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The Uncertain Path (Jedi Apprentice #6) - Hailey, Rebecca & Zuzana
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Gibbs, I need you to go smack Qui-gon on the back of his head. It seems to have helped Tony and the others on NCIS get some sense through their thick skulls. How many more books before Qui-gon stops blaming Obi-wan for a bad judgment call and breaking trust with him when it is all because Qui-gon failed as a mentor and adult? Tahl is wonderful in this book, but goes too easy on Qui-gon concerning how he treated Obi-wan in the last book. Also, Tahl, tell Yoda you don't like that hovering droid that he sent you as a surprise. Maybe talk about how you'd prefer to ask for help rather than have a constant companion suddenly sprung on you with no way to refuse such an intrusive surprise. He may not realize you feel like its babysitting you because he simply is worried and thinks this is the best way to help you adjust...
condolences to you and your family as you mourn the loss of your grandmother.
Mod
Mod
Mod
Qui-Gon in the aftermath of Xanatos' fall apparently decided not to deal with the fallout and "hid" away from the Temple. It's mentioned in Book 1 that he was away for a very long periods of time only visiting the Temple very briefly once a year or so. I believe it was mentioned as well that he didn't want to be pestered to pick another padawan (one more reason to avoid the Temple).
Here he is annoyed that people around are probably wondering how he came to lose another Padawan. He's annoyed at the prospect of explaining to the Council what happened on Melida/Daan to the point he even rehearsed what some of the Council members would ask him. He's annoyed by the Bruck situation because he doesn't want to be asked to take on another apprentice.
So my conclusions are:
1. He stays for Tahl alone. He fled the situation once (after losing Xanatos) and he's irritated by it in the present yet he's willing to suck it up and deal with the awkwardness. Why? The only difference here is Tahl's presence and his belief that she needs him.
2. He's been in the Temple for more than 2 weeks and nobody questioned him directly how come he left a 13yo boy on a war-torn planet? Should I believe that the Council became all of a sudden so polite that they don't want to hurt his feelings? The Jedi Order took Obi-Wan from his parents when he was a baby, I would expect that they accepted responsibility for his well-being until he reaches adulthood. The very notion that they would let Qui-Gon take another pupil without investigating what happened to the previous one borders on criminal negligence.
Also, Qui-Gon is an ass in the scene with Yoda. Callous and cold. I know it masks his hurt but given the circumstances I don't care about his feelings (because he shows no contrition).
"So I should let him make his foolish decision," Qui-Gon said with a shrug. "Let him fight a war he can't win. Let him stand and watch the massacre that will result. He'll be lucky if he escapes with his life."
Qui-Gon nodded shortly. "I see disaster there. The Young cannot win."
He acknowledges here that he believes that he left him there to most likely die. So he knew there was no way to win and yet he never comunicated this to Obi-Wan. Explaining his reasoning might have helped and maybe could spark a conversation that would have let to an alternative solution.
Mod
Yoda sighed. "A hard choice it was, Qui-Gon. Yet willing are you to blame your Padawan. Place the choice before him you did: forsake Jedi training, or children die, friends are betrayed. Thought you understood a boy's heart, I did."
Qui-Gon stared stonily ahead. He had not expected this rebuke from Yoda.
What did you expect, Qui-Gon? A pat on the shoulder?
It seems to me that Qui-Gon tries very hard to avoid consequences of his actions. No self reflection, no thoughts what could have been done differently. Quite content to lay all the blame on the boy. So Yoda called him out on that.
Mod
"Are you saying I should have stayed?" Qui-Gon asked irritably. "What if Tahl had died?"
And yet we know that Tahl's condition was stabilized and slowly getting better. She got better to the point she could walk to the starfighter with Qui-Gon's help.
From The Defenders of the Dead:
"Cerasi had brought Qui-Gon a medpac, and he was able to treat some of Tahl's wounds. Already, she seemed stronger. She would be ready to travel by tomorrow, Obi-Wan knew. The Jedi powers of recuperation were remarkable."
