Buddy read: JA book 12 The Evil Experiment

[Rebecca]

I still think this one wins for worst cover art.

[Rebecca]

I remember scaring my coworkers one time in the breakroom when I started angrily ranting st the characters and then almost crying while reading Still Alice in the breakroom.

[Rebecca]

Qui-gon and Obi-wan's trust in each other really comes a long way in this book. I also like that Tahl has been serving a similar function in the group as Oracle, post Killing Joke Bat Girl, in the Bat Family.

[Rebecca]

Both. If the movie had just been the comic with no changes or additions it would have been pretty solid. That being said Mark Hamil has done much better readings of that final monologue of the Joker's at conventions than he did in the film.

[Rebecca]

Also Ona Nobis sounds similar to two Latin phrases Dona Nobis Pacem, grant us peace, and Ora Pro Nobis, pray for us.

[Rebecca]

A quick Google search of the name Ona brought multiple possible meanings for Slavic languages it appears to mean grace. Another possible meaning, I forget which language, was one or only child.

[Rebecca]

I can't remember if we learn more in book 13 on what exactly she is looking for.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Thank you for setting up the thread, Rebecca. I had bit of a crazy work week. 13 hour long workdays. In fact I thought I'd have to stay and go to work on Saturday as well but I feel a bit under the weather after my second dose of covid vaccine (on Thursday) so I've decided to spend the weekend at home. I hope I won't regret it next week.

Anyway, I'll catch up with my reading. So there's this one positive. :)

[Allyssa, Former Moderator/Group Founder]

Hope you feel better, Zuzana!

[Rebecca]

Hope you feel better Zuzana.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Thank you. I don't feel too bad. Just really tired.

I'm reading African Europeans: An Untold History alongside my SW reading. I was looking forward to learning more about important African figures in European history but so far the book is a disappontment. So far it's like reading a summary of a book I'd love to read - people and events only mentioned, superficial information, it's like the author expected readers to do research of everything on their own. :(


Anyway, I'll finish The Evil Experiment tonight. So far I'm not crazy about Qui-Gon's torture scenes. Reminds me of that awful book Wild Space.

[Rebecca]

At least he gets to fight back and try to escape. He's damseled but not falling into the classic damsel in distress mindset. Glares at books 14 and 15...

[Rebecca]

Yeah. Apparently the Star Wars universe doesn't worry about guardians all that much.

[Rebecca]

Yeah. This is a problem you run into with this series and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson.

[Rebecca]

Maybe Tahl was so worried she forgot how to be logical for a second. I have no other explanation for it other than that.

[Rebecca]

I agree. As a kid I didn't question it. As an adult, well what if Tahl had gone as a supervisor? She's not helpless.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Hailey wrote: "I’m surprised none of the people are asking Obi-Wan where his guardian is or what he’s doing as if being bribed with credits and questioned by a 14 year old is a normal occurrence. I’d definitely be reluctant to answer questions if some random teenager started asking me about experiments and a friend that recently died."

Yes, this is a bit strange especially as Astri is very young herself and doesn't look like someone working for authorities.

The only explanation is that people either recognize Jedi garb and in order to avoid potential trouble cooperate. Or in case of Coruscanti Blue Guards they did meet Obi-Wan before so they know he works on the case with his Master and when he claimed that he was sent by the Council it sounded plausible enough to them.

As far as Ren's friends are concerned they would talk with anybody if offered credits.

Hailey wrote: "I could understand Tahl letting Obi-Wan go to Simpla-12 the first time because she thought it was a false lead. I don’t understand how Tahl is letting him go the second time without a team of Jedi knights to lead the rescue operation. "

THIS!!! Tahl says to Obi-Wan that there are several teams following different leads and that she'll send one to Simpla-12 if Obi-Wan confirms that Qui-Gon is held there. The problem with this is that by now there are strong leads that the secret lab is indeed there. Why not send a team? Also the team sent to track Ona Nobis based on her datapad is wasted on a fool's errand because she was spotted on Simpla-12 where she was paid to kill Ren's friend.

This is the first time Tahl acts incompetently.

Rebecca wrote: "As an adult, well what if Tahl had gone as a supervisor?"

I disagree. She's the one coordinating the team effort from the Temple. To abandon her position and reponsibility to follow one of the leads would be a bad choice. She made a mistake. She should have assigned another Jedi Knight to go with Obi-Wan. But to go herself would be even worse.

[Rebecca]

Right. She is coordinating. Good point.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Rebecca wrote: "Right. She is coordinating. Good point."

The mistake aside, I like that the Jedi made her the boss for this mission. She's the one sending out Jedi teams. How cool is that?!

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Hailey wrote: "All JW had to do was render the Jedi unconscious, injure them, or somehow make them unable to protect Obi-Wan when it mattered. Obi-Wan would still complete the mission. JW could have humored adult readers by at least pretending to offer a responsible guardian to tag along on the rescue mission."

Either this or Tahl could have diverted the idle team on Cinnatar to meet Obi-Wan on Simpla-12. JW could make Obi-Wan too impatient to wait for their arrival and go ahead with the mission on his own.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

To be fair to the Jedi, Tahl was acting against the protocol when she let Obi-Wan participate in the mission at all.

These quotes are from chapter 6:

""I don't like this," Tahl declared. "I should confer with Yoda. You need to be temporarily assigned to a Jedi Master, Obi-Wan. Or else stay at the Temple."

Obi-Wan persuades her to let him go.

"I'm sure we are breaking several rules here," Tahl murmured. Obi-Wan smiled. "Qui-Gon would like that." Tahl smiled, too. "Yes," she said softly.

