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Buddy read of David Copperfield May 2021 onwards with Cozy_Pug, Sue, Bridget, Fiona and Jenny
I am not as happy with the Micawbers after reading this chapter. I am disheartened by the way they now have wrapped up Traddles in their dismal money mistakes. I really can't understand. Mr. Micawber thinks so highly of himself and so does his wife and his abilities but what is it about him that no one wants to help him? Or hire him? It must be that he just can't manage money. This reason makes sense as to why his wife's family doesn't want to help but why do no businesses want to hire this genius? Hmmmm.... Now they are stranded once again without paying rent and allowed Traddles to have all he owns taken for payment on the 25 pounds he promised. Oh, my I feel so sorry for him and his bride-to-be. I so hope that David will figure out a way to help him - Traddles. I really really don't think our next chapter is going to be lighthearted. Steerforth must have a reason to delay David going to Yarmouth. The whole thing with him and Litttimer is weird. And I hated to hear how rude Steerforth was about Traddles - not recognizing him and playing him off as a bore! Ugh, he's up to no good. And there was a letter in his pocket that noted his name as a debtor - to an inn, possibly? Hmmm.... well, well, mommy will just pay that which is probably why he has to go see her.
I'm not sure what I think about the comparison of Littimer and Carker. I need to look back to the chapter when David first meets him and the older David remarks something regarding how Littimer would affect him somehow later. Does anyone remember this instance?
Well, I think I found the part I was thinking about but I'm not sure if I'm reading it wrong. Chapter 21 Little Emily
David says I am particular about this man[Littmer], because he made a particular effect on me at that time, and because of what took place thereafter.
The word thereafter is what's got me hung up. It's narrator David talking so he knows the future event that made an effect on him or he's referring to what's about to happen right then in the story while they are visiting Yarmouth.
Hmmmmm.....Any thoughts?
Lori, I'm so glad you found that line again - I couldn't remember where it was, but I do remember the foreboding feeling it had.I feel like Littimer is Steerforth's "fixer". He comes in after the fact and cleans up Steerforth's mess. In that sense I think Steerforth is the person to be concerned about, not Littimer. But then Littimer is helping him along, isnt' he? In Chapter 28, I got the feeling Littimer was avoiding saying Steerforth was not at Oxford. Littimer must have known Steerforth was in Yarmouth.
And then there's that letter of debt you noticed in Steerforth's pocket. Its to an Inn at Yarmouth, so apparently Steerforth has been staying there for quite awhile. And now he wants to keep David out of Yarmouth. He's hiding something. And Littimer is helping him do so. At least that's what I think for now. You are right, I fear, the next chapter will not be happy.
Can't shake the feeling this all means something bad for Little Emily (the girl, not the boat!!) All that talk of Steerforth pushing on until the race is won. And David wishing Steerforth had some worthy race to win.
Mod
As for Littimer being of a lower class - well yes Bridget, that's true, but he's the typical English snooty servant. In Little Dorrit, the great Mr. Merdle, the "Wonder of the Age" lived in fear of his manservant, who knew he wasn't quite the ticket - not from a good family - but a jumped-up parvenu.
Closer to home, I was once at a restaurant where the waiter was so snooty that he made us all feel like klutzes :( My husband didn't bother with his serviette, but the waiter disapproved of our casual attitude, and carefully spread it over his lap. He may have called us "sir" or "madam" to our faces, but that was not what was in his mind!
Poor young David, with his "tight boots". Boots, again!
I just love Mrs. Crupp - that lazy wily woman!
LINK HERE for the group read of this chapter, with a couple of illustrations and more info.
Oh, Bridget, your insight is fantastic! I can see Littimer acting as Steerforth's fixer, and as his servant, he is doing it because he must without any personal thoughts about what he's told to do. So far, I don't think there is any conniving in LIttimer - Steerforth though - definitely conniving at something. I certainly think something bad bodes for Emily. I think your mention of the race to be won is foreboding.
Thanks so much Jean for chiming in! It's so good to know when we're on the right track. I can't imagine a waiter acting that way to a guest. How dare he!
Bridget - Dora is nondescript. She’s idealised in David’s mind and I don’t think he really cares what she’s actually like. It’s the idea of falling in love with her that’s the attraction. A la Don Quixote! Like Lori, I also love the idea you have of Littimer as Steerforth’s ‘fixer’. Lori/Bridget - I think there’s little doubt Steerforth is spending his time in Yarmouth wooing Emily. It can only end one way, I think, and that’s badly for all concerned.
Jean, I’m glad you mentioned the boots. I loved David’s comment that one can’t possibly digest properly if ones boots are tight. The feet must be comfortable for the insides to function.
