Ersatz TLS discussion
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What Are We Reading? 26 April 2021
FranHunny wrote: "For all of you, who like myself, fall into longer phases of not reading: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst... "
Yes, and 600+ comments in a morning, which shows that TLS satisfied a thirst.
Yes, and 600+ comments in a morning, which shows that TLS satisfied a thirst.


During a skirmish with the FLN, the character of Col Raspeguy is re-introduced (heavily based on the real life French paratroop legend Marcel Bigeard), his skill in never under-estimating his enemy and thinking like they do, was a key part in the french elite forces approach to a losing war.
Larteguy hints at the splits in the military, on generational and politiclal lines, in simple terms the military top brass as "lost causers" and the elite forces officers who advocated a counter insurgency role for the army
De Gaulle is one of many major military personalities at play, but distant, seen as a "brass hat", from another army, another history.
All the group who were POW's in The Centurions after the french defeat in Indochina re-emerge, having learnt similar lessons of how defeat in Indochina came about and how they might try and apply it in Algeria.
We all know how it ended, with another French disaster and the exodus of 900,000 white settlers.

Thanks for the reminder about Ted Chiang - whenever I hear a description of one of his stories, it sounds interesting, but I never follow up. I see my local library has two of his collections, so I hope to get to him in the near future.

Thanks for the reminder about Ted Chiang - whenever I hear a description of one of his stories, it sounds interesting, but I never ..."
Look forward to hearing your reaction if you do try it. It's been a few years since I read it, so my memory could be a little off, but I thought all the stories in that first collection were at the very least interesting. Haven't found a copy of his second book yet.
Oh, and on the subject of English-language philosophical novelists, another name that comes to mind is Iris Murdoch.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst......"
Me too.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst......"
1100 comments now. But I doubt that the Guardian gives a flying flamingo.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst......"
It looks like the paper have happily cast TLS into the waste basket, as we all discussed it didnt need to be removed and has been an irritation for us all. I hope i may be proved wrong but i fear not.
I rarely comment on the Guardian anymore since TLS died, i just dont feel engaged with all the censorship and flaming, though the book section was less guilty of this

Some body here isnt keen on her writing, who was that?
On the DDR topic i recommend Dance by the Canal by Kerstin Hersel, written in 1994

just dont feel engaged with all the censorship and flaming, though the book section was less guilty of this
That is one thing we two always agree on!

Murdoch is the Anglophone novelist I see mentioned most often as “philosophical”, and the only one I know of who rates the description “novelist and philosopher”. Are there others?
I’ve only read one of her novels, A Severed Head, which I would not have described as “philosophical”. Wikipedia quotes William Sutcliffe describing it as having “less philosophising and more shagging than Murdoch's other books”.

Some body here isnt keen on her writing, who was that?
That was/is me.
But, iirc, machenbach and shelflife really liked her.

just dont feel engaged with all the censorship and flaming, though the book section was less guilty of this
That is one thing we two always agree on!"
the thing with flamers is if i could eyeball them and thrash it out, i'm cool but on the guardian you are just nailed as a comment and then have to read the pondlife opinions that dribble forth

Some body here isnt keen on her writing, who was that?
That was/is me.
But, iir..."
yo G, what didnt you like about her?
I have ordered "Visitation", she is a very interesting German writer, i like to see german literature getting the acclaim she has and i must explore the works of her grandmother


Murdoch is the Anglophone novelist I see mentioned most often as “philosophical”, and the only one I know of who rates the description “novelist and philosopher”. Are there others?"
None that come to mind, but I almost think there must be someone I've forgotten or never knew about. Bertrand Russell did try his hand at fiction, but in the short story form. I haven't read them yet, though I have two collections here, Nightmares of Eminent Persons and Other Stories, and Satan in the Suburbs and Other Stories.
American David Markson, though not a trained philosopher himself as far as I know, did write Wittgenstein's Mistress, which is very much concerned with that philosopher's ideas about language.
And that reminds me of another one that deals thematically with the idea of language - from memory, in a more post-modern way: Don DeLillo's The Names. I remember meaning to ask Machenbach what he thought of it, assuming he's read it, but don't think I ever got around to mentioning it.

