The Guns At Last Light Buddy Read

[Steven]

I had no idea that Patton is buried in Luxembourg. Hmmm, learn something new every day.

[Steven]

Chapter 5 - Will take a moment to jump back to Montgomery – I am astounded by how many lives his hubris and arrogance cost during Market Garden. The lack of intelligence should have been enough to make him, or others, to take a second look, to postpone until they had a better picture of the German strength and disposition. It was mentioned several times: “The Polish commander…after listening to an excessively chipper review of the battle plan,” he stated, “But the Germans, how about the Germans, what about them.” Guess Montgomery forgot a key military axiom, the enemy gets a vote. Later the arrival of two battalions of the 9th Panzer, “a complete surprise…” Our intelligence spent the day in a state of indignant surprise.” Meanwhile, Montgomery “was having his portrait painted, again…” Geez, I really do not like this person.

[Joanne]

Montgomery really is a piece of work, eh? I need to do more research, but from what I have found so far the British held him up as a hero-Not sure I could read a bio of him, but I might give it a try

[Steven]

Think I will forego any Montgomery bio as I believe it would only upset me, but you are correct in that he is "the British hero of WWII." Well, other than Churchill that is. Almost picked up a biography of Wellington yesterday but let it pass -- will give that one some more thought.

[Joanne]

Chapter 6

All well and good to celebrate Ike's birthday, but are you kidding me? There is a war going on outside and the elite of command are drinking martini's and eating a cake flown in(?) from Paris, while an orchestra entertains them all....And there sure was a lot of alcohol going around in this war, eh? Each General recieved a monthly allotment of gin, scotch and bourbon! No wonder they were all arguing so much, alcohol, from my experiences, can fuel the temper..

Lt. General Courtney H. Hodges, another abuser of power-fired a subordinate because he asked for bereavement leave , when his son was killed. I am amazed that there was no push-back from the lower ranks when things like this occurred. I know it was a different time, but some of things the men in power said and did are just unimaginable.

[Steven]

Agree that all this partying by the senior commanders is pretty bad. Somehow it seems as if it was accepted by the soldiers. Or maybe, they were just unaware. Do not think it would be the same today. At least I hope not.

Chapter 6 (p.294) – I have always thought that one of the reasons the U.S military has been, and remains so, a world-class organization is the soldiers’ initiative, adaptation, and problem solving. A great example of that was described in the effort to destroy the well-built German bunkers along Germany’s border. Atkinson relates, “For recalcitrants in bunkers, 1st Division engineers found that mattresses wedged into firing ports amplified the explosive pressures inside so that even small charges would fracture the concrete.” Pretty ingenious.

[Joanne]

Yes, it seems the soldiers learned to use what they had to push ahead. It is pitiful how terrible the supply lines were.

[Joy D]

I am in Chapter 7. I find it interesting that so many high-ranking people who were not on the front lines thought it would be easy-peasy to march into Germany and the war would be over by September...to the point that they had not ordered the proper clothing for winter. Did they not learn anything from Italy?

[Joanne]

Agree Joy-especially that they were well aware of the lack of supply lines. Even if they had been able to "just march on in"-there was still the fact that they would have had to have forces in Germany to maintain the governing and rebuilding, and it would still be winter! No one thought that far ahead and it is astonishing.

The numbers still make me shake my head: bombs dropped (sometimes 30 or more a day) on Antwerp, the number of buildings and homes destroyed (67,000)-One quote that sums it all up:

Here then, the annihilative whirlwind-this vortex, this gyre of flame, this destroyer of worlds. "The destruction will go on" wrote one man in Berlin "until the world has bled to death"

[Steven]

Chapter 7 -- I too was a bit astounded by the lack of preparedness for winter as it was not as if this was the first year of the war, and as you noted Joy, they had recent experience in Italy. The number of causalities due to trench foot was pretty shocking. This is something I have always associated with the Vietnam War not WWII.

The overall numbers indeed remain mind boggling. In the first couple of hundred pages, I was always circling them and making a note to the side – now, as they seem to come one right after another, I somewhat acclimatized. Here is the thought I had last night, these are just the numbers for the European Theater – there was the whole other huge Theater operating in the Pacific.

