Support for Indie Authors discussion
Ebook Publishing
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Lesson Learned & Shared
Hello Gail, thank you for sharing this! It is amazing that we learn so much about book releases with each book. I used Booksprout as well for my first book's ARCs and it didn't get many reviews on Amazon either. However, it was useful to understand the process. I am planning on devising a more detailed strategy for my next book and using Google Forms for ARC requests. Maybe I'll throw in some incentives as well.Best,
Dion
Good luck, Dion. Actually, I've had better results with Booksiren, fyi:)
Hi Gail,Thanks for sharing. One approach is to release the paperback first and then the ebook later so they can post a review. Most folks do the ebook first though. There are usually fewer review on Amazon; it's just easier to post on GR. Congratulations on the new release!
Thank you, M.L. That is a great idea about the paperback. It never occurred to me. At the time, I was just hopeful to receive even a few reviews:)
I think, also, that Amazon don't post reviews from people who have not spent a certain amount on Amazon - maybe $50 a year. I can see why they do this but it does mean that some of my genuine friends have not had their reviews posted and they are left wondering why and feeling like second class citizens.I'm not sure if that rule still stands, but it used to be like that.
Hi Anna, thanks for your input. I never understood that rule. My reviews were with Booksiren and Booksprout, and they have a legitimate way for readers to leave the reviews on Amazon, providing it has been released. Next time, I will hold off until after I publish my book or, like M.L. said, publish paperback first. I hope you're doing well!!! 😊
Dion wrote: "Hello Gail, thank you for sharing this! It is amazing that we learn so much about book releases with each book. I used Booksprout as well for my first book's ARCs and it didn't get many reviews on ..."Never heard of them before, I'll definitely check it out! Thank you :)
Dion, your book(s) will need approval first. I found they reject with highly popular genres due to volume, so choose carefully:)
If you know who your ARC readers were, remind them to leave a review on Amazon along goodreads. Also if you have an email list, ask them to leave a review if they bought your book. These gentle reminders should be phrased so that they are doing a service so other readers can find the book.
Thanks so much, B.A. I do have some of their emails, so maybe I will include a kind note on my next newsletter. I hated to contact them individually - they were all so sweet to leave reviews on GRs. Thanks for your suggestion!
Mod
Hi Anna! The rule still stands and is in place to try and stop the deluge of fake reviews that inundate Amazon on a daily basis. Not sure it works, but at least they're doing something about the burgeoning problem.
Yes, sometimes the good gets mangled because the bad broke in.
Amazon is like a judgemental parent. 1. The reviewer has to have spent that $50 or they can't leave a review.
2. If the reviews are left in like a clump, they will delete thinking they are from a paid source.
3. If there are those who they think are your friends, relatives or someone you know, they will delete them.
I ended up losing six legit reviews (Which was all I had) because o of # 2 and 3. They were from my email list and were people I didn't know but Amazon didn't want to hear it. Since them, I buy very little from them, I don't give them but a tiny bit of money for ads, and I pretty much ignore them.
Mod
1. The reviewer has to have spent that $50 or they can't leave a review.
2. If the reviews are left in like a clump, they will delete thinking they are from a ..."
That's too bad B.A. :( For sure, their algorithm isn't perfect.
Others have been in this position and continued to explain and complain and they eventually had the reviews they'd left restored.
Mod
A squeaky wheel gets the grease situation ;)
Squeaking takes up a lot of time and energy, unfortunately.
Eldon wrote: "Anna wrote: "Others have been in this position and continued to explain and complain and they eventually had the reviews they'd left restored."A squeaky wheel gets the grease situation ;)"
I'm not usually a squeaker, but it made me mad! I write more than I read, so I feel especially bad for the authors whose books I've really enjoyed!!!
Eldon wrote: "Anna wrote: "I think, also, that Amazon don't post reviews from people who have not spent a certain amount on Amazon - maybe $50 a year. I can see why they do this but it does mean that some of my ..."Hi Eldon. I'm curious about how to find Amazon's rules. I'd like to educate myself and avoid frustration.
Mod
Gail wrote: "B.A. wrote: "Amazon is like a judgemental parent. 1. The reviewer has to have spent that $50 or they can't leave a review.
