Basil - Week 3

[Deborah, Moderator]

This week was the biggest segment in our schedule. Basil somehow arrives home, is ill,and delirious for quite some time. Both Basil and Mannion survive, although Mannionis permanently disfigured. Sherwin writes and pressures Basil during and after the time ofBasil’s illness.

Basil confesses to his father who disowns him. We learn of a connection between Basil’s father and Mannion’s. We now know the enemy who is waiting as stated in the beginning of this book. Margaret is receiving letters from Mannion.

Mrs. Sherwin is honest about Margaret and dies of her illness. Ralph, Basil’s brother, confronts Sherwin. Margaret has run away to be Mannion.

1. Basil raves during his illness. What do these dreams and ravings mean?

2. What influenced Collins to write the dream in the beginning of the book and the one mentioned above?

3. Has your opionion of any of the characters change? Details, please 😀

[Brian E]

Deborah wrote: "Has your opinion of any of the characters change? Details, please."

I have changed my opinion of Basil's brother Ralph, but then my previous opinion was based on Basil's hearsay evidence only and this is our first introduction to the actual person. He is not the useless self-centered wastrel I presumed him to be and instead appears to be a positive force in the book. His efforts in Basil's behalf shows him to be useful and considerate rather than self-centered.
Ralph's entrance also reaffirms a low opinion of Basil's own thought process. Basil's decision to not show or talk about Mannion's letter to Ralph, as it would be 'useless' is fairly ridiculous. He is allowing Ralph to act on his behalf. This is good as Basil needs help. But Basil's failure to disclose this info is like a client failing to reveal all the facts to his attorney, which generally sets up both the client and attorney for disaster. I gather Collins' has done this to set up more 'sensational' events, and I appreciate his largely successful efforts to craft an exciting plot. However, it also serves to make me feel unsympathetic toward Basil for any possible bad consequences of his continual poor decision-making.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Brian wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Has your opinion of any of the characters change? Details, please."

I have changed my opinion of Basil's brother Ralph, but then my previous opinion was based on Basil's hearsay ev..."

I found the non disclosure odd as well

[Robin P, Moderator]

Yes, Ralph seems to be the practical one in the family. The father is blinded by pride and Basil by emotion. Clara means well but has no power in that world. She doesn't even want to know any details.

I still don't understand what the scam was. Was it just for Margaret to get gifts and money for a year, then disappear with Mannion? Or did they think Basil's father would be forced to recognize the marriage and keep Basil in his will? It seems that Basil could easily get a divorce/annulment since the marriage was never consummated.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I think there’s more to come that will hopefully explain more. So far it looks like Mannion wanted to rise slightly by marrying Margaret especially since he easily manipulates her. Then by chance, Basil presents the opportunity for Mannion to get revenge on Basil’s family

[Detlef]

The visions Basil had in his delirium show him to be a pretty immature character. Previously he saw everything (or rather nothing) blinded by love. He refused to see the telltale signs of very problematic family interactions and deceit. He saw everything through rose-colored glasses. Now it’s the opposite, closer to the truth, but really without much reflection. Later he refuses to show Mannion‘s letter to his brother. Foolish and immature idea. Misplaced honor, trying to shield his family? Whatever it is, it does not endear the reader to his character.
My opinion of Ralph changed quite a bit. I agree with Brian’s assessment. So far we really had only secondhand knowledge of his misconduct. I wonder how much the strict upbringing by his father had to do with his behavior. Both the brothers were suffering under their strict father and missing their mother. Ralph probably was deep down a decent character all along, but he tried to escape the family tyrant in his own way. Apparently he was brought to his senses by a female character, maybe the female he was missing earlier in life.
I am sure there are more complications ahead. Looking forward to it.

[Lori, Moderator]

I suppose Basil wanted to minimize the harm/hardship to his family, including Ralph, but given the fact that Mannion intended revenge to the whole family, not just Basil, Ralph and their father needed to at least know he was out there and be on the alert. Basil's not the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with, but to be fair, he's been ill recently and doesn't seem to be playing with a full deck.

I wonder where Collins expected readers’ sympathies to lie? On the surface, this could look like a cautionary tale of “If you marry beneath your station, your wife will cheat on you.” (But I have a higher opinion of Collins than that.) But I’m pretty sure it’s a tale of a young man’s passions and naivete leading him to do foolish things, and putting him in the way of people who would take advantage of him. His lower-class wife’s family could have just as easily turned out to be honorable, but then it would be a different book. And what were Victorian readers supposed to think of Basil’s father? I think he’s being unreasonable in disowning Basil, but is that because I’m a modern reader, or did Collins intend him to appear that way? I would expect the father to be angry, and perhaps he and Basil would agree that Basil should take his wife and live far away, at least for a while (if she hadn’t cheated on him, anyway), but I would not expect the father to actually disown him. And from a moral standpoint, Ralph’s crimes were worse, though he has obviously improved himself, seemingly with the help of his mistress.

So the answer to the questions I wondered last week was yes, Mannion groomed Margaret, and also yes, she was immoral even without his influence.

That’s a Dickens-level huge coincidence that Mannion was the enemy of Basil’s father.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Dickens and Collins were friends. Remember in our first week the question was similarities in book to Collins’ life. What connections do you see?