I have finished Their Eyes Were Watching God, which was one of Justine's choices. It is a remarkable read.
Let me say at the outset that I don't see it as a feminist book- it is a survivors tale and a romance. Janie is sitting on her porch telling the story of her three marriages to her friend.
The first man was much older than her and just wanted her as a workhorse, the second sujected her to what we call now coercive control and the third one, Teacake, the one she truly loved and whom she left to go to Florida "On the Muck" with, stole all her money to throw a big party and gamble with- that was early on in the relationship.His explanation for doing that was because HE wanted to be the bread winner.Later on in the story he beat her to prove a point to a woman he disliked: "Ah didn't whip Janie 'cos she done nothin' ah just wanted to show them Thompsons who's boss". The fact that Janie just stood there and took it made her a good woman in his cronies' eyes, it was important that she was marked to show that she was HIS.(Telling that the book wasn't banned because of violence towards women but because some passages wdre seen as erotic)
Had it not been an e- book it would have been thrown at the wall after reading that little episode...
Teacake met a rather grisly end and Janie returned to Eatonville, her life her own at last.
The final paragraph is equal to any of the great romantic novels you care to name.
I was very interested in Eatonville which was a real place and a self governing black community.
A hurricane and it's aftermath is vividly described - the passage from which the title is taken comes from that section of the tale.
I had no problem with the vernacular it was written in but I gather that it is a stumbling block for some readers.
Time for some fun with Tristram Shandy now, It's great to be back!

Lovely to hear from you again and to know your health problems are being sorted. B****y computers, wonderful when they are working. Fortunately I also have an IT professional who has come to my rescue twice in the last month. Typing this on my phone which means it looks like some dialogue from the policeman in 'Allo, 'Allo before I correct it!

Do you read much science fiction? The kind of big quest..."
I haven't read that CC, but I remember Philip K. Dick's Second Variety, A killer robot in the form of a boy and his teddy bear ..
How are you btw?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst......"
Why can't we have a open thread like the one that is ongoing for Line of Duty since the tragic loss of the reviewer, Sarah?
A question for Hushpuppy (although I think Glad Hush has a nice ring to it): is there any news from The Guardian about what's going on at the Books section? Is it time to give up hoping that TLS will be brought back in one way or another?

Hello MsC - indeed, got some news from Sian about 2 weeks ago. Things are slowly settling down at The G now, so we should have a clearer picture real soon one way or another (it rests on one thing in particular). I'll probably ask again the Head of Membership in a couple of weeks or so, to see if they have that update for us or not. So no, don't give up just yet!

Very glad you are back with us, and anaemia is being sorted. From your description of 'Their eyes were watching god', I think I too would have been very much inclined to throw it across the room. There is, I think, some kind of psychological limit, for the ordinary reader, as to describing just how awful, and relentless, the stuff of the past might be. I believe we also should, as well as acknowledging the horrors of the past, also have an inkling of a message of hope in the mix as well.
This should enable us to move on, to the kind of stuff where there is also some hope into the future as well. As Leonard Cohen said "there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in". We need, to me, the chink of light, to counter the darkness, wherever it happens to be coming from...
Hushpuppy wrote: "Things are slowly settling down at The G now, so we should have a clearer picture real soon one way or another ...."
Thanks, Hushpuppy. (I loved that film, by the way.) Delighted to hear that we may still be in with a shout.
Thanks, Hushpuppy. (I loved that film, by the way.) Delighted to hear that we may still be in with a shout.

May I say, you have excellent taste 😊. (For tv and films in general, NOT for Austen. Mppphhh.)


