MSU LIT 382-Summer 2021 discussion
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Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe
Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe Discussion
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May 30, 2021 10:12PM
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I loved this book so much! I loved Ari. I loved Dante. I even loved Legs! The Secrets of the Universe seems like a timeless piece of literature that has a wide appeal and may become a classic. Maybe like Catcher in the Rye, Benjamin Alire Saenz has written a something that encapsulates the adolescent experience while not writing down to his readers. Unlike Catcher though, this novel offered some real hope. Language like “the summer sun was not meant for boys like me. Boys like me belonged to the rain,” seems so beautiful while just teetering on the line of YA cringe, yet Saenz hits the mark every time. I remember that electricity of holding someone’s hand for the first time and when Ari thought, “I bet you could sometimes find all of the mysteries of the universe in someone’s hand,” I knew exactly what he was talking about.
Ari is so cool! He is humble, he is not judgmental, he is fiercely loyal, and he loves deeply. The only real attribute I can claim kinship to Ari during my teenage years was the loneliness. While reading this I was flooded with memories of biking around my neighborhood in the summertime, always alone, trying to convince myself that I liked it that way. As the person Ari had been disappeared and the person he would become was not quite there yet, I eagerly devoured this book to see where life would take him while also ruminating on my own life.
Regarding the supplemental reading for this week, I appreciated that there were no concrete conclusions about certain aspects of Ari’s identity. This seems to make this novel encompass what I understand to queer theory to be: the fluidity of sexual identity. Life is about questioning, changing, growing, and loving and Aristotle and Dante was a great story about all that and more.
P.S. I guess the sequel is coming out in October. I can’t wait!!
I really liked this book. Before actually reading it I listened to it on a long drive as an audiobook. By about the halfway point I knew I was going to listen to it all the way through in one go, something uncommon for me and audiobooks. Like Jonathan, I loved the characters of this story. Ari and his relationship with his parents was something I connected with quickly, as I have learned that my family also internalizes a lot of emotions. Reading and listening to the story made me feel a huge range of emotions, but the ones I am left with are hope and encouragement. I think the style of this story is excellent. I really like how Ari's internal dialogue is written, and I like the spoken dialogue too, although without "he said" and "she said" after everything it was easy to lose who says what on audio. Ari's loneliness and attitude towards life are very easy to distinguish from what he says and does.
The part of this book that shines the most to me is the characters and relationships they make. The parents in this story are amazing and I wish I knew some like them when I was growing up. The love and acceptance each set of parents has for Ari and Dante is amazing and hopefully inspiring to young readers just as it was to me when reading this past week. Ari's loyalty and Dante's kindness are amazingly exemplified in the story and really inspiring too. Also, the way they dealt with their problems in the story felt true to their character and realistic.
As Chris and Jonathan have already said, I agree that this is a really good book. It is the perfect mix of everything that makes a YA novel geared towards young adults. It showed us how two complete opposites in Ari and Dante can be friends and help each other, as well as what it means to find out who you really are. As we read along not only do the characters grow and change but our thoughts and perceptions around them do as well. It is this self discovery theme throughout the book that changes the audiences feelings at different times while simultaneously making the characters stay relatable. What I mean is, the way Benjamin Alire Saenz crafts a story and more importantly the characters, is what makes the story so perfect. He does not let the plot drive the characters to do things, but rather bases the plot off of natural feeling characters and lets them drive it forward. I think the reason this book was such a good YA novel was because the author knew what he was doing. In other books we see cringey dialogue, weird plot points, and overall just a misunderstanding of teenagers. In this book none of these negative elements make an appearance. I am not saying this was the best book of all time, because believe me I have some grievances, but I do think this is THE BEST YA novel we have read thus far. For me it was less to do with the characters and story as a whole and more the writing and style of the book that made me fall in love. As for my grievances, I don't like what they did with Bernardo as it felt rushed and like it was put in the story just for stories sake, not like it pushed the story in any specific direction. Overall, I think this book was made with this class in mind because this book showed me what a good YA novel can do. A good YA novel truly can shape your self and perspective in order to find your identity and purpose. This book does exactly that.
