Literally Dead Book Club discussion
This topic is about
They Never Learn
They Never Learn DISCUSSION
>
They Never Learn | chapter 45 - epilogue
Listen, I'm a simple gal. This had a feminist serial killer, a Sapphic romance, and a lot of fun twists-- that's a 5-star read for me. I absolutely devoured this in a couple days (while working, oops). The twists were well-executed in my opinion, as I had an inkling that Scarlett and Carly were in separate timelines/possibly the same person, but Fargo did a great job of trying to throw the reader off. I'm glad I wasn't 100% sure of that twist until the reveal, because it made for a fun time.
The Ending: I felt it was a very interesting and important choice to make Wes Scarlett's first kill. So many of her victims are one-sided and blatantly evil, but Wes is closer to the type of abusive shitheads I met in college. It felt like Layne Fargo was saying a big "FUCK YOU" to all the assholes on twitter who claim to be one of the 'nice' guys.
The Epilogue: I was rooting for Mina and Scarlett from the beginning, so I loved it. I did go back and forth on how realistic it would be for Mina to accept Scarlett and her murderous hobby, but honestly I buy it (because it's fiction and also because I love Scarlett and hate horrible men).
It is just so healing to read about women physically conquering evil abusive men (although I do understand that any person of any gender can be an abuser). Do I condone serial killing in real life? No.... But do I celebrate women brutally murdering rapists in the various bits of media I consume? Hell yes!!
In conclusion, I will be picking up anything Fargo writes from now on.
I really enjoyed it. I figured out pretty early on there was only 1 MC and I really liked to see how much different Scarlett was in the present. Who doesn’t love a strong, brilliant female character? She grew up to be a badass that looks out for other women. I wish this happened more in real life (not the murder obviously, but actually doing something when abuse happens). The only issue I had was Scarlett’s relationship with Jasper because it was hypocritical to be honest. You can’t go killing predators and professors that take advantage of women when you are sleeping with a grad student under your supervision...even if he was a creep. But, without him I feel like she would have ended up in jail and wouldn’t have gone off to England with her new love, so I’ll forgive that.
Nope, nope, nope. Just not for me. Revenge books are just irritating. It's juvenile to me. Also, the book was very triggering for me so I just had to put it down. I can't say whether it is good or bad or well written or not. All I can say is that it definitely isn't for me!
I really enjoyed this!The MC kind of reminded me of Annalise Keating from the TV show How To Get Away With Murder. Annalise was also queer, and while she never actually ended up murdering anyone, she protected people who did. Even though isn't classified as "dark academia", I loved how the plot's setting was centered within an academic institution.
The twists were really good! I did call the connection between the two POVs around halfway in. I fully expected Wes to be the one "good" guy but I actually liked how the author used him as the personification of "not all men", or men who think they're entitled because they are somewhat decent.
I thought the ending was satisfying because it was exactly what I wanted to happen.
Anyway, the moral of the story is: men are trash.
That is all.
I am very happy to say, that it really was a 5 star read for me as predicted. I was not completely wrong with my predictions from the second third.
Jasper was an even worse person than expected and the diary did play a part in the story, bur they were not connected.
I also thought, that something bad must happen between Carly and Wes. I was right even though I never expected him to be such an .... in the end.
I really enjoyed this read and I will definitly pick up other books by this author :)
I really enjoyed it. I had a inkling that there was on MC but the author did a good job of keeping us guessing. I think the two points of view helped us to see how Carly became Scarlett. I liked that Scarlett's first kill was Wes because unlike the others, who were one-sided and evil, he was more realistic. A personification of not all men, a guy who just because he was a little decent thought he could get away with it.
I really enjoyed this! The twists and the turns were amazing! I didn't predicted that Carly and Scarlett were the same person! Scarlett was such a fun point of view. I liked being in the head of a serial killer. I really liked the fact that Carly's first kill is Wes. At first, he seemed like a "good guy" but really is like all the rest : waiting for something that HE thinks is due to him. This is was a well executed feminist thriller! WOW! All I can say is : ALL MEN ARE TRASH!!