Exactly. I haven't read her for many years, but [book:The Heart of the ..."
And just how many have you set aside for re-read? (Sorry, couldn't resist - my excuse is I am from the East Coast!)

When I was a child, I would frequently be overcome by a feeling of something wonderful just around the corner. It could not be grasped or defined, only experienced. This feeling was triggered by many things: red peony shoots coming up through black soil in spring, certain cloud formations, the quality of light on a clear winter morning. These things still haunt me and even now, I cannot tell you what they mean, though I am always trying to recapture the feeling.
As a teenager, I read avidly the Victorian fairy stories of Jean Ingelow, Mary de Morgan, and especially George Macdonald. Macdonald’s “Phantastes” contains several quotes from the German Romantic poet Novalis, Freiherr Friedrich von Hardenburg. They have as mysterious a quality as “Phantastes” or Macdonald's other masterpiece “The Golden Key”. This thread runs through Victorian literature and finds its culmination in JRR Tolkien’s “Smith of Wootton Major”, with its unsatisfied yearning for Faëry. We can enter but we may not stay…. The Blue Flower is a symbol Novalis uses in his unfinished novel “Heinrich von Ofterdingen”. Soon after this period, attempting to better understand myself, I read Jung, the Complete Works, and I still find Jungian analysis valuable. I translated Novalis’ poetry from French to English.
The Blue Flower is a novel about Novalis and his love for Sophie von Kühn. Written in 55 short chapters it creates a vivid picture of life in late 18th century Saxony. Novalis is a budding young genius filled with the excitement of intellectual discovery and if anything, a little odd, though loved by all. His father-The Father in the German style-the book is replete with Germanismus-has designed that he follow a career as an Inspector of salt mines and he dutifully trains for this while at the same time speculating intensely about life. He sees The Blue Flower in a dream, and he experiences a coup-de-foudre on first meeting Sophie von Kühn, a completely uninteresting 13-year-old girl, also living in a large family in Saxony. She inexplicably becomes his muse, and the entire thing baffles his family. I don’t read much fiction and was feeling trepidation about reading this, since I have very definite thoughts about Novalis, but you get sucked in immediately into this story about Fritz and Sophie.
The Blue Flower is never explained. It is best understood using the language of Jung. Sophie dies young of TB aged 15, and Novalis himself died aged only 28, also of TB, in 1801. All their brothers and sisters, so vividly pictured in the novel, are dead of TB by 1810 and one is left with a great sense of the sadness of lost potential. Novalis published poetry, wrote two unfinished novels, and worked on other projects. The German Romantics are perhaps best appreciated in one’s twenties, when I first met them, but one is left wondering whether things might have been different had Novalis lived longer. Germany took the other path.
“Our life is no dream: but it ought to become one and perhaps will”. Novalis

Do you read much science fiction? The kind..."
Greetings, Greenfairy, how nice to hear from you again. Anaemia, that’s when they fill you up with iron tablets which bung everything up so then you get laxatives......I am remembering ...
Lovely sunny morning here but very cold and frosty. Several of my shrubs have curled up in disgust, particularly the hydrangeas and the pink magnolia turned brown. The tulips all bow their heads to the frost but seem to perk up straight again , stand to attention, when the sun comes through.
MrC has started playing bowls outdoors again after missing it for a year so signs of normality are returning. I’m winding down to my next injection in a couple of weeks time so reading is slow with dancing print. Light book at present with Lindsey Davis’ latest Flavia Albia book ❤️Comedy of Terrors
Oops how did that heart get there?
Hushpuppy wrote: "May I say, you have excellent taste 😊. (For tv and films in general, NOT for Austen. Mppphhh.) ..."
Ha! I've just finished The Queen's Gambit and am now without any TV to watch.
Ha! I've just finished The Queen's Gambit and am now without any TV to watch.

