Buddy read of David Copperfield May 2021 onwards with Cozy_Pug, Sue, Bridget, Fiona and Jenny

[Jenny]

I'm working on chapter 8 and goodness i cant stand the Murdestones! Davey is supposed to just sit there, still and silent. It rather reminds me of Aunt Marge in Harry Potter- wants him always in her sight so she can nit pick at him!

[[deleted user]]

Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Finally David is in a good school! I like Dr Strong, he seems to be a good, kind man and the boys seem to respect him - unlike the horrid Creakle. I'm intrigued by Dr Strong's name..."

That makes sense. The cherry red ribbon Jack took from Annie's dress, and the fact that she was found collapsed on the floor after he left, makes it seem as though they love each other. It's Jack's demeanor that irks me, how he spoke disrespectfully of Dr Strong - that gives me the feeling he's a bad egg. Like maybe Annie has resigned herself to her marriage but Jack has been trying to take liberties with her? I don't know, there seems to be some symbolism in that ribbon-taking that makes me wonder if this is a darker story than thwarted young love. But I may be completely off the mark myself lol! :D

[[deleted user]]

Jenny wrote: "I'm working on chapter 8 and goodness i cant stand the Murdestones! Davey is supposed to just sit there, still and silent. It rather reminds me of Aunt Marge in Harry Potter- wants him always in he..."

Ever since I saw that there was an adaptation with Daniel Radcliffe and Maggie Smith - the comparisons with DC and HP have been running through my mind, too!

[[deleted user]]

Chapter 17 illustrations -


"Somebody turns up" by Phiz, 1849


"The Doctor's walk" by Fred Barnard, 1870's

I posted the Doctor's walk illustration yesterday, supposing that was Mr Wickfield walking with Dr Strong. The source cited chapter 16. But reading chapter 17 today - I think that's Dr Strong walking with Mr Dick instead. Sorry for the confusion! :)

[[deleted user]]

Interesting chapter - David's worlds are colliding and it seems to make him uncomfortable. He didn't enjoy all the questions the Heeps "heaped" upon him :D It made me uncomfortable, too. They tag-teamed him so fast he hardly had time to consider his answers and why they were asking so many questions. Very odd, very disconcerting. Then for Mr Micawber to turn up while David is at the Heeps'!

Who is the man scaring Aunt Betsey? I thought of Mr Murdstone, since they've sold Blunderstone Rookery and moved on, but I don't think he would sneak around in the dark. And I don't think Aunt Betsey would be scared of him. So now I'm wondering if it's her husband, who beat her, turned up looking for money?

[Fiona]

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Finally David is in a good school! I like Dr Strong, he seems to be a good, kind man and the boys seem to respect him - unlike the horrid Creakle. I'm intrigued by Dr..."

I’m sure all will be revealed eventually, CP!

[Fiona]

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Interesting chapter - David's worlds are colliding and it seems to make him uncomfortable. He didn't enjoy all the questions the Heeps "heaped" upon him :D It made me uncomfortable, too. They tag-t..."

Curiouser and curiouser! I’m not sure I trust the Heeps or the Micawbers now, although if there are shenanigans afoot I don’t think Mrs Micawber will be party to them.

[Jenny]

Aunt Betsey and the dinkeys was quite funny! It also reminded me of Mrs. Merdle and the bird! CP- I actually found out that Maggie Smith suggested Daniel Radcliffe for HP!

[Jenny]

Yay Aunt Betsey! Let those Murdstones have it! I love Aunt Betsey so much, prickly as she may be, she has a heart of gold.

[[deleted user]]

Jenny I didn't know Maggie Smith suggested Daniel Radcliffe for HP! That is quite the recommendation for a young actor!

I'm loving Aunt Betsey! I'm still cracking up over her and the donkeys! "Janet! Donkeys!" :D I cannot wait to watch the DC with Maggie Smith as Aunt Betsey - my word I bet she plays her fabulously!

[Jenny]

CP, yes she was quite impressed when she worked with him in David Copperfield and thats why she recommended him, plus they enjoyed working together.
I don't know if I can look at another donkey without imagining Aunt Betsey running out to warn them off the grass!

[Lori]

Both chapter 16 and 17 have a lot going on. I’m still trying to decipher the storyline from 16 with Doctor Strong, Annie and Jack. It seems as though there is some admiration there. And I’m not sure marrying a cousin was an odd thing at this time. So more to learn about that for sure.