Oh, and Littimer, I do think he knows plenty of what has been happening in Yarmouth but somehow “lost” Steerforth. Perhaps Steerforth ran out on his rent. That might be one way they got separated. Whatever happened, apparently Peggotty didn’t know of it when she gave Steerforth the letter. I agree that there is likely to be some fateful news coming.
And I feel bad for Traddles too. That must have been a good sum of money in those times.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Lori - yes your instincts are right. The narrator is heavily implying things here :)As for Littimer being of a lower class - well yes Bridget, that's true, but he's the typical English snooty ser..."
Thanks Jean. That helps me get a better picture of Littimer in my head. My goodness, what a story about the waiter. I hope its something you all laugh about now.
Fiona wrote: "Bridget - Dora is nondescript. She’s idealised in David’s mind and I don’t think he really cares what she’s actually like. It’s the idea of falling in love with her that’s the attraction. A la Don ..."Good point. The more I read on, the more I think that David is in love with being in love. The way he carries on makes you think he is in more infatuation than anything else. The Don Quixote reference is spot on..haha.
Chapter 29 has an air of menace. Rosa Dartle is clearly suspicious of Steerforth and knows he’s up to something that will affect his relationship with his mother. Don’t you just want to shake her by the shoulders and tell her to spit it out?! Steerforth’s appeal to David to remember him at his best and the last sentence of the chapter signal a tragedy to come.
Obviously once David reaches Yarmouth he is going to discover something worse than the fate of Pegotty’s husband. David’s final thought of the chapter indicates it will be something unforgivable.
I definitely think Dartle is suspicious of Steerforth’s being gone. She may know something but isn’t saying what. I also get the feeling that she loves him despite everything in their past and the scar. Mrs. Steerforth indicated she used to be different, more trustful. We get the idea that because Steerforth and his mother are similar in their morals that they’d never go against one another because of duty. Well, that’s certainly open to foreshadowing. We know about his debt but she doesn’t yet. Certainly indicates a quarrel in the future.I thought it was rather interesting how Steerforth had a way about him that could calm Dartle down. It’s as if he has a softer side but she blew up at him so there’s definitely something to all of that cat like behavior.
Steerforth also wished he could be Daisy as if to indicate innocence but he is not and cannot be.
The final line is so final - finale to the friendship because I think Steerforth knows once David gets to Yarmouth, there won’t be any fondness left between them.
I think Dickens is really stretching out this secret and has providing a ton of moments in this chapter to leave readers wondering and dying to know!
He may also be laying the ground for the end of David’s innocence and naïveté.
Lori wrote: "I definitely think Dartle is suspicious of Steerforth’s being gone. She may know something but isn’t saying what. I also get the feeling that she loves him despite everything in their past and the ..."I know, Lori. I can’t wait til tomorrow’s chapter! This has given me a sense of what it must have been like waiting for the next chapter to be published. I’d have been first out as soon as I heard the paperboys shouting! Or perhaps I’d have sent the butler ;)
I know! Can you imagine if this had been the end of this installment? What a cliffhanger to have to wait for. By the way, I believe we have two more chapters for this installment. 4 total - 28, 29, 30, 31.
I may have to keep reading without the break in between installments. We’re about halfway now and I am excited to see what comes of David!
I agree,Lori. It’s difficult to stop reading after these chapters but I force myself since I’m afraid I’ll confuse the details.Does this mean we will read four days before a break?
Ya, Sue that’s right. I’m looking at the original read thread and it shows 28-31 this time.
Fiona wrote: "Lori wrote: "I definitely think Dartle is suspicious of Steerforth’s being gone. She may know something but isn’t saying what. I also get the feeling that she loves him despite everything in their ..."Fiona, I had a big smile reading this comment!! I think I would have been the same way. I agree with Sue, it really is hard to put the book down now.
Lori, I liked your comments about how Steerforth could calm Miss Dartle. And then he quickly hurt her feelings. It felt like he was just playing with her like a cat plays with a mouse. That speaks volumes about Steerforth's charisma, and lack of compassion for others.
I think Lori is right, there are four chapters in this installment. I'm reading the Penguin Classics edition and it lists the chapters by installment. I believe we are on installment ten which includes Chapters 28-31. So I think we read until Friday and then have a day off. Does that sound right?
Sue wrote: "He may also be laying the ground for the end of David’s innocence and naïveté."I like that thought Sue. You could be onto something there!
Lori wrote: "I know! Can you imagine if this had been the end of this installment? What a cliffhanger to have to wait for. By the way, I believe we have two more chapters for this installment. 4 total - 28, 2..."
I’m delighted to hear that, Lori. I’m beginning to struggle with the idea of taking a break but want to read the chapters at the same time as my ‘buddies’ so I don’t want to read ahead. Thanks for letting us know.
