

I've just read all the stories and The Sheltering Sky. I think he is an extremely underrated writer of short stories, ..."

yes, i totally agree and recommend him to all Ersatzers!

[Tam]

SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "He is easily been the most unsettling of novelists i have read."

I've just read all the stories and The Sheltering Sky. I think he is an extremely underrated writer of short stories, ..."

A film was made, of 'The Sheltering Sky', by Bernardo Bertolucci, in 1990. It is a haunting film. I can't say that I liked it, but it left a very definite impression. Very strong sense of 'foreign' places, both internally and externally... alienation on many levels...

[AB76]

Tam wrote: "SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "He is easily been the most unsettling of novelists i have read."

I've just read all the stories and The Sheltering Sky. I think he is an extremely underrated writer of..."

i have resisted watching that film as i loved the novel so much but i think its time to watch it. I feel Bowles has always been underrated as an author and for the work he did in translating some local authors in North Africa.

At one time Tangiers had quite a few of the Beats lurking about with Bowles

[[deleted user]]

“Pale Horse, Pale Rider” – Katherine Anne Porter (1939)

Memorable title, words from an old song, and a memorable story in 70 swift pages about a young woman reporter and a young officer who meet as he is about to leave for France in 1918. Influenza strikes. There is a rapid descent. Yet inside there is a fiery particle that burns with the will to live. A powerful piece to put alongside The Pull of the Stars.

[Bill]

From a New York Times article on books coming in September:

Their lengthy, erudite emails to one another leap from cultural and philosophical engagements to chatty inquiries about romantic partners. One email captures the mood of the novel succinctly: “I agree it seems vulgar, decadent, even epistemically violent, to invest energy in the trivialities of sex and friendship when human civilization is facing collapse. But at the same time, that is what I do every day.”

Can you guess the book or author?
(view spoiler)[
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/bo...
(hide spoiler)]

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "for me there are levels of objectivity or elements of such in works of fiction or non-fiction but of course pure objectivity is like chasing a rainbow..."

One person's 'objectivity' is another person's bias... no?

[Veufveuve]

Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: Ideally i would like an objective modern novel about Afghanistan

How would you define "objective novel"?"

I'm also finding the idea of an objective novel extremely discombobulating.

[Veufveuve]

Apologies, I commented very soon after rising, barely awake, not realising I wasn't on the last page and thus not realising a whole debate had already been had. AB, I'm afraid I am utterly unconvinced by your definition of an objective novel. You acknowledge that seeking objectivity in novels is like chasing a rainbow. I recommend giving up the chase.

[Veufveuve]

Russell wrote: "“Pale Horse, Pale Rider” – Katherine Anne Porter (1939)

Memorable title, words from an old song, and a memorable story in 70 swift pages about a young woman reporter and a young officer who meet ..."

Just brilliant. I have been loudly telling everyone I can that they must read this. Uncannily, I read it in 2019, shortly before the plague years burst upon us.

[Robert]

scarletnoir wrote: "Georg wrote: "Ha! Read both ages ago and liked them . Recently I have picked up some vibes shouting (more or less): they are kitsch and liking them is really embarrassing.
Now I do not dare re-read..."

Years ago, Russell Baker created a character named The Great Mentioner. When a politician's name was mentioned as a presidential prospect, The Great Mentioner was the one responsible. The Mentioner may have given up politics-- the quality of names mentioned has dropped drastically in recent years-- and gone on to mentioning writing now considered passé.

[SydneyH]

Veufveuve wrote: "I am utterly unconvinced by your definition of an objective novel."

Maybe AB was thinking of 'Naturalism' in the Zola sense, rather than Objectivism.

[Veufveuve]

SydneyH wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "I am utterly unconvinced by your definition of an objective novel."

Maybe AB was thinking of 'Naturalism' in the Zola sense, rather than Objectivism."

Perhaps, though I'm sure AB intended objectivity, rather than Randian Objecitivism?

[SydneyH]

Veufveuve wrote: "Randian Objecitivism?"

Ah, I'm not familiar with Randian Objectivism. I meant Objectivity.

[Veufveuve]

Objectivism is what Ayn Rand called her "philosophy," a distinction probably worth making in this context.

