Beta Reader Group discussion
Writing Advice & Discussion
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How do I get motivated again?
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Megan wrote: "I've been in a rut all year because my health issues have just been wearing me down. The typical advice I see online about this sort of thing is put the writing on hold until later when everything ..."You too? I'm going through the same dark night. I have a trilogy that is almost finished final polish, another two-thirds through initial draft, a clear plot outline for a sequel to the trilogy, and another strong idea for a separate novel. Not counting a Beta-read that is overdue and which I feel obliged to finish before I touch the other things.
A not-very-healthy winter plus Covid lockdown has turned me into a blob.
Just yesterday, I posted a request for a co-writer. One person answered, we did a brainstorm, and I started to write after 2 weeks of procrastination. Maybe, discussion with a buddy writer can help? Writing while discussing, then editing together. In respect to author's rights, ofc
Megan wrote: "I've been in a rut all year because my health issues have just been wearing me down. The typical advice I see online about this sort of thing is put the writing on hold until later when everything ..."So sorry to hear that you're going through both of these things! Health stress does not create for easy happy, carefree writing.
As you may know, there are many many angles for tackling this form of writer's block. Many advices will say "put it off" but there are plenty as well that say "the only cure for writer's block is to write." For me, putting off writing altogether is like death. It made it ten times harder to get back into it later. XD So, some thoughts:
Write about nothing. Or force yourself to write what you want to want to write (lol, did that make sense? ;) ). The idea behind the latter is that you just gotta push through the spiderwebs to be able to feel the original sunlight again.
When I was in Junior year of HS, and so many things in my life went to crap, my love for writing was also in jeopardy. For the full year, I think. I analyzed and analyzed what was wrong. It was probably a lot of things, honestly, but I forced myself to finish that novel even when I didn't feel it, and eventually I had true passion again (I can't remember when, but I know I was in loooove with writing the following novel).
It could also be that you're being too hard on yourself. I will recommend watching the Studio Ghibli movie "Kiki's Delivery Service" for all artist's block problems, but this kind in particular. You may need to step back and allow yourself to rediscover why you fell in love in the first place with writing. Allow yourself no obligations when it comes to writing for a while, besides that you must write *something*. Write about the crappiest, most cheesy, dumb thing. Take huge, bad risks. Write for nothing but itself—word count or novel be hecked. Soon enough, you may find every bit of passion and more to get back into your more serious, longer projects.
I find mindless, meaningless roleplay with my characters and someone else also helps inspire me again or keeps me inspired.
Listening to songs that connect to your novel or characters is also great for inspiration and motivation.
But ultimately, it might be important to relax. Your talent or passion has not left you for good, and there is no timebomb on your motivation or inspiration. It WILL come back to you. <3
Fyri wrote: "Megan wrote: "I've been in a rut all year because my health issues have just been wearing me down. The typical advice I see online about this sort of thing is put the writing on hold until later wh..."Thanks for the response! I've never had much interest in watching Studio Ghibli films before but I might check it out if you say it helps with loss of passion.
I don't know that I could do that roleplay thing you suggested. I can get inside my character's heads while writing them but as some goofy fake convo or whatever is just odd to me.
I do have playlists for both of my current projects but I could probably do with more songs on both.
Recently I figured that adjusting my weekly schedule so that each day is dedicated to a specific task (writing a certain project one day and another project some other day; reading one book on day and another book the next, etc) might help get me energized again by giving my days some variety and add some eagerness for those writing days like how I'm eager for the newest episodes of my current favorite show each week (it's literally the only thing that seems to get me hyped anymore and I can't help but wonder if it's because it's a single day event).
Thanks for everything you said. Hopefully some of this advice helps and hopefully I end up liking Kiki's Delivery Service.
Geo Is A reader wrote: "Just yesterday, I posted a request for a co-writer. One person answered, we did a brainstorm, and I started to write after 2 weeks of procrastination. Maybe, discussion with a buddy writer can help..."I recently joined a writers' discord so maybe that will help get me motivated to write more. Thanks for the input!
Megan, I Ghostwrite and proofread. I would be glad to bounce ideas around. I love character and story development and am very honest in my feed back. Send me an email if you wish to discuss further.
mycattopaz@gmail.com
Alice
Alice wrote: "Megan, I Ghostwrite and proofread. I would be glad to bounce ideas around. I love character and story development and am very honest in my feed back. Send me an email if you wish to discuss furthe..."
You misunderstand. I'm not stuck on anything. I just don't feel like I have the energy/motivation/whatever to write. I still know what I want to do with this story and where it's going. (I'm a plotter so it'd be weird if I didn't) I'm just not feeling in the mood to write and wanting advice on how to get back in the swing of things.