2. If the reviews are left in like a clump, they will delete thinking the..."
For some reason they don't like authors leaving reviews of other books. You can do it on good reads and occasionally on Amazon. Just don't do it very often.
Mod
B.A. wrote: For some reason they don't like authors leaving reviews of other books. You can do it on good reads and occasionally on Amazon. Just don't do it very often.So, because we are authors we are certainly allowed and encouraged to buy books from Amazon, but we aren't allowed to review books we read? And when we know more than anyone how important reviews are for both authors and readers?? It stinks.
So, the lesson is that solicited reviews from ARCs may not be the rest way to go for Amazon, particularly for pre-orders.
Mod
So, because we are authors ..."
Gail, nothing says you can't leave reviews for books you read. However, Amazon is clear that you cannot have any connection to the author of the book you're reviewing. It's about upholding the "integrity" of their review system.
Thanks, Eldon. I understand that. The books I've read were books I found here, on Goodreads, purchased on amazon, read and reviewed. Anyway, I did send Amazon proof of purchase, etc. Hopefully, they will lift my ban.
I've just checked and found that you have left a review for my book One Dark Night here on Goodreads but I cannot find that review on Amazon.com. I think you left one there, so they may have removed it. Grrr...
Mod
That's terrible Gail :( I'm sure you did nothing wrong, and this is simply an error on their part. Not that saying that makes it any better. It's difficult to get them to communicate their reasoning or reverse course sometimes, but it can be done. I've heard the stories.
That being said, I've also heard the horror stories where Amazon lowers the hammer on authors removing their accounts - including all kindle books purchased and any Prime access. Their reach is why I personally never review on Amazon anymore. Not the worth the risk of a perceived conflict of interest.
Thanks, Eldon. If I did do something wrong, I just wished they'd tell me. That's what is so frustrating. I'd fix it if I knew what it was.
Find a specific person in the Amazon hierarchy and write to that person?
Mod
The first thing I would advise is when you join a group, be sure to read the rules over before you post. I have to delete your comment as it is hijacking a thread to promote your book. We don't do that here. This is a place for discussion, not promotion. Thanks.
How do you get a book listed on Booksirens?
Mod
I could be wrong Sean, but I think you just pay them.
B.A. wrote: "Amazon is like a judgemental parent. 1. The reviewer has to have spent that $50 or they can't leave a review.
2. If the reviews are left in like a clump, they will delete thinking they are from a ..."
The best way to keep Amazon from deciding who your friends are, is to disconnect your Facebook account from Goodreads. I know it's a timesaver to have them connected, but this is where Amazon gets its information about your friends.
Amazon has made it more difficult for indie authors, as has Goodreads. What I find interesting is how traditionally published books gain ARC reviews on Amazon in bulk and very soon after publication date. There is a clearly a route to achieving this which Amazon allows.
D.M. wrote: "Amazon has made it more difficult for indie authors, as has Goodreads. What I find interesting is how traditionally published books gain ARC reviews on Amazon in bulk and very soon after publication..."Not just very soon, pretty much instantly. A book was written with the same title as one of my previous nonfictions, so I was getting google alerts on it. So, I was very aware of the release date, and when it hit Amazon it hit with many reviews at the same time. So, yes, it is probably a publisher/amazon thing.
Perhaps if you build up enough of a reputation/following/longevity with Amazon they would also look the other way if you had lined up 30 or so ARC reviewers to post on the day you release a book.
I'm not privy to the internal rules, but perhaps that is it?
Regarding the topic of this thread, I used to be concerned with the "Amazon Best Seller" label until I found that so many people were touting that because of their ebook which followed the steps of having everyone they knew download a 99 cent book and give 5 star reviews within a certain time window, thus hijacking the algorithm and getting the label. So to me the label lost most of its meaning.
I am OK with actual reviews from people, and at whatever rate they come in.
I just released the prequel to my duet, and it was just published with no reviews, and I am ok with that. People who enjoyed the duet will certainly come and get it, and then review.
Mod
Hi Mark! Just an FYI, reviews have no bearing on the best seller label. It's strictly number of sales in a given period of time.
Eldon wrote: "reviews have no bearing on the best seller label."I worded that vaguely, my bad. Yes, it is just based on sales within a certain time parameter. :) Makes me wonder what would happen if you arranged for 500 people to buy it and leave one star reviews. Hilarious.