Peggotty seems happy with Barkis and she loves David so much hence the tear streaked letter. David is reminded of the graves left behind at his old home and how his old life is no longer realistic.

Mr. Dick is certainly getting to know David’s friends and making friends himself. Dr. Strong is quite a good man in his treatment of Mr. Dick.

I’m not sure who the mysterious person scaring Aunt Betsy could be. Could be all in Mr. Dick’s imagination.

As far as the creepy Heaps, there has to be a reason or ulterior motive for this little game they’ve played with questioning David.

[Sue]

I liked David’s thought that the man at night could be someone coming about Mr Dick, demanding or requiring money to leave him be.

The Heeps are scary in their intensity. And r wonder what they may have learned from and about Mr McCawber. Suddenly there is no remittance and the Mccawbers are ruined again. I wondered if Uriah somehow learned about that money and managed to talk his way into getting it or stealing it.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Fiona wrote: "I’m sure all will be revealed eventually, CP!..."

Yes! In fact nobody is at all "off the mark" here; there are some great observations :) Even when something seems to be contradicted, this is because Charles Dickens is putting in his red herrings to lead us away from one mystery, and adding a few more. We all know how much he loves his mysteries, and they've really started coming now :)

Cozy_Pug - Now you're discovering how many errors there are in the Victorian Web! If you think something is attributed to the wrong chapter, then it very probably is - I've found lots like this. Some names of characters, and artists, are wrong as well. I think of it like Wiki - useful at times, and I'm glad it's there - but it's riddled with mistakes :(

[Bridget]

I agree with everyone's observations! My first guess about Aunt Betsey's mysterious man was that he's connected to her ex-husband, but I also like the idea he's connected to Mr. Dick somehow.

I love how Mr. Dick and Dr. Strong are becoming friends. That's a very happy image. On the other hand, a friendship between Uriah Heep and Mr. Micawber is very very unhappy image. There is so much "humble modesty" professed by the Heeps that its obviously false modesty. Especially when Uriah Heep professes to be unintelligent, and then Davy walks into his humble abode and notices his reading materials everywhere. He probably doesn't need Davy to teach him Latin, because he already understands it!

There was one moment I noticed where Davy stood up for himself, and i thought that was a change for him. Its where he says to Uriah "Yet you didn't mind supposing I was proud this morning". I was so hopeful for Davy in that moment, but then the Heeps get the best of him as they tag team him (poor Davy).

I also noted the last line of the chapter where Davy says he's relieved the Micawbers are gone, though he likes them very much, and of course I had to wonder if Charles Dickens felt that same way about his own parents.

[[deleted user]]

Bridget wrote: "I agree with everyone's Claire Tomalinobservations! My first guess about Aunt Betsey's mysterious man was that he's connected to her ex-husband, but I also like the idea he's connected to Mr. Dick somehow.

I lo..."

Bridget, funny that you mention Dickens tiring of his parents. He moved his parents out of London in an attempt to remove his father from financial temptations. From Charles Dickens by Claire Tomalin -

In March 1839 [Dickens] travelled to Devon...His intention was to find a house in which to settle his parents and youngest brother, Augustus. He had made up his mind to spend several hundred pounds on providing them with somewhere comfortable, but far enough from London to keep his father out of mischief. With his usual quickness he lighted on a cottage at once, a mile out of Exeter, ‘a jewel of a place’, with a respectable landlady, excellent parlour, beautiful little drawing room, noble garden, view of Exeter Cathedral, a thatched roof, cellars, coal holes, two or three bedrooms, etc., etc., and all exquisitely clean. He took it immediately, stayed on to furnish it from local suppliers....

Dickens was an adult when he did this, so he was older than David, but yes, his parents were a thorn in his side.

[Lori]

That’s very interesting to know about Dickens’ parents. And very sad. Thanks for that CP

Bridget, you expressed perfectly what I was thinking of about the Heap’s constantly saying how humble they were. I just couldn’t put the right words to it. They are definitely acting with a false modesty. A truly humble person wouldn’t continually announce it!

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Cozy_Pug wrote: "He moved his parents out of London in an attempt to remove his father from financial temptations ..."

Our member Abby posted about this in our thread "I Saw Dickens!"
LINK HERE.