Jonathan wrote: "I loved this book so much! I loved Ari. I loved Dante. I even loved Legs! The Secrets of the Universe seems like a timeless piece of literature that has a wide appeal and may become a classic. Mayb..."Johnathan, I couldn't agree more with what you said about becoming a classic. In terms of what makes a book a classic I think there needs to be a bit of nostalgia, quality storytelling, and a memorable story. This book definitely has all of these elements and that alone is why it could be a classic. In my review, I talk about why this book is so relatable along with my own reasons for liking it so much, but I think the reason this book is a classic is because everyone can take away something from this book. Even just by looking at the 3 posted reviews right now we can see that all three of us had a different take away from the book, and yet all of us still loved it. I think that is what made this book great, and why it deserves to be a classic.
Chris wrote: "I really liked this book. Before actually reading it I listened to it on a long drive as an audiobook. By about the halfway point I knew I was going to listen to it all the way through in one go, s..."Chris, I also listened to the audiobook, and I think that is what made the experience for me. On the 9 hour voyage from Bozeman to Denver I decided to listen to the audiobook as reading and driving is a bit courageous. Like you I originally planned on only listening halfway, but found myself enchanted under the books spell finishing the whole thing in one shot. Most of it had to do with the book, but I cannot lie, Lin-Manuel Miranda was an excellent narrator and one that gave the story excitement. In some other audiobooks the narrator can be a bit monotone and mundane making the book seem monotone and mundane. But the way the narration works in sync with the way the story is read, makes for a really interesting experience and one that I recommend. Post-audiobook I read some of the text and while it was still a masterpiece, I think it was that missing link of narration that made it as good as the audiobook. Overall, great review and definitely agree that dialogue is confusing over audio (either that or Lin-Manuel needs to slow down).
Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the UniverseI was not so sure about this book at first, only because I found it hard for myself to stay invested in it initially and it took me longer to pick up than the other readings. However, I am impressed with the author and his use of the complexities within the book, the inner dialogue of growing into one's self. The conversations around being a boy (constructions of masculinity), a Mexican boy, and exploration of being queer or straight. There is already complexity in growing up, coming into your own identity. The way that the author goes about making these complexities seem entirely normal to discuss and to question is important. It is important to be able to talk about race and what groups we fit in when we are either entirely Mexican (in this case) or not really at all. If we are experimenting with kissing boys or girls. Each topic is made to be as important and normal as learning to drive, having questions we want to ask adults but not knowing how, and coming into ourselves when we aren't quite sure how. That was the takeaway from this book that I enjoyed the most. The ability to talk about normally taboo topics (race and sexuality) and making that questioning the most normal thing, especially between two friends who are friends mostly because they are so different but the same in the ways that matter (they care for each other, they learn with each other).
I was initially captivated by the title, I have always been a sucker for sentences or language that can be profound in the least amount of words possible. Besides the connotations that the names of the main character and his closest friend carry, I was happily surprised at the 'secrets of the universe discussed in the novel. It covered milestones, parents, sexuality, ethnicity, and much more. The ability to converge the questions that young adults have about the world they are entering; the want for it to be a life of their own rather than their parent's idea or questioning those around them or pieces of the world they want to know but do not yet feel they can without 'leaving the nest'. This piece was beautifully written and the perfect culmination of questions about being an adult that for young adult readers really would seem like a multitude of questions trying to explain their universe and trying to converge their universe with those around them.
I absolutely loved kicking off the celebrations and humanistic discourse that come with pride month every year by reading Aristotle and Dante. This text provided great commentary about the concept of loneliness and how the stereotype of being a loner is often portrayed in YA narratives. I also think the parental relationships present in this story are incredibly valuable for students who may feel like they do not have that active of guardianship present in their lives. Along with the genuineness of the familial relationships, the conflicts and resolutions that the character’s experience did not feel cliche at all, but rather events that could spark a deep sense of empathy and resonance for many students. Lastly, the novel’s reliance on discovering one’s truth was something that I thoroughly enjoyed engaging with.
"I bet you could sometimes find all of the mysteries of the universe in someone's hand."The word that comes to mind with this book to me is "charming". I really enjoyed it. I absolutely loved the portrayals of friendship, family, and teenage years that Saenz presents. I'm not quite sure how to delve into a review because of the complexity of the text.
There were so many little, moving parts that make the book such a wonderful whole. Ari's relationship with his family. Dante's family. Legs. Every interaction felt so genuine and I absolutely adored the dialogue throughout the entire book. Saenz nailed the experience of being a teen, I think, and trying to figure out who you are while trying to also ignore parts of yourself.