"It's all right. I can walk, Qui-Gon. Your medicine has already helped me. I can make it, if you guide me."
Just a note: Not even Yoda knows what the right solution should have been. He only rebukes Qui-Gon that what he did was wrong.
Mod
I understand, Hailey. My grandpa died before I was born. My grandma lived with my family all my life. She was such a constant presence in my life. She died 13 years ago and I still miss her very much.
Mod
If I don't blame Obi-Wan, why should you? It's my life you're talking about."
Qui-Gon didn't sit, but he did stop pacing. Tahl cocked her head, trying to gauge his mood.
"It was a tough call," she said in a gentler tone. "You went one way, Obi-Wan another. It seems to me that you're the only one who continues to blame the boy. And he is a boy, Qui-Gon. Remember that."
Tahl = the voice of reason!
She also points out Obi-Wan's age.
It seems to me that Qui-Gon in his head confuses Xanatos (a 20+ yo betraying his trust for rank and wealth) and Obi-Wan (a 13yo betraying his trust for misplaced ideals of peace and justice). I would expect an adult pushing 50 to be able to distinguish between the two quite easily.
Mod
Tahl is the voice of reason. But why are the Jedi all treating this like it was ok to leave Obi-wan there? As a kid I didn't question this to much. As an adult, I think Qui-gon needs to hear that Obi-wan isn't the one who should be paying a price for Qui-gon failing as a mentor and guardian.
Mod
I think that both did wrong and should face consequences. The irony is that Obi-Wan recognizes and accepts his portion of blame while Qui-Gon acts as if he's done nothing wrong and is solely the victim in this. He denies any responsibility for the outcome.
If you don't own up to your mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. It's common sense, Qui-Gon. You don't need Yoda or Tahl to teach you that.
IMO Qui-Gon failed as a teacher to protect his underage charge from harm. It's a no brainer to me that he's the one with the major part of responsibility. The Jedi acting like it's just business as usual is quite disturbing. How come there was no official questioning, no reprimand?
I also believe that the deed and punishment should be proportional. So Obi-Wan made a mistake as a child, should his future be ruined because of that?
I think Obi-wan should have a probationary period to get counseling and restoring relationships with the Jedi prior to going back on missions. Qui-gon should have had questioning and been barred from having a Padawan honestly. He also needs counseling. His inability to own up to his own faults and failures is bad. Then again, the way the entire Jedi Order is handling this should be leading to consequences for the order as a whole.
Mod
It seems to me that the importance of mental health issues is constantly underplayed in Star Wars universe in general (Luke in the Last Jedi, Kylo Ren in the whole sequel trilogy, Anakin in the prequels).
Mod
Just some notes:
- the concept of fading Force powers reappeared in the Mandalorian. It seems that 10+ years of training don't prevent rather quick fading of the Force connection. Lack of training, meditation and concentration has to be a contributing factor.
- I wonder how long the whole Melida/Daan episode lasted.
From what's in the book, at the beginning it's been two weeks or more since the end of The Defenders on the Dead. Seems to me it had to be at least a bit longer. Lots of events happened on the planet in the interim.
- For all her needling of Obi-Wan about his "boss-Master", Cerasi in her heart longed herself to be reunited and reconciled with her own caretaker (father in her case).
- Obi-Wan in this series repeatedly demonstrated readiness to forgive after somebody wronged him (Derida brothers, the boy on Gala and now Nield). While the ability to forgive is admirable he should be more careful and avoid situation where he's taken advantage of.
Mod
This sounds reasonable.
It's funny given the fact we know that Qui-Gon's and Obi-Wan's relationship worked out in the end to see its beginning and how rocky it was. Compare it to Anakin's conviction that Qui-Gon was a perfect Master and his relationship with Obi-Wan was the golden standard to strive for. Obi-Wan as a Master inexperienced as he is, flaws, mistakes and all, suddenly doesn't seem so bad.
What I noticed is that Obi-Wan is sure that he can ask the Order to be rescued and Yoda will take him back to the Temple. What he doesn't know is whether the Council will let him become a Jedi again or not. So at least the children knew that they wouldn't be left on the street starving. That's something.
