THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
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The First Day on the Eastern Front
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2021 - June - 1941 - Operation Barbarossa and/or Finland's Continuation War
Finished Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East by David Stahel.My review. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
In short David Stahel argues that the Army Group center's summer offensive was a disaster in terms of equipment and manpower and Germany's economy wasn't ready for the war. The main aims for the invasion were failures and while Soviets had horrible casualties they only needed to weather the assault while Germany needed a clear victory.
While Soviets had millions of casualties in dead, wounded and captured, their army would only increase in size and also their equipment losses were quickly covered. Meanwhile Germany couldn't even sustain the meager and optimistic losses they had planned before the operation let alone the meat grinder that was Eastern front.
Already in August Germany couldn't cover the front properly, couldn't supply it's forces and it's supply situation was already in horrible situation destroying it's meager supply of trucks. Even before the mud and winter, Panzer groups had over 50% of their tanks destroyed or in repair, quite a lot of them destroyed by the dust kicked of by the spearheading columns.
Although it's only mentioned in the last few sentences, it's no surprise there was no room for winter equipment later in autumn while the ammunition, fuel, oil and tank engine situation was so precarious even in August.
While he goes for quite lengths about the disputes between different directions of Army Group Center, his main argument remains that the direction didn't really matter, the war was lost because the 'rotten structure' refused to collapse like the Germans had planned. The annihilation of the Red Army failed and the attrition of Germany's forces was far greater that their economy could sustain.
One thing that was left in my mind as unresolved was that while German's had planned for consolidating the Panzer divisions after losses, they really didn't do that. And I wonder if that's something they(army group and army commanders) should've done to make it more clear to higher command that their divisions were a mere shade of their former shelves. Ofc having less divisions would've meant having less reinforcements and less equipment but still, it could've drove on home the point that the divisions weren't anymore there, just their names.
Andrea wrote: "In the library where I work, we have this book, Hitler's Decision to Invade Russia 1941, any info/opinions about it?"Not one I've read Andrea so I can't help you there, sorry.
Manray9 wrote: "Today I am starting --
Fighter Over Finland by Eino Luukkanen.This is Luukkanen's memoirs and includes his personal accounts of both the W..."
That should be quite an interesting book MR9, I will look forward to a few quotes from the book :)
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Perato wrote: "Finished Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East by David Stahel.My review. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
In short David Stahel argues that the A..."
Excellent review Perato. I am glad you enjoyed his book and I think you will find the rest of his books covering the Eastern Front just as compelling and interesting.
The points you mentioned that the author raised in regards to why the German offensive failed are highlighted in his other books. He certainly shows quite convincingly why Barbarossa was doomed to failure, even though the defects in the plan were not seen by those on the ground conducting the fighting nor those back at Oberkommando der Wehrmacht ((OKW), or if they did they closed their eyes and hoped for the best. In regards to consolidating the Panzer divisions that would have been a battle with Hitler who would never allow a division to be removed from the Order of Battle nor would some of the Panzer generals been keen to lose their premier position in the hierarchy.
From Eino Luukkanen's Fighter Over Finland.In the late thirties Finland purchased over 40 Fokker D-XXI aircraft from the Dutch. Eventually about 92 saw service in Finland. The D-XXI was designed for the Netherlands East India Air Force and saw action in defense of the Netherlands in 1940. The first combat action for the Fokkers, however, was by Finns against the Soviets. Luukkanen shot down a Soviet Tupolev SB-2 bomber on 1 Dec. 1939 -- the first air combat victory by a Finn and the first of the war. Luukkanen liked his D-XXI. He called it a "good firing platform," and went on:
In general, its flying characteristics were good, but it was not devoid of temperament which could provide dangerous snares for the unwary. Abrupt high-speed stalls with little or no warning could catch the inexperienced, but landing was the most dangerous feature of the D.XXI as the angle of attack was high, partly blanketing the tail surfaces and resulting in inadequate control. If too much speed was lost on the approach, the D.XXI was not very forgiving and the pilot had to have some luck on his side.