I loved the characters themselves and everything they brought to the book. Each character was so strong and intriguing I wanted to continue to learn more and more about them. It was clear that each character had their own world that did not just serve the purpose of the main characters, which I immensely enjoyed.
There were just a couple of things that kept this from being a five-star review for me. Firstly, this book didn't demand my attention. It didn't keep my turning the pages like The Poet X or the Serpent King. It was a much more casual read. Another aspect of the book I kept noticing is that I felt the characters felt immature at times. The way they interacted, especially toward the beginning, felt much more middle school than high school to me.
Overall, this was a wonderful book. The writing, the characters, every little part pulled me in and I wanted to learn more. There were so many striking lines and concepts that will continue to stick with me. Plus, it's a great way to start off Pride Month.
Okay, I'm coming back to edit my original review because there is something that has persisted in my mind as I get further away from finishing this book. The transphobia present in the novel. I think as we talk about the book in the context of LGBT+ representation, I think this point is really important. When I read it, it was hard for me to get through, and I could completely see someone getting turned off from the book because of it. I understand that it could be because of the time the book is taking place, or just teenage ignorance, but I can also see a young reader who is trans or questioning really feeling let down by it. I know this novel is part of a series, so maybe it comes back in a more important way later, but it was presented in a way that was just uncomfortable for me as a reader and I definitely wanted to make a note of it here.
Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe. What a title. Before I read the novel, I thought the title was maybe a little cheesy but after reading, I couldn’t imagine naming it anything else. Its charming, and totally fits the coming of age, discovering oneself and the realities of the world aspects of this story. After the first few chapters, I didn’t expect to fall in love with Aristotle “Ari” Mendoza. A bit rough around the edges, Ari isn’t an only child, although sometimes he feels that way. His twin sisters are much older and moved out of the house a while ago, and his brother has been in prison for almost as long as Ari can remember. He has always been a bit of a loner, and claims to not want or need friends… that is, until he meets Dante Quintana. Dante loves art and poetry. He isn’t afraid to tell Ari when they first meet that he absolutely loves his parents, a sentiment that I’m sure isn’t common among 15-year-olds. I immediately knew that Dante was my kinda guy (and I did love him throughout the story). So I was very surprised when I found myself also falling in love with “tough guy” Ari who likes to fight. In the end, Ari discovers that he is more a lover than a fighter anyway.
The ways that families are portrayed in YA fiction has always caught my attention, and I know that I’ve alluded to the families in previous reviews of “Hearts Unbroken” and “The Poet X.” Most of the reason that I fell in love with this book is because I fell in love with the families and the way that families are portrayed. We see everything through Ari’s point of view, as he tries to understand his family. The distance of his father and why they can’t ever seem to talk to one another. The closeness of the Quintana family, and the way they express their love for one another. The changes in the way that Ari views his family and Dante’s family as he grows older and begins to understand them all better. The way each family shows love for their son. These are the moments that caught my heart in this story. I also loved the small touches, the way that Benjamin Alire Saenz doesn’t let the small things slide. When Ari finally starts calling Mr. Quintana by his first name Sam in the dialogue, it also changes in the narrative (Mrs. Quintana always stays as Mrs. Quintana though, which I thought was fitting for Ari’s POV). You can really tell that a lot of love and attention was poured into this story.
As a future teacher, I will absolutely have this novel on my classroom library shelves. As someone who is a proud member of the alphabet mafia, I think that LGBTQ+ representation for teenagers is essential. I’m going back a couple of weeks, but this story can absolutely be both a window and a mirror for many, teenagers and adults alike.
I also noticed that other than the Stonewall Book Award “sticker” on the front cover, there aren’t many hints on the outside of this book that indicate the LGBTQ+ storyline. In a YA book, I think that this is the right move, and can make the book more accessible to adolescents who may not have a home life or environment where they feel comfortable bringing a book with obvious LGBTQ+ representation home. If a parent were to read the back cover of (at the least the version I have) this book, it can pass as a YA story about two friends.
Hey all!Benjamin Alire Saenz had me captivated from cover to cover in this novel. His characters and their idiosyncrasies were compelling in a way where they captured my heart. Not only Ari and Dante in their path of development but also in getting to know the parents on an unexpectedly touching level.