She used to live near the village of Alphington. In the next post after hers, I write a bit more about it, and post a photograph of John and Elizabeth Dickens's cottage, and quote what Charles Dickens himself wrote about his purchase.

I know some of you are checking out the original group read threads for information, but this is one you may well miss!

[[deleted user]]

Bionic Jean wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "He moved his parents out of London in an attempt to remove his father from financial temptations ..."

Our member Abby posted about this in our thread "I Saw Dickens!"
LINK HERE. ..."

Thank you for posting this, Jean!

And good to know about the Victorian Web - I wasn't aware of errors. Thanks for the tip!

[[deleted user]]

Chapter 18 illustration -


"David and Miss Larkin" by Fred Barnard, 1870's

[[deleted user]]

Chapter 18 is an interesting recap of David's teen years. His romances are intensely felt (on his part). So far they've been harmless loves, but I'm worried one day David will fall for a woman who will take advantage of his "love is blind" nature.

Tomorrow is a free/catchup day. We pick up on Thursday with chapter 19.

[Jenny]

Yay I'm all caught up now! I feel like David's teen years are a tad rushed through, but then again I think alot of us would rush through them if we could! I do love how David, despite everything, keeps a pleasent disposition.

[Janelle]

Chapter 18 is an good short transition chapter. Davy seems dreamily romantic yet also smart enough to be head boy. Considering his early years it was good that Dickens gave him a few years of calm.

[Fiona]

Chapter 18 Suddenly David is grown up. It does all seem a bit rushed but, as Jenny says, our teenage years are not always ones we want to revisit in any detail! I love the first two paragraphs - The silent gliding on of my existence - the unseen, unfelt progress of my life -; the description of Sunday service in the Cathedral, The earthy smell, the sunless air, the sensation of the world being shut out.... What wonderful writing!

[Bridget]

Exactly Fiona! So many wonderful moments in this chapter. We are getting the highlights of Davy's teen years. I particularly like the description of his being hit by the butcher "in a moment the butcher lights ten thousand candles out of my left eyebrow" This is why I love Dickens. So much better than simply saying the butcher hit me in the eye!

I also marked this little passage
"That little fellow (young Davy) seems to be no part of me; I remember him as something left behind upon the road of life -- as something I have passed, rather than have actually been -- and almost think of him as of some one else"

This quote is interesting on a couple levels. First, given the previous 17 chapters, I'd say the narrator (older David) remembers young Davy rather well, and not as "something that is no part of him". But then if you think of this particular passage as being the feelings of a teenage Davy, then this sentiment makes sense. I can remember as a teenager feeling like this. Its normal for teenagers to cast off their childhood, its how one grows up. As we age though, we want to reclaim that childhood. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. So in this quote we have teenage David casting off young Davy and its all being told to us by an older narrator -- David Copperfield.

[Lori]

Bridget I thought that description of being hit was the best phrase I've read in a long time. Fantastic! And exactly the reason we are reading this!

[Fiona]

Bridget wrote: "Exactly Fiona! So many wonderful moments in this chapter. We are getting the highlights of Davy's teen years. I particularly like the description of his being hit by the butcher "in a moment the bu..."

You’re right, Bridget. I think as we grow older, we cast off all the bits of our past that we don’t want to lay claim to any more. Well put.

[Sue]

This was a memorable chapter. I enjoyed his discussion of the new young woman he loved. She who was 30 but certainly not too old for him since he was almost 18. When he was introduced to the older man who was in the hops business, I feared someone had learned of Davy’s old work. And then to learn the old man would be his love’s husband. Adding insult to injury.

He is such a teenager!

[Curt]

Such point on writing. Makes the image of the event come alive.

[Lori]

Chapter 19 - long chapter with so much happening!

Aunt Betsey thinks David needs to figure out what he is to do with his life. In the meantime, she thinks he should go visit Peggotty and learn to be independent and go on his own. Interesting how she talks about how much David resembles his mother and also his father.

David stops in Canterbury to see Agnes and Mr. Wickfield. He confides in her how good and kind he believes her to be and that he hopes she will find a suitor someday that will deserve her. They talk about her father and how he seems to be ill, hands trembling and unclear speech which concerns her. David thinks it has something to do with Uriah.

