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The First Day on the Eastern Front
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2021 - June - 1941 - Operation Barbarossa and/or Finland's Continuation War
"The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - This account highlights some of the many issues affecting the Soviet forces on June 22nd in Army Group South's sector. This incident refers to the movement by the Russian 8 Mechanized Corp under command of Lt.-Gen. D. I. Riabyshev"The march to Sambor was fraught with difficulties. The corps' 30,000 soldiers and nearly 800 tanks moved out slowly. Only 171 of the corps' eight types of tanks were the new KVs and T-34s; the older tanks couldn't go more than 500 kilometers without repairs, and 197 of them already had serious mechanical problems. Most of the tanks ran on gasoline - three different types of gasoline - but others required diesel fuel. The tanks' main armaments were equally diverse - five types of guns requiring five types of shells. Such a situation was difficult to manage in peacetime, but now it became a logistical nightmare."
The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941 by Craig W.H. Luther
"The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - From the chapter dealing with the Luftwaffe on 22nd June 1941:"During air raids, mothers put buckets on their children's heads to protect them from shrapnel ... As soon as the Luftwaffe came in sight, people covered up girls wearing bright colors with coats and jackets, fearing that a red dress would certainly catch the eye of a German pilot. Mothers stuffed birth certificates and home addresses in little bags and tied them around the necks of younger children so they would some chance of being identified if the mothers were killed - and many were, particularly during the air raids ... In a macabre twist, many highways were covered with scores of dolls that young girls had snatched up before fleeing and then lost to stampedes and death." - Historian Constantine Pleshakov
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - The author mentioned a German army doctor; Dr. Heinrich Haape:"Dr. Haape would spend more than two years on..."
Perato wrote: "Somewhat relating to a subject from a book barely mentioning Soviets. Writing about airforce comparison in Malay, Frank writes about Brewster Buffalo. Endnote(p628) read's as following:
Although t..."
If you think about it, it isn't that surprising. The Buffalo was a mid-Thirties design - the first US monoplane. In the R-F War, it was operating against its design contemporaries (the I 15 and I 16). When up against a plane of more modern design (e.g. a Mitsubishi or Nakajima) , it was badly outclassed.
Nick wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - The author mentioned a German army doctor; Dr. Heinrich Haape:"Dr. Haape would spend ..."
I believe the first U.S. monoplane fighter was the Boeing P-26 Peashooter, which preceded the Buffalo by six years. It was built for the Army Air Corps. The first monoplane fighter built under a U.S. Navy contract was the Buff.
Nick wrote: "'If you think about it, it isn't that surprising. The Buffalo was a mid-Thirties design - the first US monoplane. In the R-F War, it was operating against its design contemporaries (the I 15 and I 16). When up against a plane of more modern design (e.g. a Mitsubishi or Nakajima) , it was badly outclassed.."But still having 30:1 kill ratio doesn't really speak about being the worst aircraft of WW2.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "" eight types of tanks....three different types of gasoline - but others required diesel fuel....five types of guns requiring five types of shells. '..."Poor loggies would have nervous breakdowns trying to keep up with those Class III, V, VII requirements.....!
Not a good start to the war that's for sure!
"The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - From the chapter covering the Luftwaffe's role in Operation Barbarossa:"For the Russian campaign, some Bf-109s were also equipped with bomb racks to perform as fighter-bombers (Jagdbomber). Moreover, the Bf-109 now had a new weapon in its arsenal that marked a major increase in the Luftwaffe's effectiveness. This was the SD-2 fragmentation bomb (Splitterbomb), the first true cluster bomb, which was far more lethal than conventional bombs when employed against ground troops or vehicles out in the open.
Since each SD-2 was a container of ninety-six bombs that covered an area of a few hundred meters, one aircraft dropping two or three of the canisters could effectively wipe out an entre Soviet road column. The cluster bomb was so effective in the interdiction missions against the Red Army that it was accorded top priority for German munitions production. The U.S. Air Force found the SD-2 such an effective weapon that it copied and produced the bomb after the war; the SD-2 remained in the U.S. inventory as a standard munition into the 1960s."
The German SD-2 bomb:
https://www.b17museum.ch/news_e.php?i...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterf...
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - From the chapter covering the Luftwaffe's role in Operation Barbarossa:"For the Russian campaign, some Bf-1..."