I had no idea what this book was going into it. I honestly expected some sort of zany time travel extravaganza with characters pulled from history and literature. Of course, as it turns out, Dante and Aristotle were their own characters and in contrast to their names, Dante was the philosopher of the pair and Ari was the one closer to the character Dante Alighieri. Perhaps needing a Virgil… Whom would ultimately be Dante in this case. The kids do comment on their strange names early on in the work, but ultimately it is just a choice that Saenz made that I find uniquely interesting.
Benjamin Alire Saenz is a poet as well, and that proclivity is apparent here in the best way. He will drop these one liners, let’s say the secrets of the universe, that would cause me to stop in my tracks and take a moment. Even chills. Maybe the entire can be found in your hand, or maybe Dog’s are one of those secrets. The exploration is graceful, and human, and powerful. It’s easy to keep up with Saenz and our characters even as they jump through such philosophies and of course further exploration into family, identity, sexuality and all things youth.
Dante and Ari both have a place in my heart. That is certainly the magic of Benjamin Alire Saenz. The way that Saenz treats his own characters is compelling in itself and inspiring to me.
Happy Friday!
stay cool out there :)
"I wondered how that felt, to really like yourself. And I wondered why some people didn't like themselves and others did. Maybe that's just the way it was" (pgs. 74-75).Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe was my favorite read from this class so far! I'm amazed at the author's writing to make the themes relatable for young adults. Self-discovery, sexuality, familial issues, coming of age, etc. were beautifully laid out in this novel. I completely fell in love with the relationship Ari and Dante formed throughout it and could not put the book down.
Benjamin Alire Sáenz wrote accurately when portraying the characters in this book. I thought it was all very realistic which helped me make connections and stay engaged. I think that aspect is most important when writing a book. An author has to make their audience believe the story. This task was perfectly executed. Ari's thoughts were accurate because of the short utterances and incomplete sentences. I really understood how even Ari's own thoughts were limited from the truth. Sometimes things are hard to think about or to admit to yourself. This is something I think so many people can relate to.
I'm glad I was able to read this during pride month too (as others have already mentioned). I'd recommend this book to future students and will always keep this on my shelf in future classrooms.
"Another secret of the universe: Sometimes pain was like a storm that came out of nowhere. The clearest summer morning could end in a downpour. Could end in lightning and thunder" (pg. 261).
Aristotle and Dante is a beautifully written story of self-discovery. There's so much honesty and emotion layered throughout that to me, it read as the most authentic teenage experience of all the novels we've read so far. Ari and Dante's friendship felt so natural, and there was no rush to push their relationship any farther than it needed to in order to progress the story, thus making the conclusion much more satisfying. I adored the relationship each boy had with their parents, and how accepting and encouraging they were of Ari and Dante individually and of their friendship. I really enjoyed the little moments when characters would have a whole conversation with only a look (usually between the parents); these intimate details help add nuance to what could easily be flat characterizations. I look forward to hearing Lin-Manuel's narration, as I imagine he adds considerable warmth and personality to an already charming novel.
Ben wrote: "Hey all!Benjamin Alire Saenz had me captivated from cover to cover in this novel. His characters and their idiosyncrasies were compelling in a way where they captured my heart. Not only Ari and D..."
Ben, I also had no idea what to expect going into this book and was pleasantly surprised. I don't know exactly what I was expecting based on the cover art and title, maybe some small town sci fi adventure?? It has been kind of fun diving into these books like that, without preconceived notions of what they will be. This way, I get to decide if they suck AFTER I read them.
Aristotle and Dante surely didn't suck though!
I appreciate that you highlighted Saenz's poetic touch. Some of his lines were so simple and pure, with just the right touch of YA cheesiness but without being cheesy at all. It was very inspiring to read this book as I enter my next summer course, Creative Writing. I loved this book and have been telling everyone to read it. Hopefully I can write a fraction as well as Saenz for my upcoming course, I know his style will be drawn from in whatever I turn out.
Andromeda wrote: ""I wondered how that felt, to really like yourself. And I wondered why some people didn't like themselves and others did. Maybe that's just the way it was" (pgs. 74-75).Aristotle and Dante Discov..."
Andromeda, I also felt that these characters were entirely believable, unlike some of the other books we have read so far. I felt like I knew Ari or that I WAS Ari. Some of Sáenz's descriptions were do vivid, I could almost see that worn-out Grateful Dead T-shirt and cherry red pick-up truck. Also, despite growing up in the Midwest and not Texas, I felt that Aristotle and Dante's version of America was very much alive when I was growing up and still is today. It's a period piece but timeless at the same time.