[giveusaclue]

scarletnoir wrote: "One person's 'objectivity' is another person's bias... no?"

Absolutely right, I'll have to remember that phrase. Bit like the "my truth" a certain couple like to use.

[FranHunny]

Bill wrote: "I was never one to drive by an ex’s house after a breakup, so since the discontinuation of TL&S I haven’t visited the Guardian of my own volition, though I have looked at the articles linked to her..."

I do not think of the Guardian as of an Ex. But they no longer fulfill my book needs.

I still like some pieces in there, a lot on the Lifestyle pages, a little bit of football and occasionally even some news.

So I am one of those who (rarely though) drags a link from there over here.

Likewise, when there was a regular column of Rhyk Samadder testing kitchen devices nobody needs, there formed a bubble BTL - which has created their own social bubble on wordpress.

As of next month I am not paying a contribution to the Guardian anylonger (I let it run out naturally). And won't until they reinstall TLS. But I am not going completely without Guardian. I am just commenting far less.

[AB76]

Veufveuve wrote: "Objectivism is what Ayn Rand called her "philosophy," a distinction probably worth making in this context."

Veuf, i agree, i'm chasing rainbows, elements of objectivity is probably better!

As for Ayn Rand, i would never use any of her strange brew of ideas, which i'm sure we all have in common!

[AB76]

As i continue to enjoy Thomas Jeffersons 1785 study Notes on the state of virginia i continue to wonder how a revolutionary american personality appeared to the british and especially their educated british equals.

Personally i find Jefferson far more readable than almost all the english thinkers and writers of the 1770-1800 period. I may suggest his simpler style was a reflection of colonial roots but i know that would be false, as he was as educated as an Oxbridge grad of the same era and a widely read and curious thinker.

Jefferson, while of solid Anglo-Saxon stock certainly seems to me to fit into the French enlightenment way of thinking more than British, with his deism and belief in seperation of church and state. Rousseau and Diderot would seem to be his influences more than Burke, Johnson or Gibbons

[AB76]

SydneyH wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "I am utterly unconvinced by your definition of an objective novel."

Maybe AB was thinking of 'Naturalism' in the Zola sense, rather than Objectivism."

Naturalism/Realism are the more popular and common styles that i enjoy, yes. I think i have leapt down a rabbit burrow with my objectivity idea, maybe i need to write a book on it!

[AB76]

Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://www.vintag.es/2021/08/berlin-...

[Veufveuve]

AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "Objectivism is what Ayn Rand called her "philosophy," a distinction probably worth making in this context."

Veuf, i agree, i'm chasing rainbows, elements of objectivity is probab..."

Re: Rand, absolutely! - which is why I was keen to make the distinction on your behalf.

[CCCubbon]

AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://www.vintag.es/2021/08/berlin-..."

Have a look at the images on the London1940 page to contrast.

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight..."

Maybe they hadn't entered that phase, yet.

In the meantime, in the UK we have Boris Johnson standing in front of a positive jungle of union flags whenever possible. As if that was not enough, we also have this:

All UK government buildings in England, Wales and Scotland will fly the union flag every day, following new guidance from the culture department.

Currently flags are only required to be flown on certain days such as the Queen's birthday.

Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden described the flag as "a proud reminder of our history and the ties that bind us".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...

What was it that Samuel Johnson said again?

(Educational note for Dowden: Wales is not represented on the union flag!)

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight..."

Maybe they hadn't entered that phase, yet.

In the meantime, in the UK we have Boris Johnson standing in front of ..."

my loathing for Boris Johnson is boundless and i find the flag waving modern little Englander revival nauseating

[AB76]

CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://www.vintag.es/2021/08/berlin-by..."

is there a link for that CCC?

[AB76]

Veufveuve wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "Objectivism is what Ayn Rand called her "philosophy," a distinction probably worth making in this context."

Veuf, i agree, i'm chasing rainbows, elements of objectiv..."

thanks Veuf! i trust all is well in the state of Denmark (not rotten)

[Shelflife_wasBooklooker]

AB wrote (#394):

Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

Hi AB, Michael Sobotta, born in 1949, is not the photographer, but a collector and archivist of many photographs. The photographer appears to be unknown.