Fascinating post AR, I had not heard before that cluster bombs had been developed so early in the war.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - From the chapter covering the Luftwaffe's role in Operation Barbarossa:"For the Russian campaign, some Bf-1..."
This was news to me.
We are always learning something new, the joy of reading a good book eh!
Manray9 wrote: "Boeing P-26..."In case you or anybody is interested: I found this book to be a good start when doing research on the development of US WW2 Fighters.
Apart from the history and the different aircraft (with tons of pictures including drawings of engines, structure etc.) it also has good information on fighter factors/flying/challenges etc.
America's Hundred Thousand: The US Production Fighter Aircraft of World War II by Francis H. Dean
"The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - From the Postscript of the book:"Also inflicting serious casualties on the Germans were the seemingly ubiquitous Russian snipers who, outfitted with their excellent automatic rifles with telescopic sights, struck often and without warning. Red Army snipers were a feared and deadly presence from the very start of the campaign; in fact, references to Russian snipers run like an unbroken thread through the combat portions of this narrative. As early as June 23, units of Field Marshal von Kluge's Fourth Army would complain about the sudden appearance of enemy snipers. According to a statistical evaluation undertaken by the Germans in 1944, 43 percent of German soldiers who died on the battlefield (i.e., those buried without ever making it to a field hospital for care) succumbed to shots to the head - a favorite target for snipers."
Snipers of the Soviet Union:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipers...
"The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - A few more notes from the Postscript of the book:"Just as with the Ostheer, we'll never know how many Red Army men perished on June 22; we do know, however, that the frontier battles alone (lasting for eighteen days until July 6, 1941) resulted in the destruction of the Red Army's first strategic echelon - the Germans inflicting at least 747,870 casualties on Russian forces and eliminating 10,180 Russian tanks and 3,995 aircraft. By any measure, these losses were 'both unprecedented and astounding'."
And;
"As the enormously influential German historian Andreas Hillgruber observed thirty-five years ago, what was 'decisive' (entscheidend) from a military point of view was the remarkable ability of the Soviet Union to replace its towering and unprecedented losses by mobilizing and committing to battle millions of trained reservists in the final six months of 1941. From June through December 1941, the Soviet Union generated more than fifty new field armies and a total of approximately 285 rifle divisions, eighty-eight cavalry divisions, twelve re-formed tank divisions, 174 rifle brigades, and ninety-three tank brigades. As noted in Chapter 1 (Section 1.4), it was 'Soviet divisions, not cold weather, [that] stopped the Germans'."
The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941 by Craig W.H. Luther
'Aussie Rick' wrote: ""The First Day on the Eastern Front: Germany Invades the Soviet Union, June 22, 1941" - From the Postscript of the book:"Also inflicting serious casualties on the Germans were the seemingly ubiqu..."
Automatic rifles? Does it state which models they were?
MR9, the book/author doesn't state which model/s but I'm assuming it would be the Tokareva rifle (which I used to have one in my collection many years ago):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVT-40
Robrt Kershaw's War Without GarlandsOn June 22:
By the end of the first morning the Soviets had lost 890 aircraft. of which 222 were shot down in the air by fighters and flak and 668 destroyed on the ground. Only 18 German aircraft failed to land safely after initial attacks. By that night the Soviets had lost 1,811 aircraft: 1,489 on the ground and and 322 shot down. German losses rose only to 35.
It amazes me how completely caught off guard the Russian air force was! Were they just too trusting of the peace Hitler "promised"?
Theresa wrote: "Robrt Kershaw's War Without GarlandsOn June 22:
By the end of the first morning the Soviets had lost 890 aircraft. of which 222 were shot down in the air by fighters and flak and 668 destroyed on ..."
They were mainly terrified of Stalin and the NKVD. The Soviet forces were still suffering the effects of the late 30's purges, when Stalin got paranoid about an anti-communist fifth column emerging in the event of war (per Orlando Figes' The Whisperers: Private Life in Stalin's Russia). Initiative was suppressed (shows signs of independent or anti-Stalin thinking). I also recall reading somewhere that the Air Force was even more subject to this than the army, as you had a lot more personal latitude for action in a plane. So if Stalin says they're not coming and the planes are to be lined up nearly, that's what happens. Of course, in the long run the Red Air Force could afford to lose those planes, but the Luftwaffe needed those 35 aircraft, and more especially however many crews were lost.