Mod
It seems to me that droids in SW from the very beginning are allowed to be either awesome (Artoo) or annoying (Threepio). The categories rarely mix. XD
Mod
"Peace isn't just a concept to me," she had said. "It is life and breath. I will never pick up a weapon again. I have seen what they can do. If a weapon of destruction is in my hands, sooner or later that weapon will be used. I will not contribute to one more death on Melida/Daan!"
- Obi-Wan in charge of disarmament shows that the Young had some good ideas. They were just not capable of running a government. The Council meetings showed that very well. They were overwhelmed.
This must be a great read for parents/children to discuss difficult topics.
Mod
That's what I thought but I re-read the passage at the beginning.
"Privacy was greatly respected at the Temple.
Qui-Gon had not been confronted with questions since he'd arrived. Yet he knew that curiosity bubbled beneath the calm surface of the Temple just as the hidden fountains flowed in the gardens. Students and teachers alike wanted to know the answer to one question: What had gone wrong between him and his Padawan, Obi-Wan Kenobi? Even if someone asked him the question, would he be able to answer it?"
***
""Time it is for you to speak your heart," Yoda said softly. "Past time, it is."
With a heavy sigh, Qui-Gon sat on the bench next to Yoda. He did not want to unburden his heart. Yet Yoda had a right to know the facts."
Yoda was the first to ask. Two weeks+ after Qui-Gon returned. Yes, it's that bad.
Mod
"Qui-Gon was in his quarters when he got the message that he was to report to the Jedi Council immediately. He was most likely being called to report on what had happened with Obi-Wan."
***
"How would they begin? Would Mace Windu, whose dark eyes could burn through you like hot coals, demand his reason for leaving a thirteen-year-old boy in the middle of a war? Would Saesee Tiin murmur that Qui-Gon's actions had always come from an impulsive but giving heart? He had been called before the Council more than most Knights. He could guess at what each would say."
This means the Council never questioned him before. And because they wanted to discuss the petty thefts, that only means they ignored the matter of Obi-Wan leaving the Order entirely. Yoda probably told them the facts he got from his conversation with Qui-Gon. But that's it.
I believe that you're right about the written report, Hailey. But I suspect that Obi-Wan leaving the Order was a footnote in the report on the Melida/Daan mission to rescue Tahl. (That's why Qui-Gon admits to himself that Yoda deserves to know the facts. As in he didn't make the facts known before.)
Mod
I agree. I believe it all stems from his never coming to terms with what happened to Xanatos. I noticed Qui-Gon in his mind never distinguished between the two betrayals. Which is riculous - the circumstances were so vastly different.
Hailey wrote: "Obi-Wan isn’t allowing himself to process his emotions about leaving the Order. He’s desperately convincing himself that he made the best decision in leaving: he has freedom, friends, a purpose, he’s a prominent member in the Young with some authority. Obi-Wan is finally being praised for his abilities and thanked for his service — something Qui-Gon didn’t do much of. Jude Watson makes it seem like Obi-Wan doesn’t miss the Order at all. Yet, deep down I’m sure he does,"
Yet, the book begins with Obi-Wan recalling Qui-Gon's advice (hearing it in Qui-Gon's voice). I agree with your observation that he's trying to convince himself that he made the right choice. But he misses him all the same.
"Remember, Padawan, when you are outnumbered, surprise is your best ally.
Qui-Gon's calm voice entered Obi-Wan's mind, twining through his apprehension like a cool river. He felt a pang. He had never carried off an operation like this without his Master by his side."
Recognizing his own mistake takes Obi-Wan some time and Cerasi later on helps him put things into perspective.
I wonder why the Jedi Order never questioned him. This seems out of character for the council. Unless it is Watson's attempt to show how the Jedi order have ideals which are good but can also end up being contrary to the safety of the young students under their authority.
I feel bad for Too-Jay as well. The poor droid is simply following its programming. I still wish Yoda had talked it over with Tahl prior to springing the droid on her.