I am not sure, as not too familiar with his work, but it is possible some swastikas have been taken out.

When seeing such "everyday lives" photographs from this time, I immediately think of what is not being shown of this everyday that was so cruel to many:
https://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/...

https://www.akg-images.de/CS.aspx?VP3...

I know you are aware of this, and I am sorry to bring down the mood, but I can't let it stand like this.

Edit on reading scarletnoir: Flying the swastika flag started very early.
Oh dear, let's not start with Boris Johnson. I have read a lovely book. Will return soon to tell you about it.

[AB76]

Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "AB wrote (#394): Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....
Hi AB, Michael Sobotta, born in 1949..."

Good points Shelf and thankyou, not bringing down the mood at all, you have supplied useful context about the images. I wondered who Sobotta was, makes sense now.

[CCCubbon]

AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://www.vintag.es/..."

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lon...

[Georg]

AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://www.vintag.es/2021/08/berlin-..."

Yes, it is amazing that not everybody lived in places like Charlottenburg, isn't it?

I am rather amazed that all but 2 photographs show a Berlin that had no resemblance to how the majority of the population, the poor working-class, lived.

[AB76]

CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://w..."

thanks CCC

London has always been a bit of a mess in my opinion, with elegeant smart suburbs cheek and jowel with less salubrious ones...when i lived there between 1996-99, i was appalled at the vandalism disguised as architecture that was inflicted on the city. Of course the bombs in WW2 disfigured huge swathes of London but the lack of care in restoring the capital always stunned me.

When i briefly lived in Berlin in 1999 i was suprised at how well reconstructed streets in the west were, resembling the pre 1945 styles.

[AB76]

Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections look....

https://www.vintag.es/2021/08/berlin-by..."

i was remarking on the state of pavements, streets and decor in some of the images, a reflection on the smoke and mirrors of Nazi illusions of a master state

[AB76]

I havent read many travelogues this year, apart from Morris in Iceland(which am still reading) but i have just started Anne Applebaums Between East and West a study of her travels in the early 1990s, around the old Eastern Bloc.

I travelled in the old east between 1995-99,which revealed to me the slow westernisation and the insidious grasping claw of capitalism plundering the lands. I found regions of pristine natural landscape, beautifully preserved towns and welcoming pleasent people in Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Southern Poland, there was also the downside of the severe pollution in Czech and Polish Silesia. Food and drink were cheap everywhere..but of excellent standards

It will be interesting to see what Applebaum observes a few years earlier.

[CCCubbon]

AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown some sections lo..."

The same thing happened after the Great Fire in 1666, all the grand plans came to nothing and people filled in. Similarly after the war, there was a housing shortage and filled in, not really planned. For me it’s part of the charm but then I admit to bias living in London until I was as old as you are now apart from the time as an evacuee but even then often back.
Much of the housing stock destroyed was Victorian slum and there were prefabs all over the place as temporary accommodation. Still families lived in a couple of rooms with a cooker on the landing for some years.

[AB76]

CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Selection of photos from Berlin in 1940, not a Swastika in sight, photos taken by Michael Sobotta

Amazed at how rundown som..."

Interesting CCC
I found an interesting online essay on Kensington about a decade ago, where it suprised me to find that the majority of the grand white terraces were built as flats/'apartments from the outset in the 1850s. Grand flats of course at lower levels but i had imagined they were all houses with servants up top family below.

The huge blocks were built on garden land which had been sold off, part of other estates, clay pits and the like and spanned out from the original site of the Imperial Institute and other buildings, some of which have now been demolished. The V+A, Science and Nat Hist musuems remain

[Veufveuve]

AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "Objectivism is what Ayn Rand called her "philosophy," a distinction probably worth making in this context."

Veuf, i agree, i'm chasing rainbows, el..."

Yes, thanks, though it's been a disappointing August and is especially dreary today - sodden and chilly. My reading remains lacklustre, for some reason. Yesterday, the government announced the lifting of all remaining internal restrictions (to be honest, there were very few left anyway) and declared the pandemic not over but no longer a "critical threat" to society. We'll see ... though I do trust them to reverse course if necessary. Handling of the pandemic has been extremely impressive throughout.