Some body here isnt keen on her writing, who was that?
That was/i..."
I've read Go, Went, Gone which I didn't like, But with all the hype she got I decided to give her another try with Visitation, which I abandoned at 80%.
Both belong into my personal sub-genre "German Miserabilism": weighty, didactic, dreary.
I found her characters flat and lifeless. Couldn't feel anything for any of them.
She writes well, if a tad too contrived and pretentious for my liking. Style beats substance.
Mind you, I'm part of a very small minority of dissenters, almost everybody seems to think she is the bee's knees.

Some body here isnt keen on her writing, who was ..."
The NYRB review picked up the emotionless, slightly mannered style, the review wasnt entirely favourable. I will be reading Visitation after i finish my latest "modern" novel and will report back

When red-haired girls scamper like roses
over the rain-green grass;
and the sun drips honey.

Two other italian colonial novelw are:
The Conscript (a rare Eritrean novel based on the Eritreans who served in the Italian conquest of Libya)
A Time To Kill By Ennio Flaiano, a novel of Italian Ethiopia
plus i just found Albert Cossery too....the wonders of google

Huh, I've never heard of Spina, but Flaiano is well thought of here in Italy. In general, there is no honest assesment of Italy's role as a colonialist power. Discussion is limited to "Oh, sure, but nowhere near as much as France and Britain" which, although true is the general whataboutism you can expect when asking introspective questions here in Italy. Likewise, WWII partigiani are an enormous source of literature, but few confront the popular support of fascism (Fallaci and Pavese are notable exceptions).
But the impact of Italian expansionism is not really being honestly assessed (is it in Britain though? I've met few Britains that are willing to engage on how much of their economy came from slavery or slavery-lite). There is a very typical Italian nursery rhyme that is the local version of Eeny Meeny Miney Moe and has the line:
Ambaradam chi chi co co
And few Italians have any recognizance that Amba Aradam was a "battle" that slaughtered civilians in Ethiopia.

I also see to recall that Ismail Kadare had a novel taht dealt with the Italian subjugation of Albania

I also see to recall that Ismail Kadare had a novel taht dealt with the Italian subjugation of Albania"
Yes Paul, its in my towering pile, thanks for reminding me, you sent me searching for it...!
i would also suggest browsing this link, the publishers of the Spina novel on Italian libya:
https://darfpublishers.co.uk/product-...
had never heard of them before, some great books here

Huh, I've never heard of Spina, but Flaiano is well thought of here ..."
i suppose the colonial era was hardly as "glorious" as the british or to a lesser extent the French. I use that word with heavy sarcasm but in a way, myths and national legends from the British Empire give it a glossy finish and a feeling of victory more than the strange hotchpotch of Italian "possessions"
Of course italians populated a lot of North Africa under French control, the italian population in Tunisia was substantial up till the 1950s and among the Pieds Noirs in Algeria,about 15% were Italian ethnicity.

this redhead likes it..lol!

Yours aren't the only ones. For the first time two of mine have been hit by two bad frosts a couple of weeks ago. I shall have to wait until it is safe to cut them back to live buds and hope for at least some flowers this year.

In his 1850s essays on visiting England English Traits he is full of enthusiasm for the healthy, blonde, fair english race. He extols their virtues and strengths, while admitting in the working quarters there was violence and savagery.
Some of it feels like satire, as if a racist american from West Virginia rolled up in a small Suffolk town in 2021 and celebrated its whiteness. Sadly Emerson, a great thinker, is not up to any toomfoolery here and it is jarring how dated associating being English is with any form of "greatness".
I dont decry biological scientific race theory when based on adjustment to environment but i am less keen on what is superior or inferior in a race, This isnt a woke strain in me either, i just feel that racial make up is much more interesting when applied to the environment, than to the excellence or poverty of the species defined. (Adaption to climate fascinates, skin colour as an advantage in different climes, hair density to combat the strong sun...etc)
For 75% of my life i have been a proud englishman, since brexit much much less so. I have read extensively on the supposed racial origins of the English race with interest but am still ambiguous on whether any real "excellence" can be applied to various northern tribes coming together on a small island off mainland europe many hundred years ago.
It is interesting that Jefferson in 1785 seems to see France as a far greater nation and England in decline, while Emerson 70 years later barely refers to France and extols England as the great nation, though he does hint it may be in decline and that its American offspring will take up the baton