I love how Barkis and Peggotty, as much as they don't seem like they would get along, actually do greatly care for each other. I do feel bad for Barkis as well, being bed ridden that long. And, again, we have the tides- He goes out with the tide, and Mr.Peggotty says that people will only die with the outgoing imtide, and be born with the incoming tide.
Chapter 30. Yes I loved the references to the tide as well, Jenny.
Fitting last words :
“Barkis is willin'!'
And, it being low water, he went out with the tide.”
The final line is just perfect!
Ch 30 has me feeling sad for Peggotty and for Emily. Peggotty has lost her man but he in his true form remained his old comic self until the end. And yes, I loved the reference to water and the tide that Dickens loves to use with a death.Emily has altered even more since David’s last visit. She is really clinging to Mr. Peggotty and appears very scared, shying away from David who she used to confide in. She is avoiding Ham’s affection as well and he seems to believe her behavior is due to her sensitive nature. David is reminded of her fear of death and sees a shadow of what he thinks is Emily when he walks past his old room. This doesn’t sound great at all but very ominous.
Martha is brought up again but nothing specific about how she is doing in London. Dickens wouldn’t just throw that in without wanting us to think about her significance. I’m not sure what it could be.
Janelle - I agree. A perfect ending.Lori - Emily hasn’t shown Ham much affection since the engagement was announced. Her behaviour has been bizarre. Surely no one can think that normal? Ham is a big soft lump but must surely realise that she’s not exactly happy?!
It’s odd that Martha should be mentioned in passing. As you say, there must be a reason.
I enjoyed the conversation David has with Mr. Omer. It never occurred to me that the man running the funeral home would have to stay away from his dying friend's bedside because his presence would make everyone uncomfortable. Or worse, he would be seen as trying to drum up some new business.
Fiona wrote: "Janelle - I agree. A perfect ending.Lori - Emily hasn’t shown Ham much affection since the engagement was announced. Her behaviour has been bizarre. Surely no one can think that normal? Ham is a ..."
I was wondering why no one sees Emily is unhappy too. Then it occurred to me, people usually see what the want to see - not whats really there. (That's something that is especially true of David, I think). All of Emily's family so badly wants her to marry Ham, they are ignoring how she feels. And she must feel so much pressure to do that.
(By the way, was that normal in Victorian times for first cousins to marry each other?? Because my modern brain thinks that's kinda gross).
Feeling some sadness for Peggotty and David for the loss of Barkis, a truly good character. Agree about the way David describes the loss of Barkis in the final lines about being a perfect way to end the chapter of loss. That was a quote that I highlighted too.
I liked this quote too:
"Peggotty took me in her arms, and blessed and thanked me over and over again for being such a comfort to her (that's what she said) in her distress. She then entreated me to come upstairs, sobbing that Mr. Barkishad always liked me and admired me; that he had often talked of me, before he fell into a stupor..."
David has lost a friend.
Bridget, yes it was normal to marry first cousins in the Victorian era. Victoria's husband Albert was her first cousin. Many royals kept marriage in the family. I think they believed they were keeping the bloodline pure (which goes to the dinner topic in an earlier thread where they were talking about Blood). I also think they married cousins to keep the money in the family as well. Please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong about this.
I think it’s legal in many places for first cousins to marry these days as well. It’s definitely not as common though and not approved of. Probably why we all feel a bit uncomfortable about it.I remember when I first read Wuthering Heights I found the cousins marrying weird.
Thanks Lori and Janelle! I forgot about Wuthering Heights, and Victoria and Albert. And that does tie beautifully into that blood discussion!!
So, Chapter 31 makes me DESPISE Steerforth. He took a happy young couple and insinuated himself for what??? His own blasted game. Rather interesting we see a male home wreaker, as it's usually a woman.I also love that Ham and Uncle Dan are so willing to forgive Emily, as they know she has been blinded and maneuverd into a bad situation. I hope this ends up resolved in a way that does not overly harm Emily, though I can't see her and Ham marrying anymore.
Emily’s almost plea that she won’t be back unless le brings her back as his lady is so sad. Somehow it seems so obvious that she will never be a lady. Steerforth has no honor and, as we know from his last conversation with David, knew then that he had gone much too far. Everything he does is for his own pleasure. Very likely he will lose his allowance too.
We knew it was coming but it’s so sad to read of it. Sue - I’m not sure he will lose his allowance. He’s such a Mummy’s boy and I doubt he’d risk losing his income. Heavens! He’d have to work for a living! As you say, it’s all a game and he has won. Or has he? Emily can only be a loser. Will she end up like Martha? Is that why Dickens mentions her briefly?