They go to tea at Dr. Strongs were we learn that he is retiring so he can focus on his dictionary and Annie. Her mother is back and talking weirdly about a letter from cousin Jack ill in India and she even thinks he may die before he leaves. She must be exaggerating to stir up Dr. Strong and Mr. Wickfield. Annie has been quiet and timid this whole discussion and then is forced by the Old Soldier to read parts of the letter Jack wrote to her. She doesn't want to do this at all. David begins to be suspicious of Annie and Jack.

Annie and Agnes sing together and Mr. Wickfield clearly dislikes this coziness between these two, but not sure why this would be??

David leaves and heads to London where he sees a play and falls in love with the theater!! And back in his lodging he runs into his old friend Steerforth who is doing quite well for himself at Oxford now.

[Fiona]

Chapter 19 As Lori says, this is a long chapter. David visits Canterbury to say his goodbyes. It’s interesting how easily he is taken advantage of by others, how naive he can be, and yet he clearly observes Mr Wickfield’s distrust of Annie with regard to Jack Maldon. He realises that Dr Strong is being hoodwinked in some way. It’s a difficult situation to interpret but Jack is definitely ‘at it’, pretending to be ill so that he can return to Blighty and, no doubt, to Annie. David also sees that Mr Wickfield’s drinking has increased and that Uriah Heep is taking advantage of him when he has been drinking.

This same David allows himself to be demoted on the coach, to be given an awful room - until Steerforth gets it changed - and to be manipulated by the waiter. Worldly wise he isn’t!

I’m thoroughly looking forward to his visit to Peggotty ahead.

[Lori]

Fiona, I thought that was not too savvy of David to give up his place either. It will be interesting to see how this trait of his manifests itself as he becomes an adult.

I am looking forward to the visit as well.

Has anyone else been disappointed so far with the amount of interaction David had with Aunt Betsey since he came to be with her? I am glad he got to go to school but I was so hoping to be able to witness some lovely moments between them. Like all of us, I'm a Betsey fan and want more of her!!

[Sue]

Lori, I agree. I’d like to see more interaction with Aunt Betsey. It was nice having that brief view of her seeing similarities to both of his parents.

I’m curious about what will happen with Uriah Heep. I’ve heard that name for so long and I’m expecting a big shoe to drop at some point.

And the Old Soldier really doesn’t seem to have any redeeming features. Yes she is advocating for her son but clearly it’s not to benefit Doctor Strong who she’s sponging off. I see giant leech when I think of her. Annie seems more passively involved in it all. Not innocent, but not active like the Soldier.

[Angela]

Gah!!! Two chapters behind and staying away to avoid spoilers. Trying hard to catch up plus get The Black Veil read. Stupid work. A.

[Fiona]

Lori - I like the way Aunt Betsey is in the background as a stable influence and carer. We know she’s there for David/Trotwood. In a film version, I’d love to see a lot more of her though. My ideal casting would be Maggie Smith and I can’t keep Miriam Margolyes out of my head for Peggotty.

Sue - me too re Uriah Heep. I had a crossword clue the other day that was a bit of a spoiler but otherwise I haven’t a clue what he’s going to do. Nothing good, I suspect.

[Fiona]

Chapter 20 A revealing chapter though short. David goes to stay with Steerforth and meets his mother and Rosa Dartle, her companion. Steerforth was an awful child to have hurt Miss Dartle so badly. He could have killed her but can do no wrong in his doting mother’s eyes. I don’t buy that he was sent to Mr Creakle only because he could lord it over him. Maybe he had been expelled from elsewhere? Maybe it was financial too? Although money doesn’t seem to be an issue.

Miss Dartle [She was a little delapidated - like a house - with having been so long to let] has a dart-like, piercing quality so is well named. She has Steerforth well sussed - partying his time away in Oxford, adopting David because he’s easily used. She says He thinks you quite young and innocent; and so you are his friend? Well, that’s quite delightful! Everything she says is so full of vitriol and sarcasm but is also insightful.

[Tr1sha]

Fiona wrote: "Lori - I like the way Aunt Betsey is in the background as a stable influence and carer. We know she’s there for David/Trotwood. In a film version, I’d love to see a lot more of her though. My ideal..."

Nice casting, Fiona. I think Pauline Quirke would also be good as Peggotty.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Fiona - in the BBC radio adaptation of David Copperfield from 1994, Miriam Margolyes did indeed play Betsey Trotwood. It was 10 hours long and one of the best audio dramatisations of anything I've ever heard! But sadly it has never made it to CD :(

Trisha - Pauline Quirke played Peggotty in the BBC TV miniseries - the one with Daniel Radcliffe as young Davy.