Mod
I worded that vaguely, my bad. Yes, it is just based on sales within a certain time parameter. :) Makes me wonder what would happen..."
That might raise a few red flags lol
It's called preorder. You get the book on preorder and many of the people will do reviews on that book. So yes, it works.What is frustrating is how Amazon was built on the backs of the indie authors and now we have become second rate users and are demonized unless we're a bestseller for them. They are all about the money and could care less about those of us who help to keep them in business. I'm waiting for them to tick off all the big publishers with their messing around with the royalty payments.
Mod
I'm curious, how have they messed around with royalty payments?
Easy, if someone returns a book or audiobook, they take back your royalties. Nice, huh? The person buys it, reads it, then returns it, no questions asked and you lose money.
B.A. wrote: "It's called preorder. You get the book on preorder and many of the people will do reviews on that book. So yes, it works."But that's not how preorder works. Preorder just means you pay in advance. It's sort of meaningless for kindle as buying the day of release would be the same as pre ordering it a month in advance.
Perhaps you are thinking of Advance Reader Copies?
Mod
Returns should only be possible before a certain percentage is reached. Seems an easy fix for Amazon, but nothing we can really do to force it.
So interesting to read this thread. Nobody is reviewing my book on Goodreads. (I have 9 total) but I have 43 on Amazon.
Mod
Which is where you want them :) Awesome!
they buy in advance but the sale isn't credited until the book goes live. The ARCs are good if you have a large contingent of fans who will read it and then put in that review when the book goes live. The preorder sales cover the reviews from the ARC readers. Amazon is all about them. So don't think they are your friend. They will dump you and your ads over one irate customer or a small infraction of their TOS. I had an ad pulled because I used a key word they didn't like.
If Amazon wants to take back returns like they are, then they need to make themselves into a library where anyone can borrow a book and return it when they are done. (for a fee of course) so the author gets paid. Oh wait--that's KU isn't it?
Mod
I think we need to realize that Amazon is a business. And like any business, they aren't perfect. But they do a lot for us. Where would indie publishing be without Amazon? Sure they have rules we don't understand, or like, but it's important to view them as the cost of doing business. No one says you must sell on Amazon. But, if you do, you need to follow the rules they've made. They own the platform after all.
Amazon is NOT indie friendly any longer. They got what they wanted -to be the biggest online store for non[traditionally published authors and now we are second rate citizens because traditional publishers get first dibs on everything because they have money. Sure, they still court us so they can make money off us. Like ACX--a 7 year contract (or is it 10?) where you get a pittance while their cut remains the same. Then there's Kindle Unlimited-- you can't have your book anywhere else if you want to be in KU. Okay, so you got into KU early and made some money. They now have enough players that they decided to cut the rates to a pittance compared to what it was. They are still getting a big chunk of change while you, one of the many who are keeping them going, is getting fractions of pennies for pages read. It's all hidden how they come up with the amount they pay you, but the only consensus is that the rate keeps dropping with each change they make while their profits continue to soar from the KU platform. Then there is the fiasco with the returns. They are still taking your royalties from you for returns. It's just better hidden now. But people continue to pin all their hopes on Amazon because they make it 'easy' for you to use them.
Amazon is the monster in the room, but we all are hooked on that monster and don't believe it'll eat us. Might want to create some distance from Monster Amazon and learn how to sell books without Amazon. There are a lot of authors who are avoiding them because of their underhanded tactics, poor reporting, and a customer service that leaves a lot to be desired unless you are making them a decent amount of money.
True, they own the platform, but they are now negating the very people who got them to the size they are now and are keeping them there. Because of their size, you are now at a huge disadvantage. Their 'cost' of doing business is taking money that should be coming to you and putting it in their pocket under the guise of 'customer service' or 'reorganizing our platform'. When their 'cost' of doing business is squiggled around to take your earned royalties, you might want to think twice about doing business with them and learning how to use other platforms for selling your works.
In April, I released my book. Currently, it has received several new reviews on Goodreads, yet far fewer on Amazon since none of the initial ARC readers could leave a review on Amazon during pre-order.
I have heard it is so very necessary to campaign for a book prior to its release, but there are downsides to it, too, that authors should be aware of and I wanted to share this experience with you.