Chapters 1 & 2

[Kerstin]

Joseph wrote: "We're disconnected from our identity because we don't have this exposure to foundational thought. We learn history as facts, we don't have a philosophical conversation with the people who helped to shape the beliefs that we take for granted.

A secular example of this is in American schooling."

I think this is a very important point. The loss of reading and engaging with the classics is incalculable. And it looks like for the time being this is going to continue unless we as individuals make sure that in our families our children and grandchildren get exposed to them. It would be a first step in the recovery.

Here is an opinion piece from the Washington Post reacting to Howard University's closing of their classics department written by Cornel West and Jeremy Tate. If people like Cornel West raise their voices in defense of Western Culture, it is worth listening to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...

[Patrick]

Gerri wrote: "I've returned to the Archbishop to help me figure out my own disconnect between romanticizing the past and cringing about the present.

Many commenters made important points about society past/pre..."

I was born in the late 1980s. I grew up in a conservative home, where my parents listened to Rush Limbaugh almost every day. Growing up in such an environment, the 1950s are inadvertently idealized as the ultimate decade of the United States: a common sense of duty, shared sacrifices, the draft, the white picket fence, the nuclear family, a united nation under God, etc.

However, after moving out of my home for college, I came to realize this was a created ideology of the past. It's infuriating for me to hear millennials criticize boomers and vice versa, as if one generation is to blame for all or most of the problems of the nation. Pope Francis's statements in "Evangelii Gaudium" express my thoughts articulately: each age is different but no one is more sinful than the others. Sins change, but the heart and soul of man remains the same if there is no repentance.

[Manny]

Joseph wrote: "IThis ties in with Gerri's comment at 49 above. Even though I was baptized a Catholic as an infant, I grew up mostly attending a Protestant church where my mother had grown up. My senior year in high school, I read The Divine Comedy for the first time and came to the seemingly obvious realization that Christian history begins before 1517. After that, I began reading Patristic authors like they were going out of style (which they kind of are) and so tapped into this wealth of memory which I had barely brushed against in school. And I think that type of thing is really what Archbishop Chaput is trying to point to. We're disconnected from our identity because we don't have this exposure to foundational thought. We learn history as facts, we don't have a philosophical conversation with the people who helped to shape the beliefs that we take for granted."

You made a great case as to why the Church Fathers should be a part of every catechesis.

The other thing that crossed my mind when you mentioned the classics is that we're so obsessed with multi culturalism that we have no time for our primary culture. They don't even read Shakespeare any more.

[Gerri]

Peej wrote: "Pope Francis's statements in "Evangelii Gaudium" express my thoughts articulately: each age is different but no one is more sinful than the others. Sins change, but the heart and soul of man remains the same if there is no repentance"

Peej, you make such an important point. I wish more people would be open to the words of our Holy Father. It would help people in general stop glorifying particular causes that they enshrine based on carefully gleaned and filtered elements.

And an earlier comment from Joseph reminded me of how, in the 1980s, I took a newspaper quiz to see how I'd fare on a 1930s eighth-grade test. I did rather poorly. But, what's important in education also changes with the times. The typical student today is better served by learning coding language instead of learning Latin or Greek.

[Manny]

That is an important Peej. I've tried to say similar, that all times have sin in the world. Whether the sins of one era are greater than another is hard to assess. I can imagine some extreme eras being particularly evil. But for the most part one should assume that evils are always abounding and that grace is always offered.

I think there is something disconcerting from what stems from the Enlightenment and stretches to today, where the sacred has been removed from the culture and our roots are being deconstructed and rejected. This is modernity.

[Irene]

At the same time that atheism is on the rise, so is religious fundamentalism in almost every religion. I wonder what that says. On one hand, we are removing the sacred from our culture. On the other hand , we are clinging to the most radical forms of religion.

[Patrick]

Irene wrote: "At the same time that atheism is on the rise, so is religious fundamentalism in almost every religion. I wonder what that says. On one hand, we are removing the sacred from our culture. On the othe..."

Irene, I'd say that this is a reaction against a Western, secular, consumerist, globalized culture. Radicals cling to that which makes them unique, and name the United States "The Great Satan."

They react in an extreme way, swinging the pendulum the opposite way of our dominant culture. Both need the 3rd way of Christ, His Church, and Catholic Social Teaching.

[booklady]

A quick hello and thank you to Manny for the warm invitation to join this wonderful group! Also, many MANY thanks for procuring this fascinating and insightful book by the Archbishop who I have long admired. I spent my morning reading time pouring over your Spirit-led discussion of just the first chapter of this book. I can see already there will be no way to keep up with you all and still have time to actually read this book. By way of introduction, I am a Secular (third order) Carmelite. We are strongly encouraged (required?!) to spend 30 minutes each day in Spiritual reading as well as another 30 minutes (at least) in silent prayer, plus Morning and Evening Prayer of the Divine Office. Daily Mass and Rosary are also strongly encouraged! I would like to claim I am perfect in meeting these requirements, but then I would have something else to take to Confession. 😉

Nevertheless, I also know how easy – not to mention enjoyable! – it would be for me to join in your lively discussions, which is why I also know I cannot. As it is, I have to severely restrict my time on GRs, which is hard enough. Still, I thank you for a very enjoyable reading experience this morning and I promise to keep your group in my prayers. It is so good to know that this group is here and that you support each other so beautifully! You remind me very much of my own Carmelite Community as well as my Angel Sisters, under the guidance of Opus Angelorum Sanctorum. Of course, I am not the least bit surprised since Manny is one of your moderators! 👼 May the Holy Spirit continue to lead, guide and strengthen each of you in your reading, discussions and living out what you glean from this group so that you can be the Light of Christ in the world so in need of you! Peace, bl+

[Patrick]

booklady wrote: "A quick hello and thank you to Manny for the warm invitation to join this wonderful group! Also, many MANY thanks for procuring this fascinating and insightful book by the Archbishop who I have lon..."

Thank you very much for your prayers! God bless! I am humbled and blessed to know that you're reading these conversations and praying for us!

[Manny]

booklady wrote: "A quick hello and thank you to Manny for the warm invitation to join this wonderful group! Also, many MANY thanks for procuring this fascinating and insightful book by the Archbishop who I have lon..."

Thank you for stopping by booklady. I completely understand how your commitments prevent you from our discussion. Say a prayer for us and feel free to stop by any time you can.