I'm only about 10% in of the David Stahel's Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East BUT I already am considering this to be essential book to anyone interested about the subject and solely because of the foreword(about first 30 pages). If anyone of you have this on their shelf but unread, read the first 30 pages before continuing your current book. Although Stahel's point's shouldn't be surprising, but his first chapter summarises exactly the problems of reading only one or two writers about any subject. There are so many different agendas on work especially about this subject and so many different views, and of course some very shoddy work posing as research. It's an excellent foreword to a history book and makes me really want to read the book this instant but also revalue my previous knowledge. It made me also think about having sort of Top10 shortlist of WW2 books everyone interested about the subject should read.
The best books I've read over the past few years have been the ones that challenged my preconceptions. Kershaw's War Without Garlands managed a similar feat.
That's very good to hear Perato. I have all of David Stahel's books covering the Eastern Front and his book on Operation Barbarossa is the only one that I am yet still to read. I will have to see if I can squeeze it in later this month.
Jonny wrote: "Theresa wrote: "Robert Kershaw's War Without GarlandsOn June 22:
By the end of the first morning the Soviets had lost 890 aircraft. of which 222 were shot down in the air by fighters and flak and 6..."
That all makes perfect sense. I know the purges were incredibly impactful. I've read Simon Sebag Montefiore's two part bio of Stalin, which touched on the subject. I have Robert Conquest's A Great Terror on my TBR list, but haven't read any other books dedicated to the topic of the purges yet.
Theresa, Stalin had also issued orders to all his Front commanders about not taking any action that would be consider provocative to the Germans and he enforced this directive even up and on the very morning of the German invasion.
Here is the story of Revol'd Timofeevich Sidorin as narrated by Vasily Chuikov in his memoir ' Stalingrad battle of the century' " ' What's the matter ?' I asked.
He did not answer and i finally understood. I recalled how he had become my orderly. Revol'd, a boy of sixteen, was the son of Communist Lieutenant Colonel Timofey Sidorin, whom i had known before the war as a commissar at the headquarters of the Byelorussian Military District. During the war i met Sidorin again on the Stalingrad front. He was zampolit for Sixty Fourth Army. On 26 July 1942 Sidorin was killed near a Don River bridge. I had often seen him and his son together. They were inseparable and very much alike.
............................................................................................................
............................................................................................................
Revol'd Timofey Sidorin, a boy of sixteen, had asked his father to take him along to the front. His father had him enlisted as a private in the company guarding the army headquarters. Revol'd had distinguished himself for his courage. He was a good shot with a submachine gun and always followed orders explicitly.
I attended Sidorin's funeral the next morning and was going to the observation post afterwards. Already seated in my car, i saw Revol'd. He was lying on the ground. His shoulders were shaking from sobbing. Without long thought, I yelled at him, ' Red Army Soldier Sidorin ! Get into this car immediately ! Come with me ! Grab a submachine gun and some more cartridges ! '
Revol'd jumped up, straightened his tunic and took off like a bullet to fulfill the order. He quickly returned and quietly got into the car. On the road, we talked. I found out that Revol'd's mother had been evacuated to Siberia. I asked cautiously if he would like to go join her. His eyes filled with tears and i realized i had made a mistake. I had opened a wound.
' No. If you send me away, i will not leave the front. I will avenge my father and the others, ' he said firmly. Since that time Revol'd had not been apart from me for a minute. He was calm, even merry, in battle. He was afraid of nothing. But in the evening he sometimes sobbed, quietly crying for his father.
And now, having looked into his eyes, i took Revol'd with me into the burning city.
To this day Revol'd Sidorin remains in the Soviet armed forces. He is now a lieutenant colonel. he walked a glorious soldier's path in the Great Patriotic War. ''
I've just started reading this one 
Stalin's Folly: The Tragic First Ten Days of WWII on the Eastern Frontseems interesting and, judging from the first few pages, well written, any feedback?
Andrea wrote: "I've just started reading this one , seems interesting and, judging from the first few pages, well written,..."I have that book on my shelf but haven't read it yet. Will be interested in what you think
Andrea wrote: "I've just started reading this one [book:Stalin's Folly: The Tragic First Ten Days of WWII on the Eastern ..."I also have an unread copy of that book so will be keen to hear your thoughts Andrea.