Mod
I have a theory about that. I don't particularly like it because it has to do with the target audience and not inner logic of the story. Last night after finishing the book. I had time to read something else and I rushed through The Captive Temple.
There are two whole books dedicated to explaining why what Obi-Wan did was a mistake and what are the consequences of his actions. The author makes them clear as day. They are all spelled out.
I suspect that The Defenders of the Dead intentionally set the premise in such a way that lots of young readers don't understand that Obi-Wan is in the wrong and they identify with him. The next two books are needed to make sure that they get it. There is a moral that obedience is important and you should recognize adult authority - both very important for young children and early teens to understand. Somehow the counterpart - the responsibility that the adults - parents, teachers, legal guardians, foster parents and other caretakers - take on when caring for their underage charges - wasn't as important to get across and fell by the wayside.
The farthest Qui-Gon gets in The Captive Temple is that he admits he has trust issues and that it wouldn't be fair to Obi-Wan to deal with that (which again is not communicated to Obi-Wan so he believes that Qui-Gon simply rejects him. *sigh*)
She does many things well in this series. At least this makes for good teaching moments for parents to talk with their kids, but it is a shame these themes got dropped almost entirely or mishandled when it comes to the adult characters in this series.
Mod
I will give Jude Watson benefit of the doubt for now. Though I'm not holding my breath.
Do you remember, Rebecca?
Not for Melida/Daan. I know book 17 has stuff for the aftermath of books 14, 15, and 16 though.
Mod
And now I have to start reading Master and Apprentice.
Mod
Neither was I when I first read the book. It's still very sad though.
Hailey wrote: "If the Clone Wars didn’t give himself PTSD than Melida/Daan definitely did."
There's a scene in the following book that confirms it.
Mod
After the next story arc ends the changes will become more apparent.
This book tidied things up a bit too easily from where they left off in the previous book. The war on Melida/Daan seemed to wrap up a little too quickly in the first chapter (although we find out it is a short peace). And Obi-Wan's relationship with Qui-Gon and his status as a Jedi resolved without too much drama. I assume the next book might deal more with the consequences of Obi-Wan's actions.Yoda chastised Qui-Gon for following orders to rescue Tahl at the expense of helping the situation and for leaving Obi-Wan behind. Yoda noted that Qui-Gon would disobey Yoda's orders if it suited him, which is much the same argument Obi-Wan gave him. Despite Yoda's criticism of Qui-Gon, there are no further consequences to Qui-Gon for his actions and Yoda does not offer to get involved with the situation on Melida/Daan or to attempt a rescue of Obi-Wan.
I found that the Young were not much better than the Melida and Daan in that they cannot seem to stop finding reasons to continue the war. I am specifically talking about Mawat's plans and actions which gained support from other members of the Young.
I found it interesting that Obi-Wan could not tap into the Force after he renounced being a Jedi. When Qui-Gon give him his lightsaber back later in the book, the force flowed through him again. I assume this was all due to a mental block on Obi-Wan's part since I would not expect the Force to abandon him otherwise.
This book had very little humor, but I found TooJay's response to being told to get lost provided a little levity in an otherwise serious book: "I cannot get lost, sir, I am a navigation droid".
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Books mentioned in this topic
Master and Apprentice (other topics)Star Wars: The Captive Temple (other topics)
Star Wars: The Defenders of the Dead (other topics)
Star Wars: The Uncertain Path (other topics)
#6 The Uncertain Path
Participating: Hailey, Rebecca & Zuzana
Starting date: April, 12th
"Obi-Wan Kenobi is no longer a Jedi. He has chosen instead to be a part of the revolution on the planet Melida/Daan. His Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, has gone back to Coruscant, where trouble is stirring inside the Jedi Temple.
Obi-Wan takes comfort in his friends, the other leaders of the revolution. Together they have power--perhaps too much power. As the revolution continues, friends become enemies, and Obi-Wan's path grows more and more uncertain. Qui-Gon is no longer around to help him."