[Detlef]

Some background info to the friendship of Collins and Dickens.

https://www.wilkie-collins.info/wilki...

[Lori, Moderator]

Deborah wrote: "Dickens and Collins were friends. Remember in our first week the question was similarities in book to Collins’ life. What connections do you see?"

We see a bit of Dickens's "angel of the house" trope in Clara, though she's not been sought as a romantic companion so far. In general, though, I think Collins's women are more nuanced than Dickens's, perhaps partially due to the differences in the two writers' personalities and personal lives with women (Dickens was an unfaithful husband and contemptuous of his wife; Collins was pretty much openly in a long-term polyamorous relationship - please correct me if I've used the incorrect terminology).

And they rely a lot on extreme coincidence, but that's not unique to them.

Something about the "mood" is similar, but I can't put my finger on it. Basil keeps reminding me of David Copperfield, but the only outward similarities are that both protagonists are romantic men who are writers (their backgrounds and personalities are otherwise quite different). It's something about the atmosphere, and it's a very different atmosphere from Trollope or Eliot, for example.

[Robin P, Moderator]

Basil with Margaret is a bit like David Copperfield with Dora, but Dora has no evil or scheming in her, she is just shallow and childish. Margaret acts like that to charm Basil, but it is an act.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I find I relate more to Collins’ women characters than Dickens. Not always, but in general.

[Lori, Moderator]

Deborah wrote: "I find I relate more to Collins’ women characters than Dickens. Not always, but in general."

Yes, I found Rachel Verinder (The Moonstone) very relatable.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Lori wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I find I relate more to Collins’ women characters than Dickens. Not always, but in general."

Yes, I found Rachel Verinder (The Moonstone) very relatable."

I’ve read Woman in White, Armadale, The Haunted Hotel, No Name and now this one.

[Frances, Moderator]

I'm only about half way through this section so have skipped your comments at this point but...is anyone else mentally shouting at Basil "Cancel the Life Insurance!" ?

[Frances, Moderator]

Robin P wrote: "I still don't understand what the scam was. Was it just for Margaret to get gifts and money for a year, then disappear with Mannion? Or did they think Basil's father would be forced to recognize the marriage and keep Basil in his will? It seems that Basil could easily get a divorce/annulment since the marriage was never consummated.."

I think it was a double scam.
Mr Sherwin simply wanted to hitch his daughter to an upper class man and thinks Basil will come with money and position, not believing his father will disown him. The marriage certificate means that he has to acknowledge her (although I don't know if there was a legal requirement for a man to support his wife at the time) and the life insurance means that if Basil dies she will still get something.

Mannion has been working his own scheme to groom Margaret to marry him, and he is then thwarted when he returns to find her married to someone else, but attempts to recover by stealing her away at the last minute, and to revenge himself on Basil's father.

The whole Basil's father connection was just one coincidence too many for me!

[Frances, Moderator]

I really like Ralph. I think he has rebelled against his father's excessive snobbery and propriety, and been living the louche life on the continent for some years now. He has however fallen in love (and with an older woman at that) with someone beneath his station and has returned to London to lead a suburban violin-playing life, while helping out his family. He is the ultimate rake-with-a-heart-of-gold character, and very appealing.

What a result for the father-both sons in disreputable relationships and not even a sign of Clara going on the marriage market.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Frances wrote: "I really like Ralph. I think he has rebelled against his father's excessive snobbery and propriety, and been living the louche life on the continent for some years now. He has however fallen in lov..."

I was pleasantly surprised by Ralph. From the earlier descriptions I thought he wouldn’t be much help. But he truly grew as a person through his life experiences

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

Basil's father had such an extreme reaction to marrying someone from a lower class. The status of his family is more important than relationships in that family.
I feel sorry for Clara-I can see her wasting away as a lonely unmarried woman.
Ralph is a refreshing presence-and grounded in the real world.

[Rafael]

Well, all my predictions were false. I can say that I was not expecting these new facts about Margaret and Mannion.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Rafael wrote: "Well, all my predictions were false. I can say that I was not expecting these new facts about Margaret and Mannion."

Collins is very good at plot twists

[Rafael]

Deborah wrote: "Rafael wrote: "Well, all my predictions were false. I can say that I was not expecting these new facts about Margaret and Mannion."

Collins is very good at plot twists"

Indeed. But as I never read any of his books I did not know what to expect. I am very pleased by reading it.

[Rosemarie, Moderator]

I like Collins' writing style, even though parts of Basil were very extreme.
His descriptions of landscape and storms are very vivid, especially the dramatic cliff scene.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Rafael wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Rafael wrote: "Well, all my predictions were false. I can say that I was not expecting these new facts about Margaret and Mannion."

Collins is very good at plot twists"

Indeed. Bu..."

I’m glad we introduced you to Collins. His two most famous books are The Woman in White andThe Moonstone

[Rafael]

Deborah wrote: "Rafael wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Rafael wrote: "Well, all my predictions were false. I can say that I was not expecting these new facts about Margaret and Mannion."

Collins is very good at plot twis..."

I hope to read more of him in the future.