For fans and enemies of Aunt Betsey, Uriah Heep - in fact pretty much every character who's been mentioned so far, please have faith in "the Inimitable". He never lets us down and they will come back with a vengeance :)

[Jenny]

Well Steerforth is not at all like David remembered him... He has no drive and seams to have been a mean child, to have thrown a hammer! I agree Fiona, David sees somethings, like the Annie/Dr Strong tension, but yet does not see Steerforth's undesirable traits, and as you said, lets himself be demoted off the carriage seat.

[Lori]

Bionic Jean wrote: "Fiona - in the BBC radio adaptation of David Copperfield from 1994, Miriam Margolyes did indeed play Betsey Trotwood. It was 10 hours long and one of the best audio dram..."

Thanks Jean, you are so right! I will be patient for more Betsey!

[Lori]

Fiona, I liked what you said about Miss Dartle. The quotes you chose were perfect - especially the first one. It's such a funny way of saying she's a spinster but would like to be married.
She seems to keep Steerforth's shenanigans in check as his mother won't see his behavior for what it really is.
Her name is just like her words - sharp and sarcastic.

David thinks nothing of being called Daisy by Steerforth. If anything he feels as if it's an endearment rather than a raz at him. Steerforth's real personality has come forth in this chapter. Seems to me that David is an easy target for Steerforth to make fun of and David is just such a good person or not worldly enough to even realize what's happening. Steerforth even says to David earlier on I feel as if you were my property He has had a habit of letting others take advantage of him. If Steerforth comes to Yarmouth with him, that will be interesting. I didn't like the discussion about that sort of people in reference to the Peggotty's. Steerforth is making a distinction here of his higher station.

The portrait of Miss Dartle in David's room was odd and caused David some uneasiness. David tried to get rid of her by turning out the light but he couldn't even get her out of his dreams!
and when I awoke in the night, I found that I was uneasily asking all sorts of people in my dreams whether it really was or not - without knowing what I meant.

[Tr1sha]

Bionic Jean wrote: "Fiona - in the BBC radio adaptation of David Copperfield from 1994, Miriam Margolyes did indeed play Betsey Trotwood. It was 10 hours long and one of the best audio dram..."

Interesting, Jean - thanks for this.

[Mike]

I so love David Copperfield. Thanks to everyone for this thread as it makes me fully understand the book

[Fiona]

Bionic Jean wrote: "Fiona - in the BBC radio adaptation of David Copperfield from 1994, Miriam Margolyes did indeed play Betsey Trotwood. It was 10 hours long and one of the best audio dram..."

Jean - I can’t see her in that role at all, funnily enough. Isn’t Aunt Betsey supposed to be tall and thin? Thank goodness for radio!

[Sue]

Rosa Dartle understood Steerforth’s true feelings and intentions toward the Peggoty family too. While David thought Steerforth would explain to him that his demeaning comments were, of course, sarcastic, there wasn’t any such explanation. I’m afraid of what might happen in Suffolk. And will David see the truth about his hero.

[Fiona]

Sue - yes, again Rosa saw through Steerforth. I was disappointed that David didn’t challenge him on his outrageous snobbery, particularly as it was directed at people who are like family to him. I also fear what might happen in Suffolk.

[Franky]

Fiona wrote: "Sue - yes, again Rosa saw through Steerforth. I was disappointed that David didn’t challenge him on his outrageous snobbery, particularly as it was directed at people who are like family to him. I ..."

David's "worshipping" of Steerforth is one of the disappointing aspects of his character, I agree. It's like he has blinders on at points with certain people in his life. And his falling in and out of love repeatedly. He still seems naive to life at points.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Fiona wrote: "Thank goodness for radio! ..."

Indeed! The radio casting of Sherlock Holmes for the whole oeuvre had a superb voice, but the actor was too short to do it on TV.

Oh yes it was Peggotty you wanted her for - sorry! But there are a few actors who seem to be in virtually every single dramatisation of Charles Dickens, and she's one. Real fans :)

[Angela]

Caught up, yay!!!!! Does anyone else smell a rat where Steerforth is concerned?? I read this book years ago but don't remember much of it so this is all new again. Very suspicious about him and Emily.

[Janelle]

I’m the same as you, Angela. I’m more nervous about what Steerforth will do than Uriah Heep!