I was thinking about that conversation, was it with Rose Dartle, about what would happen if Steerforth and his mother ever came to odds. If she learns of this, her attitude toward her son might change.
Sue, I definitely think there's something to what Rosa Dartle was insinuating about Steerforth and his mother. We shall have to see what happens on that front. Fiona I agree that Emily is the one most hurt here. She most likely is in a situation that she can't bounce back from and could be the reason Martha is mentioned.
Jenny, I also doubt Ham and Emily can be married now. But it's refreshing to see the forgiveness in Dan and Ham. They truly love her where Steerforth is just playing a game and we don't know what the prize is?
Mod
That read was straight through, but Cozy_Pug suggested using the way we read Dombey and Son with the extra breaks. I think the writing in David Copperfield is more straightforward - though there are just as many mystery elements Charles Dickens enjoys "stretching out", as Lori said :D So really it's up to the majority feel.
Cozy_Pug has to be offline for a few months, by the way, due to unforeseen circumstances. She's missed here, but I know she hopes to be back with us next year.
Oh no, Cozy Pug will be missed during that time:( All the best to her though!
Lori wrote: "I definitely think Dartle is suspicious of Steerforth’s being gone. She may know something but isn’t saying what. I also get the feeling that she loves him despite everything in their past and the ..."Finally caught up. WHAT IS UP with the Dartle? Something funky going on there.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Is everyone happy keeping to the chapter-a-day format? I'm getting the impression the day off between installments isn't really needed, but if so then chapter 32 will be on Sunday (for a normal 3 c..."I’m happy to read a chapter a day if everyone else is. Sorry to hear about Cozy_Pug. She has been a great contributor to these discussions. Please send her our best wishes, Jean.
I'd also be happy to read a chapter a day if the group wants to. I hate to hear about Cozy_Pug as well. She's been in my thoughts lately and certainly missed here.
Angela wrote: "Lori wrote: "I definitely think Dartle is suspicious of Steerforth’s being gone. She may know something but isn’t saying what. I also get the feeling that she loves him despite everything in their ..."Definitely agree!!
Like that whole scene where Steerforth coaxes her into playing her harp. That was VERY interesting. It begins with David saying
"One other little circumstance connected with Miss Dartle I must not omit; for I had reason to remember it thereafter" Well, that's interesting!!
And then, David is so moved by Miss Dartle's playing and he says "it was as if it had....sprung out of the passion within her" which made me think back to the first description of Miss Dartle "Her thinness seemed to be the effect of some wasting fire within her, which found a vent in her gaunt eyes" Which paints the picture of Rosa Dartle not as solely a cold, hard edged person, but a person with firey passion inside.
And I think Lori is right, I think Miss Dartle is on some level still in love with Steerforth. I think he hurt more than just her face with that hammer, I think he's also hurt her heart. And in that sense, I being to see Rosa Dartle as foreshadowing what's in store for Emily.
Jean, please pass on my thoughts to Cozy _pug too. I’ve been missing her.
Also wanted to say, I agree with everyone, what a sad chapter. Even though we knew it was coming its hard to read.On a happier note, how about Barkis!! He certainly has changed the lives of Peggotty and her brother. The timing of reading Barkis' Will with Emily fleeing is interesting. In the Peggotty/Barkis marriage we see a possible life that Emily could have had if she married Ham. He would have been like Barkis - worked hard, lived frugally and saved money to provide a comfortable life for his wife and family.
Poor poor Emily. She is torn apart by her decision to leave. Which is a huge contrast to Steerforth who was (last time David saw him) sleeping soundly, his slumber unencumbered by his conscience.
Oh, I would be happy to read a chapter a day too.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Is everyone happy keeping to the chapter-a-day format? I'm getting the impression the day off between installments isn't really needed, but if so then chapter 32 will be on Sunday (for a normal 3 c..."I'm happy to do whatever everyone else wants. One chapter a day or a day off in between sections-- either works for me. I miss Cozy-Pug's comments, and hope she is back soon; and sending her lots of support for whatever she has going on.
Bridget wrote: "Also wanted to say, I agree with everyone, what a sad chapter. Even though we knew it was coming its hard to read.On a happier note, how about Barkis!! He certainly has changed the lives of Peggo..."
Very good points, Bridget. The contrast between Steerforth’s lack of conscience and Emily’s troubled one is profound.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
David Copperfield (other topics)A Message from the Sea (other topics)
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Little Dorrit (other topics)
A Message from the Sea (other topics)
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Oh, I like that Don Quixote comparison! Very nice.
What do you all think about Dora? She seems a bit frivolous and silly to me. Always talking through her little dog Jip. I'm not sure Aunt Betsey is going to like her. Too bad David doesn't want to marry Agnes. Then he could take over Wickfield's business and Uriah Heep would have to slither away.