Sorry to hear you are in a motivational block (which is not a writer's block so putting it off won't help anyways).What really motivates me most of the time is watching youtube, specifically authortube. Like authors giving advice about certain things (some of my favourites to watch are Hello Future Me, Writing with Jenna Moreci, Alexa Donne, and Brandon Sanderson), author vlogs where they prepare for publication or are doing rounds of editing (like polandbananasBOOKS), and interviews, lots of interviews!
If that isn't something you'd like to do, here are a few other ideas to get back to writing:
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• Reread the last chapter (or reread the whole book, even better), this may help you get back on track from where you left off—continuing a story is much easier when you reread recent additions/changes.
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• Watch or read something new, try reading a genre you haven't before. This can serve as palate cleanser and freshen up your mind, making it easier to return to writing your own novel. (Not entirely sure if that would help you, since I mostly recommend it to authors with writer's block, but it might be worth giving a shot and maybe even try writing a short story in a genre you don't usually write. Who knows? It might get you back on track and excited.)
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• Reread or watch your favourite things, may it be a book, movie or TV show, especially if it's something from your childhood. Nostalgia can be quite inspiring and powerful!
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• Go for a walk, get closer to nature, watch the people around you. First of all, this is healthy. And second of all, you can get so many ideas out of simply watching the world around you. Plus, fresh air is a perfect tool to clear your mind. (Don't know if your health conditions can actually allow this, so sorry in advance if that's not an option.)
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• Daydream. Dream about what you want to achieve with your writing. Imagine getting what you long for. That always does the trick for me, I'm a sucker for dreaming about my success XD
Hope these help ❤
Suzanne wrote: "Hi Megan! For me I wait for the ideas to come, and as I walk around, they come at the absolute weirdest times, then I scribbled them down for later. I have written 4 picture bks this yr when I was ..."Thanks for the advice. Hoping it works.
Alexa wrote: "Sorry to hear you are in a motivational block (which is not a writer's block so putting it off won't help anyways).What really motivates me most of the time is watching youtube, specifically auth..."
These are good tips. I'll see if any of them work for me. Thanks!
You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You also mention you don't feel motivated to even read, so what I am thinking is, it's probably more motivational than actually physical sickness. If that is the case, then I suggest going back to the beginning and maybe re-read some books that had you excited before. Also ask yourself, when was the last time you felt good about writing? Think about that time maybe.
Sometimes, I get down because someone who has BETA read something that I wrote criticizes my writing harshly. I had one guy say he could tell of my writing that I don't have any formal training and even if he didn't say it, he meant my work is very unprofessional and another guy said after I sent him an example of my work said, I should get an editor before I have people BETA read my work.
If this has happened to you, don't worry what other people think. You know in your own mind whether what you write is good or not.
Regards,
J. Harrison
Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You also mention you don'..."
Okay, first of all, holy crap. I am so sorry you got that kind of feedback. That is irresponsible of a beta (whom it is in my long term understanding and belief that you should seek betas BEFORE an editor. Like, betas are called "beta" for a reason. You are the alpha-reader (write the first draft, then edit what you can on your own) and they are the beta (the very next people after you to see your work). Also, lol, formal training? Pffff... Okay, how many professional writers have "formal training"? And for a beta to expect that in the draft they receive? I hope they were free betas, because that kind of feedback is anti-constructive. Glad you were able to get through it!
Second—Megan! I hope you're doing better? Yeah—the dedicating a day to writing sounds like an excellent approach too! Great for building up motivation. I have heard of it before as well. I hadn't thought to mention it because I've never been able to work on a schedule like that myself. XD Ah, ADHD.
But! You might try doing writing prompts on that day too, if nothing comes to you for your books at first. I find a lot of daily ones on Instagram or Twitter, but you could probably find some good ones just by Google too. My dad recently got the journal "Writing Prompts" from Opalhouse/Target, and it seems cool, though Idk if you can get that where you are.
Also, I second Alexa's mention of Hello Future Me on Youtube. Beautiful, beautiful channel.
Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You also mention you don'..."