Do you want to fly an airplane in which you need good luck to land?
Manray9 wrote: "Do you want to fly an airplane in which you need good luck to land?"Wouldn't that count pretty much every contemporary carrier landing =P.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: " In regards to consolidating the Panzer divisions that would have been a battle with Hitler who would never allow a division to be removed from the Order of Battle nor would some of the Panzer generals been keen to lose their premier position in the hierarchy."
I for one think that this might've been something Hitler would've not micromanaged at this point especially since it was already planned part of the offensive. Like instead of asking, they could've just done it. Then again the lost prestige of losing divisions and command post was one thing that came to my mind also.
Manray9 wrote: "Today I am starting -- Fighter Over Finland by Eino Luukkanen.This is Luukkanen's memoirs and includes his personal accounts of both the W..."
I once had a copy and have very fond memories of it. Unfortunately long since lost, and it seems to command silly prices second hand, so treasure it!
Great review—thank you Perato. I am only now learning about Operation Barbarossa and am fascinated by this discussion.
Derek wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Today I am starting -- Fighter Over Finland by Eino Luukkanen.This is Luukkanen's memoirs and includes his personal accoun..."
Mine is an inter-library loan from Virginia Tech University.
From Eino Luukkanen's Fighter Over Finland.During the Winter War Luukkanen and his squadron operated in an isolated area on the Finnish border with the USSR. In late December, they were dispatched to a makeshift airfield without any facilities – no buildings and not even tents. Often it was -30 or -40 degrees C. (-22 to -40 F). They slept rough in the snow. The mechanics did all maintenance and upkeep at night, in the open, by kerosene lantern. They even replaced engines under such conditions. After a week or so they managed to obtain one tent. The Fokkers were equipped with skis instead of wheels. It was so cold the aircraft required a 30 minute starting and warm-up procedure each morning which made quick intercepts difficult. During the day the airplanes were started periodically to keep them ready. The Fokker D-XXIs had sliding side windows. These would frost over preventing the pilots from seeing out. The solution was to keep them open for the first 10-15 minutes of a flight until the cockpit warmed up enough to clear the perspex. This made the initial minutes of a mission VERY cold!
During an early flight near the border, Luukkanen noted the vast wilderness areas over which he and his men operated. If they were forced down, chances of survival were slim. Since, apparently, all Finns of the period were proficient on cross-country skis, Luukkanen obtained eight pairs of collapsible skis to stow in the fuselages of the Fokkers. If forced down then at least they had a chance of skiing to safety.
The Finns were tough customers. As I recall it's known as Sisu.
Very interesting MR9, damn cold!!!! I like the idea of the collapsible cross-country skies - something a bit different :)
From Eino Luukkanen's Fighter Over Finland.Finland's air force suffered at a disadvantage in the Winter War and the Continuation War. Without a domestic aircraft industry, they depended on aircraft purchased abroad, some donations, and machines passed along by their German ally (in the Continuation War, that is). This resulted in a curious mix of types, some of which were ill-suited for the frigid conditions and crude facilities available on the Russo-Finnish front. During the wars the Finns operated: Fokker D.XXI, Brewster Buffaloes (44 aircraft), Blackburn Ripon (an antique at the time), Bristol Blenheims (18), Bristol Bulldogs (16 units – another antique), Fiat G.50 (35), Gloster Gladiator II (30), Morane Saulnier 406 (30), Curtiss Hawk 75A (44 machines captured from France and Norway and sold to Finland by Germany), and the ubiquitous Messerschmitt Bf 109 (159 Bf-109Gs). Quite a headache when considering the varied requirements for ammo, parts, and maintenance.
