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What did Jesus mean when he said we would do greater works than he did (John 14:12)?
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Michael
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Feb 08, 2015 05:31PM
At the Last Supper, Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father." (John 14:12). What did he mean by saying our works would be greater than His? Was he only speaking to his apostles or does this verse apply to 21st century believers as well? Please post your comments below.
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I believe it was His apostles, because that's who He was addressing. Also, Paul went on to achieve great things and wrote some of the best books. But, I truly believe it is tied to us as well. Every generation in faith gets stronger, because Jesus is in heaven enhancing us. That's why we leaders like Jakes and Olsteen with 30,000+ members.
Nicholas wrote: "I believe it was His apostles, because that's who He was addressing. Also, Paul went on to achieve great things and wrote some of the best books. But, I truly believe it is tied to us as well. Ever..."You raise an interesting question: Do we measure success in the kingdom of God by the number of followers a leader has or by some other measure? And if there is another measuring stick, what is it?
What did Jesus mean when he said we would do greater works than he did?John 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Luke 15:7 I say to you that likewise joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner who repents
I think the key is in the later part of the verse. Before Christ went to the Father the experience of salvation was limited. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the one who would come after Christ, occurred at Pentecost and has continued since that time. To present when someone is drawn into the family of God is one of the most exciting and joyous experiences one can have. This in my opinion is the greatest work we can experience.
There is no measure, because we all are one in the same. Jesus said we would do greater works, but there will never be one person better than other in GOD's eyes
Nicholas wrote: "There is no measure, because we all are one in the same. Jesus said we would do greater works, but there will never be one person better than other in GOD's eyes"You're not answering my question. You said that megachurch pastors are doing "greater works" ala John 14:12 because they have large congregations. So I'm asking: does God measure success (i.e. His blessing for greater works) by the numerical size of our church?
I said HE doesn't measure, what are you not Understanding? I can't say what HE measures, if I said HE doesn't measure. These mega church Pastors are not being measured. HE is supplying them according to their work. The same with Paul. He had a large number of people, but he wasn't measured. GOD simply gave him more, because of how he built and fed HIS people. Like Jesus kept asking, "will you feed My sheep?" The more you feed, the more you need. If you are changing lives and bringing them to GOD, HE provides you with what you need to win and feed more. BUT, you are not measured against another man, because we are all just human. Any man could have been Joel Osteen. Just like the one Pastor that went around holding Church to a stadium of believers. He was winning souls and GOD provided him with the opportunity to feed more. UNDERSTAND: GOD doesn't measure man against man. We are simply vessels that GOD uses. A man that has 50 members and changing lives on an incredible level can be blessed with more. A great example was Jakes. He struggled so much with his life that he and his family had to sleep in the Church. But it wasn't what he was measured against having 50 members. How?! But as he continued to bring lives to GOD, GOD began to supply him. None of these men walked into a Church with 30,000+ members. They did GOD's work and HE provided them with what they needed to win more souls. He didn't measure what they had to someone. NO ONE is being measured. Like the 3 men, where GOD gave talents: HE gave one 5, he gave one 3, and he gave one 1. If the individual with 1 had carried out GOD's will GOD would have gave him more, because he worked with what he had. Since the one with 5 did such a great job, HE took what he had and gave the 1 to him. HE didn't measure man against man, because each had different amounts of talents. HE determined how to bless, by their work. Simple, plain, and easy.
I'm sorry. I think I understand what you were asking and I believed I've answer it my last post. Does GOD bless you according to your work? Definitely. Why would he bless some that doesn't want to do HIS Will? Now the Bible does state that blessings will fall on those not following GOD as well, but why would a person want a piece of his blessings, when you can have it abundantly? Once again, sorry for the rant.
Nicholas wrote: "I'm sorry. I think I understand what you were asking and I believed I've answer it my last post. Does GOD bless you according to your work? Definitely. Why would he bless some that doesn't want to ..."Apology accepted. Let's be careful going forward.
So I believe you are saying that large congregations are a fulfillment of John 14:21.
Yes. They're doing greater works. They are reaching 30,000+, sharing GOD's Word. They're utilizing all ways to reach people and share the Word of GOD. That's definitely the Word of GOD and wouldn't say their doing greater works? You tell me, what do you think He was saying?
Nicholas wrote: "14:21 or 14:12?"Sorry, I meant John 14:12. Thanks!
Nicholas wrote: "Yes. They're doing greater works. They are reaching 30,000+, sharing GOD's Word. They're utilizing all ways to reach people and share the Word of GOD. That's definitely the Word of GOD and wouldn't..."Thanks for asking, Nicholas. I'll post some thoughts about this verse on Saturday night.