My one complaint would be that our supplemental reading this week was a bit of a spoiler for this book. However, I also feel that no solid conclusions were necessarily made about our protagonists sexual identity. That in itself is a good reason why this book was a good coming-of-age novel and not necessarily a coming-out novel. Maybe we could have read the Queer chapter after the book.
Anyways, thanks for your thoughts.
Ben wrote: "Hey all!Benjamin Alire Saenz had me captivated from cover to cover in this novel. His characters and their idiosyncrasies were compelling in a way where they captured my heart. Not only Ari and D..."
Ben, what a wonderful review! I think you eloquently discussed all the parts of the novel that captured me. I think your point about Saenz being a poet is noteworthy, because it definitely shows through his prose. The one-liners that you mentioned absolutely struck me in the same way and I found myself wanting to savor everything it gave me. The relationships with their parents were another high point for me. I expected a lot about Dante and Ari's relationship, but the discussion of parents and the relationships families have was particularly intriguing and touching. Overall, I definitely agree that this was a special book.
Kaitlyn wrote: "Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the UniverseI was not so sure about this book at first, only because I found it hard for myself to stay invested in it initially and it..."
Kaitlyn,
I think you raise an important point that most of us didn't discuss in our reviews, which is the intersectionality of identities throughout the book. Saenz is constantly questioning and pushing the boundaries of race, sexuality, and masculinity in a really powerful way. I think this all came together to paint a wonderful and accurate picture of young adulthood and trying to find what it means to be an adult. I think your point too about the inclusion of "benchmark" teenage things like driving really aids this overall impression. There were so many complexities and facets to this book that I think you could write your own novel about what each stands for and contributes to literature, and I think that is what really makes this book stand out in the way it does.
Will wrote: "Use this discussion board for your reviews of Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe"I agree with you, I loved Ari and I loved Dante as his best friend! I think that what made Ari so lovable in his journey was that it wasn't a gay character that knew or that was settled in his identity (sortve how we see Dante's character) but that there were questions, unsure moments, and a climax into an identity for himself that he could be proud of. I think that is most important for YA readers who are not just looking for representation, but representation that shows the searching and questioning of sexuality and identity within masculine contexts. There is a marriage of multiple themes that allow readers to know that it is ok to question, to experiment, to have these conversations with family or friends and how to accept (or rather enter a space) for these conversations.
Jenna wrote: "Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe. What a title. Before I read the novel, I thought the title was maybe a little cheesy but after reading, I couldn’t imagine naming it anythi..."I also agree that the title seemed a little cheesy to me too. Then I started to read and thought about all the questions I have had about growing up and becoming my own person and how those questions include my family and friends and all the 'what if' questions I asked myself. It was nice to see this book open itself up to a conglomeration of questions about growing up and while not all were answered, Ari was able to learn and grow. The most nostalgic moments are when we see Ari start to answer questions, to grow up, to realize the more secrets you uncover, the farther away from childhood you get.
Darian wrote: "I absolutely loved kicking off the celebrations and humanistic discourse that come with pride month every year by reading Aristotle and Dante. This text provided great commentary about the concept ..."Hey Darian!
Your review touched on basically everything that I felt when I was reading this novel, but I really like that you brought up the concept of loneliness and how loneliness is portrayed in YA literature. I loved the way that we saw into Ari's loneliness beyond just mentioning the fact that he doesn't have friends (until he meets Dante of course). Loneliness is addressed in a lot of YA literature, we saw it earlier this semester in "The Serpent King." I think the reason that the portrayal is so meaningful here is that we get to see Ari with Dante and Ari with the girls from school, Susie and Gina. Ari is friendly (mostly) with Susie and Gina, but he still doesn't really consider them as his friends. It always seems like Susie and Gina would be willing to spend more time with Ari, but he chooses not to invest his time in building the friendship. I think its the active choice of loneliness that is so compelling as a reader and flips a lot of the typical ways loneliness is portrayed in YA lit on it's head.
Rebecca wrote: "Aristotle and Dante is a beautifully written story of self-discovery. There's so much honesty and emotion layered throughout that to me, it read as the most authentic teenage experience of all the ..."Hi Rebecca!