Luukkanen was delighted to be assigned ferry duty for the Brewster Buffaloes. They were shipped to Sweden, assembled by hired Norwegian mechanics under Brewster factory technical advisors, and then flown to Finland in groups of four. He loved his Buffalo. Unlike the Fokker D.XXI it had a retractable undercarriage, hydraulically-operated split flaps, flush-riveted stressed metal skin, and a controllable-pitch airscrew. Even better – it carried four Browning .50 caliber machine guns compared to the two 7.92mm guns on the Fokker. The Buffalo was powered by a Wright Cyclone nine-cylinder air-cooled radial engine which put out 1,000 horsepower on take-off and 850 at altitude. This was a significant power boost over the Fokker's Bristol Mercury radial engine. Another popular feature with the Finnish pilots was the RCA radio equipment installed in the Buffs. They praised its reliability and range when compared to the older gear in the Fokkers.
The mix of aircraft sounds like a real logistical nightmare! Thanks for posting those details MR9, very interesting.
Here is the superb account of Stalingrad hero Mikhail Panikakha's sacrifice from Chuikov's memoir on Stalingrad..Hero of the Soviet Union and Komsomolets Mikhail Aver'yanovich Panikakha, a marine in a rifle battalion, also accomplished a glorious feat in the factory district. Nazi tanks were plunging toward the marine battalion. Several enemy vehicles were moving toward Panikakha's trench and directing cannon and machine gun fire on it. Over the crash of shots and exploding shells, the clanking of tank tracks grew louder. Panikakha had used all his grenades. He only had two bottle bombs remaining. He leaned out of the trench and raised this arm above his head to hurl one at the nearest tank. At that instant a bullet struck the bottle. Panikakha was burning alive, but the hellish pain did not cloud his mind. He grabbed the second bottle as a tank came alongside. Everyone saw a burning man jump out of the trench, run to the tank and smash the bottle against the grille of the engine hatch. A flash of fire. The hero and the tank disappeared in a cloud of smoke.
Mikhail Panikakha's feat became known to all the soldiers of sixty second army. His friends in the 193rd Rifle division did not forget him. Panikakha's comrades told his story to Demyan Bedniy and the poet celebrated it in verse.
He fell, but his honor lives.
The highest award went to the Hero.
Below his name are the words :
He was a defender of Stalingrad.
In the heat of a tank battle
Was Red sailor Panikakha.
He fought to the last bullet.
The defense held strong.
But it is not for the naval brotherhood
To show the enemy their back.
He had no grenades,
Just two bottle bombs.
The Hero-sailor grabbed one.
‘I’ll chuck it at the last tank !’
Filled with fiery valor,
He stood with bottle raised.
‘One, two… I won’t miss; have no fear !’
In an instant, a bullet pierced the bottle.
The hero embraced the flame.
Having become a living flame,
His fighting spirit did not fail.
With disdain for sharp and burning pain,
The warrior hero rushed
An enemy tank with the second bottle.
Ura ! Fire ! A waft of black smoke,
An engine hatch engulfed in flame.
In the burning tank a wild howl.
The crew wailed, and so the driver.
Having done his deed, our fighting Red Sailor fell.
But fell as proud victor !
To douse the flames on sleeves,
Chest, shoulders and head,
The Warrior-Avenger, a burning torch,
Did not roll in the grass,
Nor search for salvation in a bog.
He burned the enemy with his flame.
The legends of him grow.
Our immortal Red Sailor
Panikakha's story is engraved in stone on the memorial ensemble on Mamaev Kurgan.