I am a professional editor and I'm shocked that there are beta readers (I, too, hope they were free beta readers) who expect to read an edited story. Even ARC readers shouldn't expect the novel to be completely edited since it's an early review copy that will be edited again if the need arises and a lot of the times is sent out before the copyedit or proofread (depending on the situation and publisher). Beta readers are used before/after a developmental edit and/or before a line edit to get feedback on the big picture and overall experience. Professional beta readers will not expect an edited piece of work because we know that it's useless to spend money on copyediting BEFORE a developmental/line edit, since SO MUCH will be changed. It's literally a waste of money and I tell this to every client I stumble upon because some authors tell me beforehand that there are errors in their manuscripts (and I'm like, "well, duh, of course there're gonna be errors, you're literally in the beta reading stage!"). Any editor will tell you the same thing unless they're trying to scam you (or if they're just not experienced themselves, then they might just not say anything). No one should hire a copyeditor before the story is fully structured and complete in the developmental sense. I am actually enraged at what happened to you because this is just idiotic "advice". ISTG this is just... ugh I can't...
If you look up the definition of copyedit you'll actually find it is stated that a copyedit comes AFTER all the developmental and line editing. BECAUSE THERE'S JUST NO SENSE TO DO IT ANY OTHER WAYYYY OMGGGGG.
It does sound like this beta reader is a free and unprofessional one. Professional beta readers will give you actual critique, not just blandly point out that "it's (not) good" and be done with it. If you paid money for this I'd be very sad.
While, of course, it is always best to try and edit everything yourself before sending out manuscripts to beta readers, just to make it a bit easier on their eyes, it is still okay to have errors, more than okay. Not everyone is a native English speaker and can edit their own work properly. Omg, I am so worked up over this!🤦♀️
Alexa. I can't help laughing :) You are so funny --- and SERIOUSLY, so CORRECT! I'm a paid beta and proofreader. I can't point to a thing you've said that I can't agree with. I try to remind my authors that they have errors, that it's totally expected at the beta point, in the hopes that they will realize they need a proofread (even if they don't hire me), as so many self-edit these days and I may be the last person in a position to give them advice. I do point out repetitive errors so they can improve, but I can spend days trying to figure out just how to give an author "constructive" advice they weren't expecting in a way that will not only not discourage them but help them move forward with their story.
It should be noted that it takes experience to handle these sometimes difficult situations and the learning curve can be steep for new betas. My early days as a free beta were certainly a learning experience, and I do think the author does bear some responsibility to select betas based on their needs, not every beta is meant for every manuscript. I take issue with the idea that any person can effectively beta every genre, and even with paid betas the author shouldn't base their decisions on price alone. It's a hard but important choice for any author.
Sue wrote: "Alexa. I can't help laughing :) You are so funny --- and SERIOUSLY, so CORRECT! I'm a paid beta and proofreader. I can't point to a thing you've said that I can't agree with. I try to remind my aut..."I genuinely despise the idea of one beta being "right" for absolutely any story, seriously marketing themselves that way. You can't possibly be right for every story, every genre. The more focused you are on a certain niche and group of topics, the better, more qualified, and professional are your services going to be. The broader your accepted genres and topics, the less actual experience you're gonna have with particular themes, tropes, trends, etc. And that's not only in beta reading and the publishing industry, this applies to absolutely everything. The more things you're trying to tackle, the less the chance that anything is actually going to turn out right.
As a teenager I had a ridiculous amount of hobbies, but as I grew up most of them just fell away, and only the ones I was best in and was genuinely interested in stayed, turning into my profession or something I can use for my career.
It's like zooming in on a map, the further away you are, the less you actually see. But at a closer look, you'll be able to see countries, cities, streets, buildings, just more detail.
I only accept manuscripts I'm 100% sure I can help improve. If I think that I can't add any constructive critique and help develop it into a better version while probably still liking the story, I just won't accept it. I might tell the author "let me know when it's published, I'd be happy to give it a go and potentially write a review", but I won't take an author's money if I believe it'd be wasted on me.
I like to believe that my dedication and devotion to the stories I work with is what got me such amazing clients. I'm actually working with a client right now who is just the sweetest woman. I literally rave about her to my whole family. Not only do we have great discussions about her book and outside of work, but she actually sees the amount of work I do, how invested I am, and literally scheduled me in advance for the next book (which isn't even finished yet) for a manuscript critique and two types of edits, saying that she only wants to work with me. Even after I told her that there are people who would be better at it since I'm still fairly new in the industry. That literally made me cry. This is the professional relationship I wish for everyone to have.
PS: I totally forgot where I was headed and what we even were talking about while writing this 🤦♀️
PPS: Thanks for calling me funny, I like to think it's true when I'm probably not actually all that funny 🤣🤣🤣
Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You also mention you don'..."
It's a physical ailment. My legs swelled up a lot earlier this year with massive unexplained bruising which is to say the entire lower leg became swollen, firm, painful, and a dark purplish and greenish color (or if you ask my mom it turned black). I also got diagnosed with anemia which required two or three blood transfusions and also led to a 4 day hospital stay both for the anemia and the leg issues which has made it difficult to walk for months, though it is getting better to the point there's virtually no pain and also no bruising/swelling.