Dipanjan wrote: "Here is the story of Revol'd Timofeevich Sidorin as narrated by Vasily Chuikov in his memoir ' Stalingrad battle of the century' " ' What's the matter ?' I asked.
He did not answer and i finall..."
Great story!
RE: Operation Barbarossa:The second webinar listed in this Yad Vashem newsletter may be of interest: https://trailer.web-view.net/Show/0X3...
Dipanjan wrote: "Here is the story of Revol'd Timofeevich Sidorin as narrated by Vasily Chuikov in his memoir ' Stalingrad battle of the century' " ' What's the matter ?' I asked.
He did not answer and i finall..."
Dipanjan wrote: "Here is the story of Revol'd Timofeevich Sidorin as narrated by Vasily Chuikov in his memoir ' Stalingrad battle of the century'
" ' What's the matter ?' I asked.
He did not answer and i finall..."
Now where have I seen that? Hope you're enjoying it.
Continuing about equipment and manpower but from the German side: I'm cutting it short to save space and time, -- meaning I've cut something. Also paraphrasing to make it more readable.About tanks, how deceptive mere numbers and Models can be.
"By 22 June 1944 the combined figure for all tanks in four panzer groups of Operation Barbarossa reached 3505."
"Mark II -- with together with Mark 1 makes up over 1,000 tanks. This meant that 28 per cent of the total tank force consisted of obsolete models."
"-- if one adds the totals of all light tanks* deployed for Barbarossa - - overall total it equals 50 per cent, meaning that HALF(my emphasis) of the German tanks gathered for the invasion of the Soviet Union were largely obsolete for that theatre".
Series A Mark III tank had frontal armor of 15mm.(early series only few produced though)
Series A Mark IV tank had frontal armor of 20mm. B-D 30mm, and from E upgraded to 50mm.
"The eastern front should as much as possible live from its own materiel reserve. In case of heavy losses Panzer divisions should be consolidated together."
*Light tanks also including the Czech T-35 and T-38.
About artillery:
"Soviet field armies operated some 32,900 guns and mortars of all calibres over 50mm -- By comparison, the Germans could muster only 7,146 artillery pieces along their whole front.
And manpower:
"By the summer of 1941 some 85% of German men aged between 20 and 30 were already in the Wehrmacht and those remaining were judged to be too important to the war economy"
"Thus by Halder's own figures* the Replacement army would not suffice for the demands of the campaign through to the end of September and nothing at all would remain if the war dragged on longer".
* His own figures were quite on the low side, under half a million.
All quotes from David Stahel's Operation Barbarossa and Germany's Defeat in the East
Quite the setup to start a war. Quite a gamble.
Perato wrote: "Continuing about equipment and manpower but from the German side: I'm cutting it short to save space and time, -- meaning I've cut something. Also paraphrasing to make it more readable.About tank..."
Very interesting post Perato. A very big gamble indeed, over confidence and hubris leading to annihilation!
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Perato wrote: "Continuing about equipment and manpower but from the German side: I'm cutting it short to save space and time, -- meaning I've cut something. Also paraphrasing to make it more readab..."Agreed AR and Perato. OKH/OKW told Hitler at the beginning that they could not win a long war, a fact he seems to have dismissed when he forced the Wehrmacht to divert from Moscow to attack the Caucuses.
Finally starting my book for the group read:
War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-42Not very far in yet, but I have been pleasantly surprised by all the personal accounts and recollections--I have a feeling this is going to be a good one!
Marc wrote: "Finally starting my book for the group read: War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-42Not very far in..."
From what I've heard from other people I don't think you will be disappointed Marc.
Marc wrote: "Finally starting my book for the group read: War Without Garlands: Operation Barbarossa 1941-42Not very far in..."
I've just passed the half way point of this book today. It's been an excellent read!
Robert Kershaw's War Without Garlands - the title passage of the book:Kuby and Kohler were articulating a viewpoint fast becoming prevalent among the soldiers on the new Easter Front. This was 'Kein Blumenkrieg - quite literally 'a war without garlands'. No glory as there was after the war in France the year before, when victory parades on homecoming were deluged by clouds of flowers tossed by adoring wives and girlfriends while a grateful Reich cheered.