From Eino Luukkanen's Fighter Over Finland.On 30 October 1942 Luukkanen made his last flight in a Brewster Buffalo. He and his section tangled with a group of Soviet aircraft over the eastern Gulf of Finland. As was not unusual, it started as four Finns versus ten Soviets. In the first phase of the fight, Luukkanen noticed two of the Soviet fighters appeared peculiar. Only later did he realize they were Spitfires. The Soviets received 143 Spitfire Mk. VB fighters from Britain in 1942-43. In 1944 a total of 1,186 Spitfire Mk. IXs were sent to the USSR. As one Spitfire zeroed in on a Finnish Buffalo after a long twisting fight, Luukkanen dived in and gave the Soviet a long burst of .50 caliber fire. The Spitfire rolled over and plunged into the sea. Luukkanen then realized he had wandered away from his comrades and into the path of significant reinforcements inbound for the Soviets. Quickly he counted – two... five... nine... no twelve Polikarpov I-16 Ishak (Donkey) and I-153 Chaika (Seagull) fighters. He was in the fight of his life at 12 to 1. He figured the old saying about the best defense being offense was operative and he had at them. He wrote:
Russians seemed to be milling about in every direction. Stall turns, snap rolls, split-S's, I put the Brewster through every maneuver in the book. Several of the enemy fighters were even equipped with what were to me entirely new devices – rocket missiles... I did not have to worry about the identity of the aircraft around me. They were all Russian...
Soon his ammo ran low. One I-16 made a poorly-executed attack run on Luukkanen and overshot. That made the Soviet the target. The Finnish pilot fired his last burst of .50 caliber fire and the Donkey exploded.
Now he was out of ammo and surrounded. He wrote “Only cunning could get me out of my fix.” He “flicked” the Brewster onto her back and pulled the stick into the pit of his stomach. The aircraft screamed as speed built up. He held her in the steepest-possible dive in order to persuade the Soviets that he was in an uncontrollable plunge to the earth. At the very last moment he pulled out over the Finnish shoreline and scooted across the treetops to safety.
On that 30 October he survived and racked up two more aerial victories. The next day he was transferred to command a recce squadron. After only five months there he assumed command of the new 34th Fighter Squadron equipped with Messerschmitt Bf-109Gs. During the rest of the war Luukkanen's log book revealed he flew 19 different Bf-109G2 and G6 aircraft and logged 462 hours at their controls.
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Excellent posts Dipanjan and MR9. It sounds like Luukkanen had an angel on his shoulder on that last mission!
From Fighter Over Finland by Eino Luukkanen.Relentless and overwhelming Soviet pressure resulted in a breakthrough on the Karelian Isthmus in the summer of '44. Finland had to sue for peace. Hostilities against the Soviet Union ended at 08:00 on 4 September 1944. The Continuation War was over.
Luukkanen ended the war with 54 confirmed kills in aerial combat. To be considered "confirmed" the wreckage had to be found or -- if behind enemy lines -- the shoot-down had to be observed by two pilots. Most of Luukkanen's victories were against aircraft of the common Soviet inventory. He did, however, shoot down one Supermarine Spitfire, three Bell Airacobras, and two manned and tethered observation balloons. Balloon attacks were dangerous because the balloons were surrounded by heavy concentrations of flak. In his second victory over a balloon, flak damaged his Me-109G so badly he crash landed in no-man's land on the Karelian Isthmus and was rescued by Finnish infantry.
Pretty amazing wartime career MR9! Thanks for sharing all those posts, I enjoyed them all.
Great flying stories, MR9. He was quite the aggressive fighter -- just what was needed.
Mike wrote: "Great flying stories, MR9. He was quite the aggressive fighter -- just what was needed."The Finns put up a hell of a fight on land, sea, and in the air. So much was done with cast-off and obsolete equipment. Luukkanen wrote that of all the nations with a significant aviation industry, the Finns had planes from all except Japan.
After a brief detour and a few days delay while finishing off a book on Vicksburg I am back to Operation Barbarossa with Jonathan Dimbleby's book; "Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm". I am still reading about the history of the events leading up to the German attack on Russia with the book starting off with the Treaty of Rapallo in 1922. I am now up to the chapters covering the final few months before the start of Barbarossa:"The Soviet air force had almost four times as many fighters and bombers as the Luftwaffe, but these were too were unreliable and in poor repair. Lacking radio transmitters, their navigators were - for the most part - without the means to maintain contact with ground control. The pilots were inexperienced and this, combined with the delivery of new aircraft that had not been adequately flight tested, led to a great many fatal accidents - at the rate of several a day.