The one figure that still surprised me was the amount of V1 and V2 rockets launched by the Germans. In my mind before reading the book, I thought these attacks were just one-offs, but there were over 2,000 fired at Antwerp alone.

[Joanne]

Theresa shared this with the Tuesday Kafe Klatch group:

https://theddaystory.com/discover/ove...

Is it not amazing? I could spend days going over this piece of art!

[Theresa]

Just stopping by and letting you all know that I have learned that at some point in the not too distant future, that talk on the Overlord Embroidery and the D-Day Center built to house it in Portsmouth, England will be available to view on demand at the Royal School of Needlework website. I will let you all know here when it is and provide a link.

It was a superb talk complete with great images.

[Patricia]

Enjoy!

[Steven]

Thank you for the link, and yes, it is pretty amazing for sure.

[Joy D]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

[Joanne]

Chapter 8

The absolute excellence of Atkinson's writing shines through here

War, the merciless revealer of character, uncloaked these men as precisely as a prism flays open a beam of light to reveal the inner sprecturm. Here they were disclosed, exposed, made known,...

I think I must have read the paragraph this was written in 5 or 6 times, just to ponder the words. When an author can make me do that, unaware I am doing it, well that is darn good writing.

A great surprise to me: Marijuana being sold on the streets of Paris! I suppose I knew it was around back then, yet I thought it was only a far-eastern market. I had no idea.

An entire unit (the 106th), made of 18 year old boys. I am afraid to see what happens to them in chapter 9.

[Joy D]

I am a little behind you, Joanne. I have not heard anything about marijuana use in WWII. I have a feeling it was not widespread.

Regarding Atkinson's writing, I am finding it stellar. In Chapter 7 I was interested in the differences of opinion on bombing cities versus oil production facilities. It seems like the latter would make more of an impact with less civilians killed. Hitler really did not care about how many people died, obviously.

[Steven]

I cringe every time I read about how much ordnance the Allies dropped on the cities, both in Europe and in Japan. It was terrible, especially the incendiaries. I can understand the focus on oil production and transportation that makes perfect sense, but what we did to the cities and towns thinking it would have an adverse affect on morale and bring about the end of the war was pretty inexcusable. Will finish Chapter 7 today, then I am traveling a bit and will not return to WWII and Atkinson until next week.

[Joanne]

Travel Safe Steve! I will set the book a side for a few days (or I will try;) I have a lot of other books to catch up on

[Steven]

Thank you. Sorry, meant to say I will finish Chapter 8 today - next up, Battle of the Bulge.

[Joy D]

I am currently in CH 8. I will also be traveling this week. (My first trip since the pandemic began.)

[Joanne]

No worries, as I said I am behind on a lot of other books right now. I am really looking forward to Chapter 9 though...

[Joy D]

I caught up to Chapter 9 before leaving. I am taking my books and my e-reader with me but no idea how much I will be able to read.

[Joanne]

Going somewhere fun, I hope! enjoy the time away

[Steven]

Chapter 9 - I am pretty much amazed that with the number of forces we had in Western Europe we were so unprepared for a German counteroffensive. It was surely an epic intelligence failure on the Allied behalf. Guess this is a case of overconfidence undermining reality on the behalf of senior leadership. Loved the comment by one soldier that being pushed back in retreat, was an “invasion in reverse.”

[Joy D]

I am in San Francisco. Doing a bit of reading, but not nearly as much as when I'm at home.

[Steven]

Enjoy SF - I visited many years ago and it was a great city. Also, if you like baseball, Giants' stadium is pretty awesome.

[Joy D]

I am going to the game today!

[Joanne]

Also a big fan of San Francisco! Love the wharf area-Have fun at the game!

[Joanne]

Chapter 9-The Bulge

Your comment, Steven, I am pretty much amazed that with the number of forces we had in Western Europe we were so unprepared for a German counteroffensive. It was surely an epic intelligence failure on the Allied behalf. says it all. Bradley's nonchalance attitude floored me.

I hate to admit it, but Patton and I would have liked each other-LoL Everyone is a son-of-bitch to someone, Be better son-of-bitches than they are The guy had no filter. Unfortunately neither do I (or so my husband says ;) )

NOTE: I have been caught up in some personal matters this week
and have yet to finish Chapter 9-hoping life settles down next week.