I liked your review because I felt the same way. The whole thing was just so authentic, like you said. The relationships, the "talking with just looks", and all the little details within. I also felt there was a nice progression of the relationship between Ari and Dante. It wasn't rushed and each moment happened as it needed to. This book could be so powerful for so many students, especially as our society progresses positively for the LGBTQ+ community.
Spencer wrote: "As Chris and Jonathan have already said, I agree that this is a really good book. It is the perfect mix of everything that makes a YA novel geared towards young adults. It showed us how two complet..."Hi Spencer!
I loved your review!
Specifically, your quote " I think the reason this book was such a good YA novel was because the author knew what he was doing. In other books we see cringey dialogue, weird plot points, and overall just a misunderstanding of teenagers. In this book none of these negative elements make an appearance." I agree that the author chose every word carefully to make sure the characters were as real as they could be for fictional characters. Here's the thing though: Ari and Dante may be fictional, but their story happens all over the world. I think that is exactly why this novel would be so important for young adults to relate to. This story is not only important for people to relate to, but it is also important for those who may not fully understand what some people go through. This could be a great book for those who are also seeking to find understanding.
Spencer wrote: "As Chris and Jonathan have already said, I agree that this is a really good book. It is the perfect mix of everything that makes a YA novel geared towards young adults. It showed us how two complet..."Hi Spencer,
It's interesting that you mentioned that you felt the Bernardo storyline felt rushed. I went back and forth on this myself. At times it almost felt like an intrusion when I wanted to know more about Ari and Dante. For me, the inclusion of the Bernardo storyline gave us more insight into Ari's parents, the family dynamic, and how that has impacted Ari growing up in ways that he didn't realize at the time. I think it shows that adults don't always react to situations appropriately, and that decisions have lasting effects on oneself and others. The parents in this story are overall great role models, but they are still human and I came around to the Bernardo storyline because I think it develops the characters in interesting ways.
Jonathan wrote: "Ben wrote: "Hey all!Benjamin Alire Saenz had me captivated from cover to cover in this novel. His characters and their idiosyncrasies were compelling in a way where they captured my heart. Not on..."
Hey Jonathan!
I agree that the line between something special and 'YA cheese' can be quite thin and even full of holes! Many special things are fragile or even flaky that way, in my experience.
"It was very inspiring to read this book as I enter my next summer course, Creative Writing. I loved this book and have been telling everyone to read it. Hopefully I can write a fraction as well as Saenz for my upcoming course, I know his style will be drawn from in whatever I turn out."
Is your creative writing class with Zach Bean? I worked with him last summer and it was a blast! You'll certainly have the chance to explore some poetic 'prosetry' if you so wish, there is plenty of room in that class for exploration - so I'm excited for you there and enjoy seeing the inspiration that these books carry even in a genre like YA that isn't directed at us.
Rebecca wrote: "Aristotle and Dante is a beautifully written story of self-discovery. There's so much honesty and emotion layered throughout that to me, it read as the most authentic teenage experience of all the ..."Hi Rebecca,
Yes exactly - This book had a grounded sort of authenticity and genuine warmth. I wonder how difficult that is to capture. It feels like lightning in a bottle and yet, Saenz made it look so easy and therefore it felt even more familiar and close.
I agree that it's the little things that probably make this piece so special. Life imitating art I guess (art imitating life?), as I find that to be true in my day to day as well.
You mentioned the audio book, I listened to portions of it on audible just this morning. Knowing that it was Lin really made things special. As a fan of his I would say that it's likely as engaging as you imagine - and I hope that's the case when you take a listen!
Happy Sunday all!
-Ben
Spencer wrote: "As Chris and Jonathan have already said, I agree that this is a really good book. It is the perfect mix of everything that makes a YA novel geared towards young adults. It showed us how two complet..."Hey Spencer, I agree with you. I think it would have been easy for this novel to devolve into cliches, but I am glad that the author respected his audience enough to craft rich, believable and relatable characters. I think that the mystery surrounding Bernardo was a bit drawn out, but I understood Ari's obsession with finding out more about his brother. Once the truth of Bernardo's crimes were revealed, it made sense that Ari's parents would want to keep that information from Ari. However, I completely understand that type of resentment over being kept in the dark about family members. Again, I think this all a testament to the wonderful and layered writing present in this story.