Nicholas wrote: "I'm sorry. I think I understand what you were asking and I believed I've answer it my last post. Does GOD bless you according to your work? Definitely. Why would he bless some that doesn't want to ..."Could you clarify regarding God blessing me according to my work. Although it is He that works in me to do His will. There is also the problem with numerous Christians that have less than comfortable lives. Where is God blessing greater in a church with a multi-million dollar budget, 15,000 members, and campus with a college, meditation garden, and medical clinic; or at a Village Missions church where the pastor knows each member, meetings are held in his home, and he has to have a garden to supplement his salary. Now the mega church’s clinic performs abortions and they allow the sanctuary to be used for same-sex marriages are held.
Needless to say there is more to doing greater works than material things. Sister Teresa did great things in abject poverty. William Carey spent over forty years in India and when he died he had roughly 700 converts. He spent most of his time destitute, most of his children died young and his wife went crazy. However he was instrumental in translating the Bible into over 200 Indian languages and dialects. He also assisted in founding Serampore College which is a major center of learning. So much the blessings that happened as a result of his life came after he was with the Lord. Dietrich Bonhoeffer died from a hangman’s noose. A decade later, a camp doctor who witnessed Bonhoeffer's hanging described the scene: "The prisoners … were taken from their cells, and the verdicts of court martial read out to them. Through the half-open door in one room of the huts, I saw Pastor Bonhoeffer, before taking off his prison garb, kneeling on the floor praying fervently to his God. I was most deeply moved by the way this lovable man prayed, so devout and so certain that God heard his prayer. At the place of execution, he again said a prayer and then climbed the steps to the gallows, brave and composed. His death ensued in a few seconds. In the almost 50 years that I have worked as a doctor, I have hardly ever seen a man die so entirely submissive to the will of God." Here again a man whose impact was felt years after his death was not blessed in a manner which we would show as an example. Does GOD bless you according to your work? Please define what you mean by bless in your sentence. For I read Women received their dead raised to life again, and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings; yes, more, of bonds and imprisonments. They were stoned, they were sawed in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains and dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, did not receive the promise, for God had provided some better thing for us, that they should not be made perfect without us.
I'm not sure of what you're going through, but you went completely off the subject. You started telling of a story about someone being imprisoned and who knows what else. But to answer your question, GOD does bless you by your work. If you carry out HIS Will. Then, you go off into a mega church that has an abortion clinic and marry same-sex. You use one Church to define all mega churches? Get out of here! Secondly, who are you to judge? The Bible easily addresses this situation. And also, these people are human beings and there is no way you can base their acts against GOD's blessings. A great example is the man that receive the most blessings from GOD: Solomon. Even after all GOD gave him, he went astray and started worshipping other gods. And, you can't focus on what people went through from carrying out GOD's Will. Throughout the entire Bible, we see this. That doesn't mean that GOD doesn't bless those that do HIS work. If that's the case, then who does HE bless. Those people went suffering, because their own people wouldn't accept them. A great example is Jesus. His own town that He came from wouldn't accept him. This suffering and killing is not of GOD, it is of man. Remember this! GOD didn't create life, so that HE would have us as robots. NO. HE created beings in his image. And, one of the first things HE did was give man dominion over the earth. So when a persecutes his brother, it is not GOD. GOD would never give you evil for doing HIS Will. But, it is man that destroys man for doing GOD's Work. Perfect example: The sacrifice of Jesus. You beat a Man that raised people from the dead, healed the sick, and rebuked the devil. Doing all of GOD's and "man" destroyed Him for it. So channeling back to original (the Bible states this), every good thing is of GOD. You think the devil would teach on the goodness of GOD. There are people that abuse their blessings and offer abortion and marries same-sex, but they're human beings in the flesh, not a special being. GOD uses anybody to advance HIS kingdom, but it is up to man what he does with it. A great example is converting Saul into Paul. This is a man that went around killing Christians, Yet GOD saw how could use that strength in killing HIS own people to educating HIS people. Then, Paul went on to write some of the most powerful books in the Bible. Yes, GOD blesses you for your work. There are people that are blessed and they are sinning (back to Paul), because the Bible states that GOD will rain on the just and unjust.
I see some things that I didn't answer. GOD works through you, but HE's not forcing you. Like I said, that's like making human-beings robots. GOD works through you, when you allow HIM to be in your life. And, the struggles are of man. We create the majority of our short comings. ALSO, you have to ask yourself: If GOD just gave me everything I wanted, I would be spoiled and lose my focus on serving GOD. BUT, our suffering brings forth acknowledgement of GOD, where HE becomes the only option in our lives. Then! When that blessing comes, there is no doubt about how you go it. Suffering brings dependency, dependency brings forth faith, faith is trust, and trust is GOD. Who else can bless us?