[Lass]

Fun, interesting, highly enjoyable event with Francis Spufford at the Ed Bookfest yesterday. Loved Golden Hill, and looking forward to reading Light Perpetual.

[AB76]

Veufveuve wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "Objectivism is what Ayn Rand called her "philosophy," a distinction probably worth making in this context."

Veuf, i agree, i'm chasing..."

Shame about the weather, any reasons for lacklustre reading? Are you more active than August 2020, i have read less due to having a fairly intense August(well it feels intense compared to Year Covid aka 2020)

Glad you have a govt you can trust, i have no faith in Boris and his gaggle of clowns on covid

[Shelflife_wasBooklooker]

AB wrote (#402):

not bringing down the mood at all, you have supplied useful context about the images. I wondered who Sobotta was, makes sense now.

Ta, AB!


@ Bill & Fran: Ha, I had the same impulse regarding the tertium comparationis - I don't pay my exes to continue (some of) the good work, and, erm, not even my partners.


Georg wrote (#363):

I think it must have been the Breitenbach translation I read then. What do you think of it?
If I only could read 20 pages of Voß, Breitenbach, von Albrecht and Fink each I could make up my mind...."

Yes, that might be best. Can't offer you 20 pages, but at least Rösch and Breitenbach in comparison as regards the "House of Sleep" section in Metamorphoses I posted recently. (Incidentally, there is also a novel by Jonathan Coe titled The House of Sleep.)

https://i.postimg.cc/Df1FHt8J/Breiten...
https://i.postimg.cc/FzXv1xnH/Breiten...
https://i.postimg.cc/kGNmStkF/R-sch-E...

While I think Breitenbach's version is o.k., I have to say that, on comparison, I prefer the English prose version I posted here the other day, taken from https://ovid.lib.virginia.edu/trans/M...
(translator: A.S. Kline)

[Shelflife_wasBooklooker]

Bill wrote (#359):

It’s been bothering me that I didn’t recognize the first sentence of (view spoiler), even though I read it relatively recently. I think that it was intended to be a sort of epigraph that foreshadows or summarizes the experience of the novel, but for me it rather overstates the “time recaptured” nature of the retrospective narrative that it introduces (it also has a somewhat SF feeling to it which is not sustained in what follows). No doubt that was the author’s intention, but for me that opening sentence bit off more madeleine than the novel could chew.

In light of the quiz, I’ve also been thinking about what makes first sentences memorable.

There are some that make a generalization in a pithy manner that sticks in the mind: “All happy families …”, “The very rich are different …”, “It was the best of times …”.

Others throw the reader headfirst into a strange situation, “One morning Gregor Samsa awoke …”, “It was my eighty -first birthday, and I was in bed with my catamite …”

Love the discussions spinning off from Anne's question, and then the quiz.

You are making good points, again! And I am sure you know you are not alone in the not-recognizing. You saw what the others wrote on this, and I was very surprised on reading that opening passage, too. As it is a book I read twice (I think), you would think that the passage should have been recognizable to me! I get what you are saying about the SF direction of this specific quote and thought it might be misleading myself.

Of course, we could ask, more generally, how important first sentences really are, all in all? I am sure it differs, not just regarding our respective opinions, but also from work to work.

Sorry, not sure if I am expressing myself clearly. I am inordinately tired today. No sun at all, and neither exercise nor caffeine have been helping to feel me more awake the last couple of hours. Definitely time to practice , then.

[Bill]

Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "Of course, we could ask, more generally, how important first sentences really are, all in all? I am sure it differs, not just regarding our respective opinions, but also from work to work."

I once read How to Write a Romance and Get It Published which gave the advice that your first chapter sells this book and your last chapter sells your next book. If that’s the case, I guess I would think that the first sentence sells the first chapter.

I do get the feeling that authors tend to give special weight to the first sentence – it can grab the reader’s attention or set the tone or declare a theme in a way that, in later pages, may be compromised by whatever material precedes it. If a book becomes a favorite with a reader, a well-turned opening sentence can serve to re-evoke the whole experience of reading. (This may be true of some bad books as well, I’ve seen critics quoting the opening of The Da Vinci Code as a way of encapsulating their scorn.)