[Booknblues]

Joy D wrote: "I am going to the game today!"

Hubby would be jealous. I expect he will either watch it or listen to it.

[Steven]

I have finished Chapter 9. I did not realize just how epic and costly the Battle of the Bulge was with some 105,000 total casualties and over 19,000 KIA on the Allied side. I guess most my knowledge of the battle came from the movie, a poor substitute for such a work as is Atkinson's.

Patton definitely did not have a filter. It is most interesting reading what the generals say to each other and in public versus what they write in their letters home.

[Joanne]

I finished chapter 9 last night, and another night of not being able to sleep sent me down a 'battle of the bulge" rabbit hole on google.

I found this, which I wanted to share: https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty...

There are additional links at the bottom of the story, if you feel like traveling that rabbit hole...lol

ETA: I really like the one about the beer run

[Joy D]

I think the chapter on the Battle of the Bulge is especially well-written (in a book that is already supremely well-written).

Thanks for the info, Joanne.

[Steven]

Joanne, Thanks for the link. From the photos one can really get a feel for just how cold and miserable it was.

And, it was amazing how much alcohol was shipped to and drank during the war, particularly by the senior officers.

[Joanne]

@ Steven-I really believe that they all thought it(alcohol) medicinal, just to shoulder all the loss and grief. I don't think any of what we know about it's effect now was known then. How it's habitual intake and addiction could hurt someone's mind and body. I think this constant abuse in the war (wars) is what opened the door to the 3 martini lunches in the 50's/60's.

[Steven]

Also, armies, even up to today, are known as hard-drinking cultures. Besides the numbing affect to the senses, it could make soldiers feel stronger, braver, thus even in the 1700s the term "Dutch courage" referred to drinking before battle. There is one anecdote of a U.S. Civil War general, "Shanks" Evans who was rumored to have a solider follow him around the battlefield with a small keg of liquor tied to his back.

[Joanne]

Steven wrote: "Also, armies, even up to today, are known as hard-drinking cultures. Besides the numbing affect to the senses, it could make soldiers feel stronger, braver, thus even in the 1700s the term "Dutch c..."

LoL-what an assignment for that poor guy! "here, hold my liquor, and don't drink it!"

[Steven]

I have been a slacker and not read any for the last few days - will pick it up again over this weekend.

[Joy D]

I am still in Chapter 9.

[Joanne]

I had laid it aside, waiting for you 2 to come back home from your breaks. (Hope you both enjoyed yourselves!) That was pretty hard on me people-LoL, I had to hide it under the rest of my books on the nightstand, so that by the time I got to the bottom. each night, I was too tired to read anything so heavy as this! I finished 9 and will start 10 tonight.

[Joy D]

Yes, I had a great time in SF. I did not expect you to wait, Joanne, but thanks.

[Joanne]

Joy D wrote: "Yes, I had a great time in SF. I did not expect you to wait, Joanne, but thanks."

We have all been on track with this for so long, it just did not seem right to continue without you ;)

[Joy D]

It is fun reading it along with the two of you. I am in Chapter 10 now.

[Steven]

Yalta Conference -- it is stunning that three men shaped an entire world at a one-week conference. It was, however, from reading, quite the conference.

[Joanne]

The Yalta conference: Yes 3 men shaping the world to come. Eye-opening and a bit sad, on a personal level. My husband was born in Communist Poland (he defected when he was in his late 20's, leaving behind all family, except 1 brother who was already in the U.S.). My mother-in-law had a firm opinion that these 3 people turned their back on Poland. Reading this chapter made me think of her, and those conversations we had (through the interrupter, my husband) about this. At the time, I had my own opinions. As an older, wiser person I can see where she was coming from, I can empathize with why she hated America for so long.

[Steven]

I would tend to agree with your mother-in-law that the West has many times turned its back on Poland. That country has seen much misery as a result. I will say though that today it seems as if the U.S. relationship with Poland is the best it has ever been.

[Steven]

I am going to try and finish up over the weekend. Right now, the Allies have crossed the Rhine and moving fast throughout Germany.

[Joanne]

I am a tiny bit ahead of you Steven, and also plan on finishing this week-end.

[Joy D]

I am just finishing the Yalta Conference. Looking forward to seeing your reviews.