Darian wrote: "I absolutely loved kicking off the celebrations and humanistic discourse that come with pride month every year by reading Aristotle and Dante. This text provided great commentary about the concept ..."Hi Darian,
I'm so glad that you pointed out that we coincided here with pride month. As I understand it, Benjamin Alire Saenz didn't come out until much later in his life. With that context this book gains an additional layer of influence/weight when viewed through that lens.
The parents in this piece were a really touching aspect for me personally, and I think I mentioned them a bit in my writeup. Saenz's character work is definitely a reason why I would happily recommend this piece to many teens and young adults in my circles here.
Truth and self exploration are themes that are highlighted elegantly in this novel. If those interest you, this would be a great place to start when constructing your own final work.
I find the theme of self truth to be even more powerful when looking a little deeper in Saenz's own life and journey.
Great little writeup, concise and thoughtful!
-Ben
Spencer wrote: "As Chris and Jonathan have already said, I agree that this is a really good book. It is the perfect mix of everything that makes a YA novel geared towards young adults. It showed us how two complet..."Spencer, I think I agree with you that this is the best YA book we have head so far, I really liked it I have concluded after some more time to reflect. You make a really good point in your response to me about how impactful the narrator was to the story. Lin-Manuel Miranda brought a lot of emotion with his reading. He definitely could have slowed down the dialogue though. hahaha
Ben wrote: "Hey all!Benjamin Alire Saenz had me captivated from cover to cover in this novel. His characters and their idiosyncrasies were compelling in a way where they captured my heart. Not only Ari and D..."
Ben, I had the same vision for what the book might be before reading, that is so funny! I like what you say at the end of your review about how Saenz treats his characters, it is a good point. He writes them in such a positive and inspiring way that we readers really connect with them.
Andromeda wrote: ""I wondered how that felt, to really like yourself. And I wondered why some people didn't like themselves and others did. Maybe that's just the way it was" (pgs. 74-75).Aristotle and Dante Discov..."
Hey Andromeda, I like that you mention how Ari's thoughts are "limited from the truth." He knew somehow that his thoughts could hurt him, so he pivoted his thinking every time it got close to a truth about himself. I think the author was very clever in presenting Ari's thoughts that way, as it felt like an authentic journey to his feelings. I thought the book was very patient with Ari, so that by the time he figured out how he felt his parents, Dante and his parents, and us as the reader have already seen and known how he felt about Dante, and all have been waiting for him to come to that conclusion too.
Ben wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Ben wrote: "Hey all!Benjamin Alire Saenz had me captivated from cover to cover in this novel. His characters and their idiosyncrasies were compelling in a way where they captured..."
My class is with Dr. Bean. Haven’t had him before, now I am looking forward to it! The only thing is I am unsure about is that he is using Microsoft Teams and not D2L. I am not a D2L fan, but after using it for 15 months I finally got the hang it. Why change on us right before the whole online thing is mostly going away? Well, whatever. Sounds like he is a good prof. Thanks, Ben!
I found this book to be both well-written and engaging. I had no prior knowledge of this book before this week, and I confidently say that this story was unexpected but welcomed. Due to the title, I assumed this book would be discussing philosophical ideas worded for a YA audience. I was pleasantly surprised by Saenz's story, specifically his ability to convey Dante and Aristotle's complex and loving relationship cunningly. One thing I loved about this story was how Ari and Dante's characters foiled each other's development through the struggle of having contrasting lives. Just as we saw in Poet X, when characters have vastly different lives, it strengthens their identity in the reader's minds. Saenz's ability to convey the feelings associated with finding your identity and the search for love was very impressive. I also really loved the relationships Ari and Dante had with their parents, and seeing that develop overtime was a highlight of the book.
Andromeda wrote: "I wondered how that felt, to really like yourself. And I wondered why some people didn't like themselves and others did. Maybe that's just the way it was" (pgs. 74-75).Aristotle and Dante Discov..."
I agree that Ari’s and Dante’s relationship development was executed well by Saenz. I also love how you said this is a beautiful story of self-discovery. Seeing their relationship start with a deep friendship allowed us to, in a sense, grow alongside them. Seeing them develop their relationship and finding acceptance of themselves while achieving that with their family made for a touching and heartfelt story, a perfect YA read to kick off pride month.
Madison wrote: ""I bet you could sometimes find all of the mysteries of the universe in someone's hand."The word that comes to mind with this book to me is "charming". I really enjoyed it. I absolutely loved the..."