I devoured this & immediately went to read her other novel.
hi friends! i saw another commenter say that they found this story kind of juvenile, and that is truly my only gripe here. I enjoyed the characters, fast (and i mean FAST) pace of this book, and (lukewarm) discussion the seriousness of college SA; however, i could not help but be bogged down by the young-adult-esque nature of this one. if it had been grittier (i was hoping the main character, who is an objectively bad person, would be punished for her behavior in some way? maybe even killed by her own obsession at the end in a Promising Young Woman twist?), i really think i would have enjoyed the story more. that being said, it was thrilling & it was gay, and for that, i respect it.
Hi!! I'm feeling as though I read a different book! I see so many who liked this! Am I the only one who didn't enjoy it? I personally think the ending was to happy and too perfect. I'm all up for the main character to win out in the end, even a serial killer. Howerver, this just seemed like the perfect ending for Scarlet. It was unrealistic. Maybe I shouldn't be looking for realistic?This book potrayed ALL men as scumbags (with the exception of Drew). Come on...Isn't there one decent man out there??
I also felt it was a bit predictable. I was suprised about Carly being Scarlet, but once that was revealed, i could see where the book was headed. I guessed right when it came to Wes & Jasper.
This was a 2 star for me :(
1. I loved this book. I enjoyed devouring it. It is easily one of my favorite thrillers I’ve read. A lot of them get a little too weird for me.2. I loved that this book’s MC is queer. I cannot wait for my sister to read it as well, since she is married to a woman, I really want her thoughts on it.
3. Really have nothing to add to others’ thoughts other than I didn’t think Carly and Scarlett were the same person and I love that the plot twist came in the middle of the book and the ending was not rushed at all.
So I listened to this all in one day (before the discussion so this is my first post). I was in the car when the Carly/Scarlett twist was revealed and I was SCREAMING that I knew it and was happy. I thought it was really fun and I am happy with the ending
This was a 5 star read for me! I really liked the tone, the twists and the main character. I have nothing bad to say about this book except that maybe I wish there was at least one decent male character that would show that not every man is a rapist but I can understand why the author chose to do it the way she did.
I loved this book!! I also devoured it within 24 hours. At first, I couldn’t figure out how Carly and Scarlett were connected - I thought maybe that something would happen to Carly and Scarlett would murder the person who hurt Carly. But then I did end up figuring out that they were the same person shortly before the reveal. But it didn’t phase me one bit - only made the story more interesting! This was a 5/5 for me!
I really loved this. It was fast-paced and easy to get through. Very satisfying as well.
This was ultimately a 3.5 read for me — good pacing and enjoyable during, but I found the story a little generic beyond the initial premise.I can barely remember the plot after just a few days of finishing; the story touches on a lot of interesting subject matters (teacher/student dynamic, victim blaming, sexuality), but they all feel a bit one note and on the surface.
Also would've like to see Scarlett being a real badass, experienced killer for a bit more, than just witnessing her constantly fumbles at the most basic murder 101 awareness (like leaving the book out in plain sight).
This is still a fun read, just wish it had been more unique and digging deeper.
Tbh I didn’t enjoy this book as much as I wanted. It was OK. I liked the fast pace of it, as many of you have pointed out. The “Carly is Scarlett” reveal was fun and I was just waiting for SOMETHING to happen.. I just felt it was lacking in depth I suppose *as Justin pointed out*.. very surface level. Overall, I liked the premise but I wish it would have been more compelling than I found it, especially with the touchy subjects at hand.
This book was just kind of meh for me. I like a revenge plot, but this one felt kind of cliché to me. Like others have mentioned, it’s pretty surface level and I struggle to connect Carly with Scarlett. I know they’re the same person, and they’re supposed to seem way different, but it I didn’t really buy it. If you like themes like this, just go watch Promising Young Woman, which was much better in my opinion.
teetered between 3 and 4 stars for me, so I gave it a 3.5. I'm on the same page as the last few posts. Entertainment value was there, but was very surface level. All in all was a good, entertaining read, and definitely opened up my eyes a little more to what actually can and does happen to young women in college life and otherwise.
did anybody else absolutely hate the ending??? it felt SO ridiculous to me, but i also wasn't really loving the story to begin with so maybe that's just me.