I don't like that JW let Tahl be the rulebreaker here but Tahl was stressed out and mistakes happen in these situations. Also the first time she broke the rule it made (marginally) sense, she believed Saluss was a dead end. But as in real life rulebreaking is a slippery slope.

[Rebecca]

I find it interesting that it's Obi-wan who is convincing others to break the rules. I'm trying to remember if JW ever shows how and why he eventually becomes such a stickler for protocols.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

I think it's been shown consistently that after Melida/Daan Obi-Wan has become much more timid and prone to second-guessing himself and sticking to the rules. I've noticed the first time round I read the series and I did highlight some of the passages in the books now I'm re-reading them.

In this instance he's advocating breaking of the rules because there is (only) one thing that's above the Jedi rules for Obi-Wan and that's his personal loyalty to Qui-Gon (again it's him over-correcting after Melida/Daan). - There's a place in the series where Qui-Gon comments on this - I can't remember if it's in one of the special edition books or in Legacy of the Jedi. We'll get there eventually.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

This is from Legacy of the Jedi (no spoilers for the plot). But if I remember correctly there is more.

"And I bet you could use some decent food."

"I'm fine," Obi-Wan said, bending for his pack.

Qui-Gon frowned. There it was. Once Obi-Wan would have agreed, would have grinned at him and said, "How did you guess?" Now Obi-Wan was intent on being a "correct" Padawan. He would not admit that the days of gray, tasteless food and protein pellets were dismaying. Maybe it wasn't a case of forgiveness at all, Qui-Gon thought as they joined the line to disembark. Maybe it was a case of missing what he'd had. He had his correct Padawan back. Now he missed the imperfect boy.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

There is also Qui-Gon trying to explain to Obi-Wan that he takes his loyalty too far (how ironic!):

Obi-Wan asks Qui-Gon about his flaws, what he should be working on improving:

"Master, can you tell me something I am lacking? Something I cannot see that I need to work on?"
....
"You will be a great Jedi Knight, Obi-Wan Kenobi. I know that with every breath, with every beat of my heart. You will make me proud I was there at your beginnings. If you do have a flaw, perhaps it is simply this: You wish to please me too much."

It was true. He practically ruined his life because of Qui-Gon's deathbed wish.

[Rebecca]

Its been so long since I read Legacy of the Jedi. I had forgotten those exchanges.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Melida/Daan arc ended in book 7. These are from books 8 to 11.

in The Day of Reckoning:

"We have different temperaments. No doubt we will clash. You will come to challenge me again." "I will try not to," Obi-Wan told him earnestly. "You don't understand, Padawan." ... "I look forward to it."

in The Fight for Truth Siri challenges him:
"Are you always so cautious?" Siri asked him. "I wasn't always," Obi-Wan answered. "But now I am." He met her gaze steadily. She knew what he was referring to.

Later in the same book:
It had been impulsive, Obi-Wan realized. And he had promised himself back at the Temple that he would not be impulsive again. He would be careful.

in The Shattered Peace:
Obi-Wan reflects that he's been much more cautious than before Melida/Daan. Also he points out to Qui-Gon that they're not supposed to break local laws (when Qui-Gon decides to break out the captive princess from jail).

in The Deadly Hunter Obi-Wan is distraught that Qui-Gon delays his report to Yoda despite being notified that Yoda is waiting for them at the Temple. :D

[Rebecca]

I like that she shows this as both progress in that he needs to be less emotionally driven, and yet it can also be a flaw because you can become to insecure in your instincts and rigid in your mind.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Hailey wrote: "I don’t know what Jenna Zan Arbor expects to find monitoring Qui-Gon when he uses the Force. I’m surprised Jude Watson didn’t reference midichlorians."

Don't know about observing Qui-Gon per se but it's a standard scientific method. :)

"But I need to analyze your blood. I believe there is a way to harness the Force in it. But I can't find it! If I can discover more properties of the Force and how it's used, I can begin to break down exactly what it is."

Still a little unclear how she would go about harnessing the Force but then again I'm not a crazy evil genius/scientist. ;)
I guess if she got more time she would have discovered midichlorians. We know from the movies that their count can be discerned by analyzing blood. The fact she doesn't know anything about them (and she's so eager to see demonstrations of the Force) just proves that the Jedi are really secretive about the Force and its properties.

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Rebecca wrote: "I like that she shows this as both progress in that he needs to be less emotionally driven, and yet it can also be a flaw because you can become to insecure in your instincts and rigid in your mind."

Yeah, the implication is he overcorrected and that Qui-Gon unintentionally helped to push him in this direction (by being a prat in books 5-mid8). He then tries to get Obi-Wan a bit more back to where he started but it doesn't work. You can't swing people like pendulums!

[Zuzana, Jedi Apprentice]

Hailey wrote: "Do you think midichlorians are documented and recognized outside of the Jedi Order? It doesn't sound like it."

That's what i mean. If a forefront scientist who has decided to study the Force doesn't know anything about them it means that the Jedi are keeping their existence under wraps.

No wonder that all over the galaxy people are extremely surprised when meeting Jedi that Force powers actually exist and are not just a holonet created humbug. ;)

[Todd]

Below are some random thoughts about this book.

"We do not speak of Ona Nabis" Goq explained. The tune to Encanto's "We Don't Talk About Bruno" immediately came to mind.

With all the Jedis that are investigating Qui-Gon's whereabouts, Obi-Wan is the first to figure it out.

What was the point of draining the blood? Was it just to weaken him? Or try to force him to use the force to heal?

It is an interesting idea to investigate the force with science. However, it seems that Jenna San Arbor should have used her good reputation to try and do this research in the open with willing Jedi and/or force sensitive subjects. She would still be able to use her findings for nefarious purposes, but the research would have been much easier and would not have exposed her villainy yet.