Doctor consensus is that my diet was so shit that vitamin deficiency screwed up my blood to the point I developed a bruising disorder. Which I originally thought was crazy until I noticed my gums getting red and swollen so looking up swollen gums I came across scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) which included the symptoms of anemia, bruising, leg pain, joint pain (knees), and on some sites petechiae (tiny red dots on skin that I also had on my legs but didn't think was a symptom of anything).
And since my diet this past year has basically been granola bars, rice, and spaghetti (with the occasional other meal of like steak or chili or ravioli or whatever) and the symptoms started improving tremendously after I started drinking orange juice, yeah I'm pretty sure I had scurvy and when I saw my doctor to get his opinion he didn't object to the theory and did say that drinking orange juice more (and possibly taking a multivitamin) might be beneficial.
So yeah, not a motivational, all-in-my-head sickness. Like, I am legitimately ailed in a physical way. The motivation isn't the cause of the ailment, it's a symptom of being exhausted from having to deal with leg pain and decreased mobility for months on end. Though my mental health has also taken a dip this year because the physical ailment and rounds of testing wearing me down (2 CT scans, a pulmonary ultrasound, countless blood tests, a colonoscopy, and endoscope [the last two were to see if I had any sort of bleeding in my digestive tract because of a different issue that they thought might've been connected to the anemia issue]).
Yikes. I've had bad beta reader feedback too. This one beta reader suggested I cut two major characters from my story. One was the entire focus of book 3, as in book 3 and the plotlines from the end of book 2 through book 3 and even a bit into book 4 from the fallout would not be able to exist if they did not exist. And the other character was arguably the most layered character in the whole series and would also have been the focus character for the 6th and final book in the series. I could not cut any of my characters even if 6 MCs is a lot. It just wouldn't work for the story that was being told.
They also told me to switch around the personalities of the white girl and black girl characters because I had the white girl be a science nerd and the black girl was good at fighting. But if I switched their personalities I'd also have had to swap their backgrounds which would've meant putting the white girl's alien abduction trauma on the black girl and instead of the black girl being the only one of the main 6 without some sort of hardship in her background, the one and only white protagonist would've been the only one without trauma or sadness in their origins.
I think sticking with the original personalities and backgrounds worked best because it wasn't like I made the black girl the angry black girl stereotype. She was the bubbly, energetic, and kinda reckless character. A different beta also suggested I try incorporating one character's gayness into the plot to justify them being gay because apparently gay people need an excuse to exist in fiction unlike straight people and the beta tried to justify this advice by stating (well my gay kids find gay characters just existing in a story offensive unless...) which was not great.
So yeah, betas aren't always right about everything.
And yeah, I know that what I write can be good but with this one project I've been working on I keep hitting snag after snag with regards to it having been poorly outlined or poorly paced or whatever which keeps sending me back to the outline to revise the whole plot. Just yesterday I wrote what was supposed to be 6 chapters worth of conversation into a single chapter. (Did I seriously write my outline to have 6 chapters of just conversation? What is wrong with me?)
Also, I have like the shittiest memory out of anyone I know so trying to remember the last time I felt excited about writing is basically impossible for me.
Fyri wrote: "Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You als..."
Dedicated whole days to writing seems to be helping a lot. Last Friday I wrote close to 3600 words in a day and yesterday I wrote a little over 2500 words (probably would've been more yesterday but I hit a snag with my story veering off the outline and me noticing the outline needed reworking anyhow).
Me and writing prompts don't mesh at all. Prompted writing just doesn't get the creative juices flowing for me. I've been able to force myself to write something whenever we did prompted writing in school but it isn't something I would ever apply to my original professional writing life. It just saps the creativity from my brain and makes me feel crammed into a box of conforming to someone else's idea.
But yeah, I've seen Hello Future Me's channel a couple times. It looks good. I might need to subscribe to it later. Thanks!
Fyri wrote: "Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You als..."
Also, yes, I am doing better thank you!
Alexa wrote: "Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel sick. You als..."
I mean even professional betas can suck. I once hired a beta for a sensitivity read regarding one of my characters' sexuality and they proceeded to critique everything but the representation and most of the advice was not helpful. I paid money for that when I didn't even have a job and right now I'm regretting that decision because I still don't have a job and my funds are dwindling to the point I'll probably have to cancel my streaming service subscriptions in a couple months.