It ended a quite abruptly. WHABAM! The End. LOL
what I really enjoyed about this book, were the Carly chapters. Scarlett just ended up getting a little boring for me. I wish the author would have expanded a little more on Carly, and dived into her brain a little more. Carly killing Wes at the end had me a little dumbfounded as well....Really?? After all that, you're going to kill Wes????
WOW! I really lived this book. This is 5 stars for me. I am happy to add this to my list of loved books. It wasn’t like anything I had read before. Amazing!
I always see the bad woman being punished at the end, so I was glad to see that this one got away. Really liked the pace, the characters, the twists and Fargo's writing. 5 stars for me.
Liked the fast pacing of the book, not a fan of the man hating troupe. Carly’s character was difficult to read at times, she was in my opinion, annoying. Preferred Scarlet’s chapters, I was not sold on Mina’s quick forgiveness after learning the truth about Scarlet but glad she stuck by her at the end. Liked the epilogue reveal, I didn’t see it coming, overall a 4 star read for me
Originally I was going to read this book on my kindle but was not feeling it and nearly didn't finish. I picked up the audiobook and am so glad I did.I really enjoyed the book but I did have a problem with Mina's quick forgiveness of Scarlet's actions. To me, the book felt somewhat realistic up until that part. I could totally see a serial killer targeting men who committed heinous crimes against women. But Mina's acceptance of it like it was an everyday occurrence ruined it for me.
I totally didn't see the Scarlet/Carly thing coming. I totally thought the two of them would've joined together and Scarlet would teach Carly the "craft/skill". I liked the same person reveal a lot better than what I had in mind.
Overall it was a 4 star read for me.
I almost never call the twists in a book, so I was very excited when it turned out I was right!That aside, I had a great time with this book! I loved the fast pace, I loved the characters, I loved hating the men, I loved how much she loved killing.
I did expect her to be punished in some way and might have preferred that, but I'm not at all mad that she wasn't.
This was a 4.5 or 5 star for me!
I really enjoyed this book. It was fast paced, with interesting plot twists and a badass main character. My only objection is that I found it a little generic. I would prefer it if Wes had remained the "good guy" untill the end because -come on- not all men are trush. Besides that, I had a great time so I gave it 4 stars.
OK- so this wasn't for everyone. It was definitely for me, though. I haven't 5-starred a thriller in a very, very long time. I read this in two sittings, under 24 hours. This was gripping and twisty and fun as hell.To me, this wasn't a revenge plot. This was a girl with a taste for blood that was pushed too far. Killing was her addiction and she chose disgusting excuses for human beings to kill so that she was at least doing the world a favor.
This had Dexter vibes all over it and Dexter Morgan is my fucking hero.
Best book we've read in this group so far (imo) and definitely the best thriller ive read in at least a year or more. Loved it.
I loved this one! Easy 5 ⭐️- wow! I somehow didn’t that Carly/Scarlett twist coming and I loooved it! I did guess the Wes/Jasper twists but that didn’t keep me from enjoying the ride at all - I loved where this went. I went back and forth between wanting Scarlett to be caught (even though I LOVE her) and wanting her to get away with it, but ultimately I do like the ending. I just thought Scarlett was so perfectly written and I would’ve followed her anywhere. The setting of a small college campus was also so appropriate for this kind of story but also gave a slight dark academia feeling - which I love so much. I just thoroughly enjoyed this!
I really enjoyed this read! It gave me How To Get Away With Murder vibes.
So far fetched, but so good.The way the author combined the real life campus rape culture with a serial killer was actually such a refreshing narrative.
I love that the author’s profile is that she writes thrillers about angry women.
I absolutely called Wes being her first kill awhile back (during their car scene and the way he was there), but was unsure how it would happen. I loved that it was after she considered killing Bash. What a twist.
I enjoyed how the author wrapped up Jasper and Mina. I wrote in the past section, go Mina for dodging a bullet, and then boom - she took it straight in the gut.
Morally, I don’t know how I feel about the ending, but for this book, I’m okay with it. I personally wish our justice system was different so we didn’t have this grey area of judging right and wrong.