Hello Madison,
First off, thank you so much for this extremely thoughtful write up. I appreciated the perspective that you offered in your edit about the transphobia present in the novel. As a pre-service teacher, I totally see how a young reader struggling with this could struggle getting through this aspect of the book. Lastly, I could not agree more about Saenz's ability to craft such a complicated and genuine relationship throughout this YA novel.
Best,
Darian
Spencer wrote: "As Chris and Jonathan have already said, I agree that this is a really good book. It is the perfect mix of everything that makes a YA novel geared towards young adults. It showed us how two complet..."Hey Spencer,
I wholeheartedly agree with your articulations about the natural flow of the plot present in the novel. Many of the time old cliches that are present in YA novels, like you mentioned, were absent in this text which made it feel extremely authentic. Additionally, the broad mix of themes and important teenage elements made this novel very different from others in this genre. Thank you :)
Best,
Darian
Jenna wrote: "Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe. What a title. Before I read the novel, I thought the title was maybe a little cheesy but after reading, I couldn’t imagine naming it anythi..."I also love this title. When I first read it, I assumed it was going to be a YA-friendly approach to philosophy, but I, too, was pleasantly surprised by this coming-of-age story. I also really liked how Ari’s and Dante’s families were presented. Especially the way Ari perceives the differences between his and the Quintana family dynamics. The contrasting relationships bring to light each character’s strengths and weaknesses and show the reader that their relationship is valid even though Ari and Dante are complete opposites.
This book is and was beautiful. The characters are incredibly relatable and the book captures all the static that comes with summer and growing up. Having your first time holding hands, feeling like you're on top of the world and can do anything, while at the same time wondering if you really can. It all perfectly mirrors the experience of childhood and the awkwardness that is growing up. It took me a couple of sittings to read this book, not because of anything wrong with it, but because I would cringe remembering parts of my own childhood that I connected to this book. All in all, it was a fun read.
Bobby wrote: "I found this book to be both well-written and engaging. I had no prior knowledge of this book before this week, and I confidently say that this story was unexpected but welcomed. Due to the title, ..."I also found this book surprisingly engaging, I was expecting something cringey and terrible that made me want to put the book down but I felt myself reaching back for it to read more and more of it.
Darian wrote: "I absolutely loved kicking off the celebrations and humanistic discourse that come with pride month every year by reading Aristotle and Dante. This text provided great commentary about the concept ..."I also love kicking off pride months with books like these, the upstart they can cause really shows everyone's true colors, pun fully intended. This book did a wonderful job of that and I would honestly love to see some people get worked up over this kind of story.
For me, this book was a wonderful and much more engaging text than the previous read of Hearts Unbroken. Whereas again this book wouldn't have been something I personally picked up at a YA level I was really intrigued by the reliability of the plot. I felt as though the author did a strong job of showcasing the real-life happenings of characters those ages or similar. The plot and storyline of this book seem as though it really could happen. and that has been something that either makes or breaks a text or even film for myself. I have always been a realist when it comes to books I picked up. The text kept my interest and was more enjoyable being that I could follow the characters and sequences of events more so than Hearts Unbroken. I would recommend this book to others and I would encourage them to read it because of its relatibility.
Alexandra wrote: "This book is and was beautiful. The characters are incredibly relatable and the book captures all the static that comes with summer and growing up. Having your first time holding hands, feeling lik..."Alexandra, I too felt that sinking feeling of just oh my gosh I see myself in parts and pieces of this text. Or remembering things that friends went through or experienced. This text was relatable to me as well and that made me much more excited to read it versus our previous read which didn't read as smoothly to me. I also liked how you said, "...the awkwardness that is growing up." I look back at experiences of my own and I think "Why? Why did I do that? Or say that?". Awkward is a great word for it.
Rebecca wrote: "Aristotle and Dante is a beautifully written story of self-discovery. There's so much honesty and emotion layered throughout that to me, it read as the most authentic teenage experience of all the ..."Hi Rebecca,
I must agree with you. I found Ari and Dante to have the most authentic and relatable friendship out of all the texts we have read this semester as well. Which I was grateful for because it pulled me back in after reading Hearts Unbroken that seemed very messy and unrelatable to me. I also like how you touched on that layered aspect of the novel because I felt that as well. Which I think added to the authenticity for me personally.
MSU LIT 382-Summer 2021
Books mentioned in this topic
Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe (other topics)Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe (other topics)
Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe (other topics)
Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe (other topics)