Also, from my reading today - some very impressive and incredibly sad stats:
3.3 million Soviet POWs would be take by December 1941. An estimated 2 million of these would perish within the first few months.
Finally started my entry for this theme read. This is a story that takes place on the northern edge of the push to Moscow but is often overlooked as a part of that battle. The main argument:That the Germans never reached Moscow was due to a variety of factors, but one that must be recognized is the heroic stand of those units that were called upon to hold the roads to Moscow in mid October. 316th and 18th Rifle Divisions at Volokolamsk, 32nd Rifle Division at Borodino and Mozhaisk, Podolsk Officers’ Schools at Maloyaroslavets, and others gave heroic evidence that the Red Army was far from finished. They succeeded in slowing the German advance until reinforcements could arrive from the far corners of the USSR and the fall rains coming at the end of the month could bring the German drive to a halt.
The Defense of Moscow 1941: The Northern Flank by Jack Radey
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It wouldn't take long to go from being overconfident to desperate:Against no opposition, the column pulled out just after sundown at 1700 hours on October 12th and headed up the road to Kalinin. It soon began overtaking and destroying columns of Soviet transport and supply units retreating up the same road towards Kalinin. The panzer division staff, tongue-in-cheek, radioed back to Colonel Hans Röttiger, Chief of Staff of XXXXI Motorized Corps that, ‘Russian units, although not included in our march tables, are attempting continuously to share our road space, and thus are partly responsible for the delay in our advance on Kalinin. Please advise what to do’ Corps, in the same giddy mood, answered, ‘As usual, 1st Panzer Division has priority along the route of advance. Reinforce traffic control!’
It all seemed like a joke. It appeared that the Red Army was done and there was nothing to stop the Wehrmacht. Moscow would soon be theirs, and the war would be over. Less than a week later, by October 18th, Major Eckinger would be dead and the division would be fighting for its life.
The Defense of Moscow 1941: The Northern Flank by Jack Radey
Theresa wrote: "Robert Kershaw's War Without Garlands - the title passage of the book:Kuby and Kohler were articulating a viewpoint fast becoming prevalent among the soldiers on the new Easter Front. This was 'K..."
Glad you are enjoying Robert Kershaw's book. The fate of Soviet POW's during the Russian campaign is always sad reading.
Mike wrote: "Finally started my entry for this theme read. This is a story that takes place on the northern edge of the push to Moscow but is often overlooked as a part of that battle. The main argument:That ..."
I hope you enjoy this book Mike. From the bit you have already posted it sounds very promising!
In Stalin's Folly: The Tragic First Ten Days of WWII on the Eastern Front, the author talks about two meetings held at the Kremlin on the evening of the 21st June, do you know if there is any transcription available, on book or online, of this meeting? thanx
Andrea wrote: "In Stalin's Folly: The Tragic First Ten Days of WWII on the Eastern Front, the author talks about two meetings held at the Kremlin on the evening of the 21st June, do you know if ther..."I can't help you there Andrea but maybe another group member may come up with some information for you.
Today is the 22nd June in Australia so I am starting this new book on Operation Barbarossa:
Operation Barbarossa: The History of a Cataclysm by Jonathan Dimbleby
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'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Today is the 22nd June in Australia so I am starting this new book on Operation Barbarossa:..."I hope it is a good one AR. It's on my list to buy. I enjoyed his Destiny in the Desert: The Story Behind El Alamein - the Battle That Turned the Tide
I also enjoyed " Destiny in the Desert" and his book on the Battle of the Atlantic so I have high hopes for his account of Operation Barbarossa.
With apologies for a truncated review posted, nonetheless, because I think Vesa Nenye's Finland at War: the Continuation and Lapland Wars 1941–45 worth reading.https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Sounds like a book to keep an eye out for. Thanks for mentioning this title Liz V.
In the library where I work, we have this book, Hitler's Decision to Invade Russia 1941, any info/opinions about it?
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
Barbarossa: Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941 (other topics)Barbarossa: Hitler's Invasion of Russia 1941 (other topics)
Eastern Approaches (other topics)
German War (other topics)
Hitler's Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Nicholas Stargardt (other topics)Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
Jonathan Dimbleby (other topics)
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That is an impressive kill ratio Perato.