This one is a five star for me. I’m so happy I got a chance to suck this book in.
So many people called the Scarly twist! I didn’t see it coming at all LOL
“So many people called the Scarly twist! I didn’t see it coming at all LOL”I didn’t see it coming at all either. That one got me.
I really enjoyed the book and I was constantly thinking about it but was I the only one who predicted all the twists?
I'm normally not good at predicting plots but this one did not surprise me. Maybe because I was constantly thinking about it I guess. Still enjoyed the story tho :)
Lol you’re good! It was all a surprise to me 🙄😂
Same for me, Baubie. Lend us some of your skills, Puck.
I’m settling on 4 stars for this one. Really loved the short chapters and how fast paced the story was; there was never a point where I felt bored. I think everything wrapped up nicely in the end, and I’m glad that Scarlett and Mina ended up together. I did see all the big reveals coming, (Carly being Scarlett, Jasper and Wes being villains), but that didn’t really take away from my enjoyment of the story. This is definitely my favourite that we’ve read for the book club so far, and I’m excited for the live show!
Side note- will anyone else be adding her debut novel, Temper, to their TBRs now?!
Vanessa wrote: "I really enjoyed this!The MC kind of reminded me of Annalise Keating from the TV show How To Get Away With Murder. Annalise was also queer, and while she never actually ended up murdering anyone,..."
You are so right! She is like Annalise (who I also love)
Note to self: uncheck "add to my update feed" so I don't spoil people.Characters 9:
Almost perfect - well developed, great side characters, love the diversity. The one thing I wanted was a little more backstory on Mina. She accepted Scarlet and loved her even though she's a sociopath and I need to know how Mina came to be the kind of person who could do that.
Atmosphere 10
The setting at a university was perfect. Descriptions, mood, tone...perfection.
Writing Style 10
High quality, high readability, love her style.
Plot 9
Loved the fast pace. Beginning 10 Middle 9 End 8
Intrigue 10
Logic 9
Like I mentioned, I needed to know more about Mina in order to believe her choice to love Scarlet and even help her murder men.
Enjoyment 10
Average 9.6
★★★★★
One of the best books I read this year, the best Mystery Thriller I've ever read.
The Annalise comparison is really good! Definitely agree!
i finally read a book club pick in time! i stumbled upon a hardcover copy at my local thrift store on may 28th for $5 and i came home and read it in 2 days! i loved it! 4.5 stars!! i didn’t guess the scarly twist at all and i audibly gasped LMAO i loved it. i loved how gay it was and that kill men energy was EVERYTHING. so excited for the live show.
I ended up liking this a little bit less than I expected, but it was still an entertaining read. I liked Carly’s chapters more, because Scarlett was a very one-dimensional character in my opinion. Her behaviour is also very exaggerated.
These ‘revenge stories’ are usually a hit or miss with me... I would have rated this book higher if the ending were different and if I wasn’t able to predict the ‘alliance’ between the three women near the end.
I’m looking forward to the discussion! :)
I finished this last night and I'm so glad I was able to before the live show, because this just might be my favorite pick of the book club so far! I'm giving it 5 stars! Very pleasantly surprised. I think the live show for this one will be a fun one (I mean, they all are fun, but you know what I'm getting at haha)
I did enjoy this book, but it was a bit surface level for some of the plot points. I was a bit wrong about Wes, though he did turn out to be a shit as well. And again echoing others’ comments,the end was not the best. I mean, sure, these guys were all jerks and deserved punishment - I just couldn’t see Mina being okay with all of it. Maybe if her story was defined more? And the only guys in the story that aren’t asses are gay? That doesn’t seem right. But I guess darkness attracts darkness so Scarly attracted all of the bad guys around her. And I agree about her relationship with Jasper seeming to be a bit hypocritical. Even if he’s a willing partner (and it turns out a total ass), is it okay that she had a relationship with a student? 3-1/2 ⭐️ out of 5
I am a sucker for "revenge" thrillers and I think this might be the best one I have read. I thought pretty early on that the two perspectives were the same character, but even when this was revealed to be the case, I still really liked the way it was written! I ended up giving this 4.75 stars!
Full thoughts, spoilers and all- go!