He finds he has to diversify to keep profits up to build Monticello, so he goes in for nail making as there is not enough profit in the traditional plantation produce. He raises the entire amount of the 'build' with a bond from the 'Dutch' financial market, with the 200+ slaves as the collateral for the loan.
He was the French ambassador for a while. So not surprising that he had good French relations. Its interesting that Sally Hemmings, his 'slave girl' lover, after his wife died, was on the families staff in France, and that as slavery was banned then in France, she could have just walked out of the embassy and gained her freedom. I guess not speaking French was a big disincentive though. It appears that she was probably three quarters white, which is astounding to me. he didn't even give her her freedom in his will when he died. It took his 'legitimate' white daughter to do that. Of all the children they had together only one chose to remain with the 'black' status, all the rest settled far away and 'passed' for white. there is a lovely bit of film where many of Jeffersons descendants meet up, from both branches of the family, and seem to really get on and like each other.
Also one of his french friends left him his fortune in his will, so that he could help by using the money to help to emancipate American slaves in general. And guess what.... Jefferson discovered that he had some more pressing needs for the money somehow. The shocking thing to me is that this man considered himself an 'Epicurean', which was the discovery that sent me down this rabbit hole in the first place!...https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...

yes,i agree. i just profoundly believe that any person (black, white, asian etc), SHOULD HAVE an equal chance with an equal opportunity
If i see a black person, i'm seeing the evolution of nature in the human species to deal with a hot climate and scorching sun (strong skin, thick hair, small nose) not a beauty or intelligence contest. Race in this context is all about adaption to climate and situation....
(how sad with covid that we find BAME people lacking in vitamin D as their skin absorbs less of the vitamin and living in the UK, their chance of the intense sunlight needed is pretty unlikely, removed from climates they were adapted to into ones they werent, likewise if i lived in australia with wall to wall sun, my chances as fairskinned redhead of getting skin cancer would be pretty bad, even if i tan)
although science/meds can help us adapt

coincidentally i'm reading about the effect of frost on his Monticello hickory trees in Jeffersons "Notes on The State of Virginia"

yes,i agree. i just profoundly believe that any person (black, white, asian etc), has an equal chance with an equal opportunity
On what planet?

yes,i agree. i just profoundly believe that any person (black, white, asia..."
Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Superiority or inferiority possibly/probably has more to do with opportunity than race?"
yes,i agree. i just profoundly believe that any person (black, white, asia..."
I think AB possibly missed out the 'should have' bit....

yes,i agree. i just profoundly believe that any person (blac..."
correct....lol, thanks tam


Its a set of black and white images from Moravia and Slovakia during the Czech communist years, when the authorities saw the Roma people as inferior and applied many anti-Roma measures
The images of these proud people are beautiful, faces stare out from small shacks and huts, religious iconography is a feature of interiors.
A people on the edge of a deeply divided experiment in communism which failed
Bill wrote: "Murdoch is the Anglophone novelist I see mentioned most often as “philosophical”, and the only one I know of who rates the description “novelist and philosopher”. Are there others?..."
Has anyone mentioned Aldous Huxley?
I would like to put Robertson Davies on the list, but I don't know if anyone would agree with me.
Has anyone mentioned Aldous Huxley?
I would like to put Robertson Davies on the list, but I don't know if anyone would agree with me.
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Books mentioned in this topic
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Authors mentioned in this topic
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Artem Chekh (other topics)
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Left over from last week's birthday list - Shakespeare and His Stuff
..."
National means yes, limited to your nation. In Germany everyday is Bretzn-Tag - if you so want … ;)