When contemplating buying a book which I’m unsure about at a used book sale, I usually open it at random and start reading – I then ask myself, “Do I see myself having read umpty-seven pages of similar prose and still eagerly continuing with what I’m now reading?”

[AB76]

For all the fans of Sarah Orne Jewett, i have finished The Country of Pointed Firs and i loved it. The coastal lives, the characters, the descriptions of the pines, rocks and sea, plus the tone of pragmatic, wistful american prose was sublime.

Sandya mentioned it was nice to have so many old folk central to a novel or novella and i agree. These wizened faces and long lives are central to the themes of the novella, they are the voices of the community.

My Barnes and Noble edition (acquired secondhand via Book Depositry) includes a dozen other stories and four about Dunnets Landing, so i will now read the four other stories, i can see that William(the bachelor from Green Island) is featured and i think that Almira Todd makes a return.

A lovely summery read...CCC, if you havent read it yet, i think you would love this...

[MK]

Robert wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Georg wrote: "Ha! Read both ages ago and liked them . Recently I have picked up some vibes shouting (more or less): they are kitsch and liking them is really embarrassing.
Now I..."

Ahh -Russell Baker. Who couldn't love - Growing Up? Just, wistfully, took it of the shelf.

Unfortunately, under ILL deadline (don't you even think about the word, renewal) with Princes, Pastors and People: The Church and Religion in England, 1500-1689.

[Tam]

Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "Bill wrote (#359): It’s been bothering me that I didn’t recognize the first sentence of (view spoiler), even though I read it relatively recently. I think that it was intended to be a sort of epigr..."

Not all siestas are the same...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeWeS...

This Maya Deren's short film, 'Meshes of the Afternoon' from the early 1940's... a left over memory from my art college days. Hope yours is a lot more restful. Though I note that there is a poppy starring in it... Is it thinking... or feeling?...

[AB76]

William Morris in Journals of Travel in Iceland(1871) is reminding me of the forbidding landscape and the cool of the Northern Summers.

I have reached the section on the Snaefellness pennisula , which i visited a decade ago and am reminded of the snow lying on the peaks in June, the mirror like waters and the stony beaches, alongside the complete lack of a human presence.

Iceland can appear hostile without any intent but then appreciation of the awesome beauty kicks in, the vast open spaces, the incredible mountains and the small, isolated farmhouses dotted in the flatlands or beside the empty highways.

Service stations were a food choice hazard if you found any on long drives, usually serving a variety of whale, reindeer or mutton in a kind of 1970s buffet, populated by one or two truckers...in 1871, it was even wilder and less populated

[Sandya]

AB76 wrote: "For all the fans of Sarah Orne Jewett, i have finished The Country of Pointed Firs and i loved it. The coastal lives, ..."

Glad you enjoyed it too!

[AB76]

Sandya wrote: "AB76 wrote: "For all the fans of Sarah Orne Jewett, i have finished The Country of Pointed Firs and i loved it. The coa..."

the extra stories should be fun as well, my copy is secondhand and has lots of underlined sections and a few notes that i cannot read, must have been a student copy

[Julian]

My review of -- The Wanderers / Richard Price.
As natural and unforced as breathing, Price's book about underprivileged teenagers in sixties New York crackles with smart dialogue (a rich vernacular), and is so well structured, conjuring the interplay of the teenage gangs as their lives come gradually into focus through startling debacles, familial conflicts and rites of passage. The author knows these kids and their parents inside out. He knows their neighbourhoods, the architecture of their lives. He writes a kind of camerawork over the scenes such that echoes of American Graffiti and Amarcord tremble across the page. A great debut back in the seventies.

[[deleted user]]

Bill wrote: "From a New York Times article on books coming in September:
Their lengthy, erudite emails to one another leap from cultural and philosophical engagements to chatty inquiries about romantic partners..."

Got that one instantly, Bill. I, sadly, now have finely tuned antennae (I'm knackered, are antennae tuned? haven't a clue) when it comes to this writer. Determined not to read the damn book. Two were more than enough for me.