2021 - June - 1941 - Operation Barbarossa and/or Finland's Continuation War

[Jonny]

As Ben Shepherd noted, the Germans expected everyone to welcome them with open arms, any resistance was met by extreme retaliatory measures and it spiraled down from there.

[Dj]

Gary wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Operation Typhoon has failed and the Soviet counter-offensive under Zhukov has commenced:

" ... 'We saw a lot of dead civ..."

Never get in a land war in Asia

followed by never make a bet with a Sicilian with life on the line.

[Dipanjan]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Operation Typhoon has failed and the Soviet counter-offensive under Zhukov has commenced:

" ... 'We saw a lot of dead civilians, old women and ..."

The Russians were equally vengeful as the Nazis. The Russ-German war was like Devil vs Devil...

[Margaret]

Jonny wrote: "As Ben Shepherd noted, the Germans expected everyone to welcome them with open arms, any resistance was met by extreme retaliatory measures and it spiraled down from there."
Would you have a reference for that interesting observation, because I've read similar things about Yugoslavia: 'They prefer the Bolsheviks to us.' (And I must apologize because I can't recall where I read that.) What I mean is, this idea the Germans had that to be German was to be decent and honorable.

[Jonny]

Margaret wrote: "Jonny wrote: "As Ben Shepherd noted, the Germans expected everyone to welcome them with open arms, any resistance was met by extreme retaliatory measures and it spiraled down from there."
Would you..."

Hitler's Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich; there's also Nicholas Stargardt's The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939–45

[Margaret]

Jonny wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Jonny wrote: "As Ben Shepherd noted, the Germans expected everyone to welcome them with open arms, any resistance was met by extreme retaliatory measures and it spiraled down from ..."

Hi Jonny,

Thank you! I think I might even have read 'Hitler's Soldiers'.
I read an horrific scene in 'Irregular Adventure' by Christie Lawrence (https://mwalkeristra.blogspot.com/) where he sees the entire horizon as one ball of flame. It is the Germans systematically burning Serbian villages in 1941. After that, the peasants and their leaders seemed to have collaborated to such an extent that, when the British came through in 1944 on their way to Belgrade, 'everywhere we found the same prosperity, so surprising after Bosnia and Dalmatia, the same overpowering hospitality, the same rich, plentiful food...The shops are full of German made goods and local produce.'

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Two excellent books there Jonny! I enjoyed them both, especially Nicholas Stargardt's book.

[happy]

I know I am way, way late for this read (that seems to be a common problem for me :)), but I am reading Glantz H. David's look a Barbarossa appropriately titled

Barbarossa: Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941

Rather short a just over 230 pages of text, it is not quite as dry as some of his books. As usual, it just chock full of information. Shaping up to be a 4 star read.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Better late than never Happy, keep us posted on your book.

[happy]

I finished Barbarossa: Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941.

Like most of Glantz's work this is a bit dry. This is a high level look at the first 6 mths of Hitler's attempt to destroy the Soviet Union. It is told mainly from the Army Group/Front level, but Mr. Glantz occasionally drops down to the Corp level to explain tactical/operational decisions.

Col Glantz does a good job of explain just why the Germans did what they did and the underling reasons for their decisions. He does express opinions on the correctness of those decisions. In some cases he disagrees with conventional wisdom (view spoiler)[The decision to divert the Panzers to Kiev for one. He thinks it was the correct decision (hide spoiler)]

He also covers just why the Soviet military performed so poorly. It was not just the after effects of Stalin's purges. There were significant changes in doctrine and upgrading of equipment happening at the time of the invasion.

All told a very informative if high level read. solid 4 stars

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Glad you enjoyed the book Happy, one of Glantz's books that I am yet to read.