The situation was so serious that in April Timoshenko and Zhukov complained to Stalin, demanding that senior heads should roll. A few weeks later, on 10 April, the commander of the Soviet air forces, Pavel Rychagov, was summoned to the Kremlin to explain these failures to a star chamber court of senior military figures and Politburo members. Angered by the criticism, and his tongue evidently loosened by alcohol, he made the fatal error of answering back, bursting out in exasperation, 'The accident rate will go on being high as long as you make us fly in coffins.' The former fighter pilot had gone to far. Stalin, who had been pacing up and down sucking on his pipe, stopped, turned, went up to Rychagov and said ominously, 'You shouldn't have said that.' Stalin, who was unforgivingly punitive, meant what he said*"
* Rychagov was arrested on 24 June, two days after the start of Operation Barbarossa. Held responsible for the catastrophic failure of the air force to mount any resistance to the Luftwaffe's devastating onslaught, he was held in custody, tortured and, on 28 October, executed along with his wife and twenty brother officers. He was pardoned posthumously in 1954.
General Lieutenant Pavel Vasilevich Rychagov:
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/soviet...
Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm by Jonathan Dimbleby
Fighter pilots are not renowned for their tact, fatally in this case.
Had to be very careful tip-toeing around Stalin and his cronies back then!
Still working my way through Robert Kershaw's War Without Garlands. Great book, but summer activities have slowed me down. This quote of artillery soldier Franz Frisch with Panzergruppe 4 made me giggle... this is in mid November when OKW and staff at the front are not all in agreement about continuing the push to Moscow:Nobody questioned Hitler's determination. As Frisch explained, 'he was absolutely crazy, but everybody was saying "Heil Hitler".
Theresa wrote: "Still working my way through Robert Kershaw's War Without Garlands. Great book, but summer activities have slowed me down. This quote of artillery soldier Franz Frisch with Panzergruppe 4 made me g..."Very funny Theresa :)
"Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - German High Command assessments on the Soviet Union prior to unleashing Barbarossa:"Their assessment of the Soviet Union's military potential was also sobering. The more thoroughly they examined the evidence about the Soviet Union's material and human resources, the more obvious it became that their enemy had the potential to offer formidable resistance. For all its evident shortcomings and failures, they judged the Red Army to be a 'gigantic war-machine' whose structural and organizational weaknesses were offset by its size, the quality of its weaponry and, they were advised by their own observers on the spot, by 'the frugality, toughness and bravery of its individual soldiers'. Internal documents based on close observation of the Red Army warned against the temptation to be misled by its woeful performance against the Finns. In contrast to Hitler's instinctive disdain for the 'inferior' quality of the Russian soldier, these reports argued that he 'would fight to the death' to protect his Motherland and that, in defence, 'he is tough and gallant, and usually allows himself to be killed at the spot where his leader has placed him'."
Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm by Jonathan Dimbleby
I've finished yesterday
. Well written, it's based almost entirely on primary sources and being first published in 2005 I don't know if in these 16 years, especially with the recent anniversary, new documents have been declassified. But I dare to say that the book is still a valid and enjoyable read. Focusing on the idea of a planned preemptive attack, the book states that the harsh losses suffered by the Soviet army were mainly caused by the fact that the army was caught not on the defensive but still not totally ready to launch the attack.
Very interesting, worth the reading of the whole book, are the last pages focused on the reliability of memorial and official documents as a source for writing history.
Glad you enjoyed the book Andrea. It is still one that I have marked out to read at some stage.
"Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - An account from the fighting to seize the fortress of Brest-Litovsk:"Providing 'a ghastly but epic illustration of how Russian infantrymen could fight traditionally in ferocious style', the defenders yielded only after a murderous hand-to-hand struggle that left only a few hundred of them alive once the battle was over. According to a Russian nursing sister from the local hospital, who witnessed what happened when the German troops overran the compound, the invaders were not merciful:
They took all the wounded, children, women, soldiers, and shot them all before our eyes. We sisters, wearing our distinctive white hats and smocks marked with red crosses, tried to intervene, thinking they might take notice. But the fascists shot 28 wounded in my ward alone, and when they didn't immediately die, they tossed in hand-grenades among them.
This was not the kind of resistance Guderian had expected. 'The important citadel of Brest-Litovsk held out with remarkable stubbornness for several days, thus depriving us of the use of the road and rail communications across the Bug.' he noted in frustration."
The Battle for Brest-Litovsk:
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/worl...
I finished this the other day:
War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-42I'd definitely recommend this book as I found it to be informative and interesting, without being long on detail. The book only really covers the first six months or so of the campaign, with certain battles getting more attention than others. The sieges of Brest-Litovsk and Kiev are highlighted as two key indicators that the war in Russia was not going to be like the Blitzkrieg campaigns through Poland and France. For those who like the personal side of things, there are plenty of personal recollections within the text, mostly from the German side of things.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - An account from the fighting to seize the fortress of Brest-Litovsk:"Providing 'a ghastly but epic illustration of how Russian infantrymen cou..."
That sounds good, AR. I have a movie on DVD entitled Fortress of War, which was a Belorussian film made to glorify the gallant defenders of the fortress. It is very good, and they appear to use genuine Panzer IIIs in the film. Here is a link to a write-up:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1343703/
The Germans may have thought they would not have too hard a time taking the fortress, having already taken it once – from the Poles in 1939. They got a shock!
I've seen a few video clips of that movie on YouTube. I am seriously considering buying a copy.
Marc wrote: "I finished this the other day: War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-42I'd definitely recommend this..."
Really glad to hear you enjoyed this book Marc, its another title on my long list of books that I am yet to read.
Gary wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - An account from the fighting to seize the fortress of Brest-Litovsk:"Providing 'a ghastly but epic illustration of how R..."
Another book on the siege of Brest-Litovsk (which I would recommend) is this one:
The Siege of Brest 1941: The Red Army's Stand Against the Germans During Operation Barbarossa
Marc wrote: "Gary wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - An account from the fighting to seize the fortress of Brest-Litovsk:"Providing 'a ghastly but epic illustra..."
Cheers, Marc.
"Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Things were going from bad to worse for the Russians near Minsk and the approaching German armoured thrusts:"With his entire front in disarray, he now instructed every division under his command to withdraw. In the absence of telephones and radios, Pavlov attempted to deliver this instruction to his front-line commanders by means of an elderly biplane (which was swiftly shot down), and then by a succession of armoured cars (all of which were also destroyed). Eventually, two intrepid liaison officers managed to parachute into what remained of the 10th Army's command centre, where they were at once arrested under suspicion of spying for the Germans. Unhappily, the 10th Army's cipher clerks were unable to read the orders the two officers had brought from Pavlov as the codes had just been changed and had yet to reach this benighted outpost. The two officers were shot on the spot."
Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm by Jonathan Dimbleby
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Things were going from bad to worse for the Russians near Minsk and the approaching German armoured thrusts:"With his entire front in disarray..."
Great post AR and really confirms that old adage, never volunteer!
So true Mike!
Mike wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Things were going from bad to worse for the Russians near Minsk and the approaching German armoured thrusts:"With his en..."
It was said NAVY stood for: Never Again Volunteer Yourself.
I like that MR9!
"Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Vasily Grossman has finally reached the front-line at an airbase just outside Gomel. The next morning there was the sound of German aircraft flying over the airfield:"The Soviet pilots raced to their aircraft. Grossman described 'the roar of engines starting up, dust, and wind ... Aircraft went up into the sky one after another, circled and flew away. And immediately the airfield became empty and silent, like a classroom where the pupils have skipped away.' Later, they returned:
The lead aircraft had human flesh stuck in the radiator. That's because the supporting aircraft had hit a truck with ammunition that blew up at the moment the leader was flying over it. Poppe, the leader, is picking the meat out with a file. They summon a doctor who examines the bloody mass attentively and pronounced [it] 'Aryan meat!' Everyone laughs. Yes, a pitiless time - a time of iron - has come!
The laughter did not last long. A few days later, Grossman was forced to join the flight from Gomel, which fell soon after to Guderian's panzers."
Mike wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Things were going from bad to worse for the Russians near Minsk and the approaching German armoured thrusts:"With his en..."
not always true. My Recruiter told me to volunteer the first time the Drill Sgts asked for Volunteers but never again after that. I did and I got to be the duty driver. So that was pretty nice.
Lucky roll of the dice that time Dj :)
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Lucky roll of the dice that time Dj :)"True that. But it gave me a wider view of what was going on. Something that I was glad to have.
"Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Desperate fighting around Kiev:"The Russian armies who fought to save Kiev did so with a fanatical disregard for their own lives. In one sector, the crew of a T-34 tank that had been disabled by a German artillery battery managed to scramble out through the turret. Instead of raising their arms in surrender, however, the men drew their pistols to fire in vain at their tormenter. In another sector, a German infantry regiment was astonished by 'a lunatic and reckless cavalry attack which rode through our machine-gun fire' and then 'galloped through German outposts with drawn sabres, slashing down with such force that troops caught in the open had their helmets cleaved to the skull.' Just as disconcertingly, the Cossacks were followed by 'mass human-wave attacks, which we had not experienced until now'."
Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm by Jonathan Dimbleby
"Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Operation Typhoon has failed and the Soviet counter-offensive under Zhukov has commenced:" ... 'We saw a lot of dead civilians, old women and children ... It was awful,' Osipov recalled. The mood of the soldiers was shockingly captured in Alexey Surkov's popular prose poem 'A Soldier's Oath':
Mine eyes have beheld thousands of dead bodies of women and children, lying along the railways and the highways. They were killed by German vultures ... The tears of women and children are boiling in my heart. Hitler the murderer and his hordes shall pay for these tears with their wolfish blood; for the avenger's hatred knows no mercy.
During the bitter days of the Soviet counter-offensive there was abundant evidence of that truth. In the early hours of 15 December, Dr Haape and his team were snatching some sleep when they were alerted by 'unearthly, agonized cries'. They stumbled through the dark towards the sound with loaded rifles, fearing it was a trap. They reached the edge of a wood, where they saw a man staggering towards them, crying, 'For God's sake, help me.' They grabbed his arms and shone a torch in his face. Blood was pouring down from the empty sockets where his eyes had once been. They took him back to the sick bay. He told them that his four-man squad had been surprised by a unit of Siberians. He was the only one of the four not to be killed. Instead, one of his captors brought out his knife and threw him to the ground. 'There was a terrific flash of light and a sharp pain and then the same with the other eye ... then total darkness.' Both eyes had been gouged out. One of the men whispered in his ear, 'There, go straight forward to your brothers, the other German dogs, and tell them we'll destroy them all ... We'll cut out their eyes and send what's left to Siberia - that will be Stalin's revenge'."
Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm by Jonathan Dimbleby
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm" - Operation Typhoon has failed and the Soviet counter-offensive under Zhukov has commenced:" ... 'We saw a lot of dead civilians, old women and ..."
You shouldn't mess with the Russians!
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
Barbarossa: Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941 (other topics)Barbarossa: Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941 (other topics)
Eastern Approaches (other topics)
German War (other topics)
Hitler's Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Nicholas Stargardt (other topics)Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
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This is Luukkanen's memoirs and includes his personal accounts of both the Winter War and Continuation War.