Megan wrote: "Alexa wrote: "Jumpj1952 wrote: "You should surely take care of your health issues first. What kind of health problems are they? Mental or physical? It's hard to concentrate on writing if you feel s..."I like to differentiate professional beta readers and editors from just paid betas. There are paid betas who read as a side job and "for fun" and don't actually invest anything in it. A professional beta reader will most probably have a site (or at least a social media page specifically dedicated to this), they will invest back into their profession by learning more, researching the industry, and paying attention to current trends to help an author not only generally improve their manuscript but also through considering current trends and mentioning what things, tropes, themes tend to get published/bought more often than others, and giving opinions on that too.
I mean, of course, there are exceptions to everything, and there will be professional betas who aren't that good, as well as just paid betas who will do a wonderful job. But I personally just like to keep these two groups separate simply because of preference. Other betas might not agree and that's fine as well. Just throwing this out there since it might be a bit easier to differentiate between the two and look for whatever you need, because sometimes you need a professional beta reader and sometimes you just want to pay a person to read your book and get an overall opinion. So I'm in no way saying that one or the other is actually better or worse. They're just a bit different.
I'd also like to say that sensitivity reading is a completely different service and is actually a much more serious matter. You don't really want to pay a random beta reader, who says, "Yeah I'm okay reading this and giving my opinion on it," when they don't actually have any knowledge or experience with it.I am currently going through training webinars on sensitivity reading before I decide to include that as a service. This should not be mixed up with beta reading; it's a very important service, especially considering how the world is changing right now, and how books and authors are scrutinized and frowned upon for saying or writing things that are not appropriate, acceptable, etc.
So if you don't have any personal experience with something and want to see whether or not your writing would potentially hurt or degrade anyone, or just lacking in information and facts, you should get an actual professional sensitivity reader.
There are a couple of things I do, I have no idea if anyone else would find them useful or no.I find typing out my book, so others can read it, rather boring. First I read all sorts of other books, and second I write about events happening to the characters in my novel in pencil in notebooks. This scribbled writing I find therapeutic as I can do it anywhere, and it does not need to be consistent. Chances are I will never type up any of these scribblings, so they are purely for my own consumption. Sometimes I'm genuinely surprised at the direction my writing takes.
All the best, Nick
Megan,I think we all go through this for a whole list of reasons. I have a sign above my desk that asks, Where is your Shalom? When I get stressed to the max, and I can't focus, I take a deep breath and let my inner Spirit reveal what the problem is. Sometimes you have to go deep. It isn't always the thing you think it is. Once I know what is pulling me down. I confront it and find a solution. I either find a way to deal with it or admit I can't fix it, then tell God; He's Got Mail.
It sounds like your health is bringing you down but, is it. Are you feeding it with all your fears and uncertainty? A few years ago, I had a very serious illness that took months to overcome. When I was at my worse, I would escape into my writing for the peace and strength I needed to survive. Use your gift as medicine for your soul, not a project that you do. You will finish all that you set out to do in the appointed time but, until then, enjoy the moment.
Nick wrote: "There are a couple of things I do, I have no idea if anyone else would find them useful or no.I find typing out my book, so others can read it, rather boring. First I read all sorts of other book..."
Interesting idea. As I plan on publishing one day, I'm not sure how well this would work out for me but I'm glad you've found something you enjoy.
Margaret wrote: "Megan,I think we all go through this for a whole list of reasons. I have a sign above my desk that asks, Where is your Shalom? When I get stressed to the max, and I can't focus, I take a deep brea..."
My health has gotten better since I posted this months ago. I'm still in a writing rut, however because the health issues screwed up my writing routine and building a new one has been difficult at best.
This doesn't work for me for a few reasons.
1) I only have 3 hobbies and writing is one of them, losing writing would be to lose a huge chunk of my recreational life
2) I've been dealing with these health issues since February or maybe January and they've barely let up so waiting it out doesn't seem like an option.
3) I have too many story ideas at the moment to put any on hold. If I did, I would wind up never getting to the end of my to-write list because I would come up with even more ideas before I even finished one book.
I want to be excited to write and to edit again but I just don't feel like doing that or even reading (one of my other hobbies). Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get back in the groove? I am running out of ideas and it's really wearing me out to know how behind I am on my writing. I mean, for crying out loud I wanted to have finished TWO first drafts by now, maybe even THREE! I haven't come close to even halfway done with my two current WIPs. At the rate I'm going, I'll be lucky to finish the first drafts of just these two projects by the end of the year. Again, IF I'M LUCKY.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get excited about writing again? Keep in mind, creating a reward system never works for me because I have nothing I could realistically use as a reward, partly because I'm poor, partly because the few things I like enough to act as rewards I would never be able to resist long enough to truly serve as a reward for doing something.