21st Century Literature discussion
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Mr Loverman
8/21 Mr. Loverman
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Mr. Loverman: Whole Book, spoilers ok
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Let's tiptoe into the full book discussion by talking about a few themes in the book. One of the ones that really stood out to me were the discussion on feminism. So fascinating getting a gay man's views on feminism, written by a female author. What do you think Evaristo was trying to do by writing his character with such, um, interesting views on feminism?
I smothered the discussion to death!Let's just open it up to any thoughts about how the book wrapped up.
Did your feelings about Carmel change in the second half? Barry?
I was conflicted in feeling bad for Carmel that her husband had cheated on her and lied for their whole marriage, but sympathetic to Barry's inability to come out to his family. I found it so interesting that Carmel was so homophobic, and I'm not sure what to make of that.
Thanks for looping back, Bretnie. I've been trying to think how to answer the question about feminism. I think Barry mentioned it regularly, but didn't really understand it. His approach to women/his family was very old school/paternal. Even though he was gay, he functioned as if he was "the man" which meant he carried a huge burden having to uphold that image all the time. I think by the end he experienced the equivalent of women's liberation by being able to live openly in his relationship with Morris. Or as openly as possible taking baby steps, little by little. I felt sympathetic to both Carmel and Barry, also the daughters and Morris. They found themselves in a situation that I think is not unusual considering when they were born and where they came from. So many taboos! Carmel's homophobia was understandable and Barry's inability to embrace himself fully as well. We saw his dilemma for most of the book - he wasn't even so sure he could come out and indeed he didn't. He was outed by Morris's ex which in a way solved his problem for him.
I really liked this book, especially in audio. Haven't written my review yet, but it will be a favorable one from me!
Thanks for weighing in Suzy. So many taboos, and so many things ingrained in their lives that are difficult to change.I like that you found his coming out as equivalent of women's liberation. Maybe he'll be a little more open minded about feminism once he more fully embraces his own identify?
Sigh. Barry lived a life of fear, and is sympathetic for that. He showed astounding energy in developing his real estate empire, and that is also admirable.
HOWEVER, he entered into his marriage with Carmel with full knowledge of his capacity to be part of a union. This isn't a case of two people "growing apart"; it's a case of marital fraud. Things seem to have worked out in the end; Carmel finally gave up on her commitment to the marriage and found someone that COULD commit, and Barry remained safely in his closet until the world changed enough to make the closet less necessary.
Mark, I appreciate your comment about waiting until the world changed enough to make the closet less necessary. Overall how did everyone feel about the ending? Carmel finding a new life for herself, Barry and Morris admitting infidelities to each other?
I was glad that Carmel made the decision to leave rather than Barry. But it also felt like an easy out for Barry.
I liked the ending. I loved that Carmel found someone to be with back home, in a place she can comfortably live out her life. I loved that Maxine helped Barry see that the world had changed and maybe he could start to accept that he was gay. I've thought on reflection that he didn't really see himself as "gay" even though he was a practicing homosexual! I don't think that Barry would have ever mustered the courage to divorce Carmel, so I didn't mind that Carmel made the move for him. He was too comfortable.I loved that Barry and Morris are sailing off into the future with each other and with Morris's encouragement, not judging their pasts.
The book felt like "real life" to me. That seems the brilliance of Evaristo's storytelling.
Ah that's interesting Suzy, I think you're right - I don't think Barry would have made the move on his own either. Although his coming out to his grandson and daughter was a powerful step towards in that direction!
Bretnie wrote: "Ah that's interesting Suzy, I think you're right - I don't think Barry would have made the move on his own either. Although his coming out to his grandson and daughter was a powerful step towards i..."Yes, they really helped him! I loved the entire passage of when his grandson stayed with him, although was horrified at Barry teaching him to drink.
I'll add some discussion questions once I get a sense from people where they are. I felt like the book took some turns in the last few chapters, but would love to hear people's impressions up until the turns (Carmel's return, and the last chapter). How did your initial impressions change throughout the book?