Outlander Series discussion
This topic is about
Outlander
miscellaneous
>
Random Musing: Is it "usual" ?
date
newest »
newest »
I think sometimes there is an electrical chemistry between 2 people that cannot be explained. Jamie and Claire fall into that category for sure! It is not the fact that Claire is a time traveler at all. Between Jamie and Claire there is lust, urgency, and a deep and abiding love and respect. Claire did not feel the same with Frank although she didn't know what she was missing at the time. The situations of being swept up in history and also living in a dangerous time certainly add to the tension, sexual and otherwise.
So, do you think he was asking to find out about this connection in general or kind of asking in an indirect way whether she had had that with Frank? I should add that it would be uncharacteristic for Jamie not to be direct, so maybe it is just asking in general. But, then, he does tip-toe around her marriage a bit. In the Claire's account about discussing their lives, she specifically says that neither brings up her previous marriage.
I think he was overwhelmed by this new and intense love and desire for Claire and, knowing she was more experienced, wondered if it was always (or often) that way and if it fades with time.
Jamie could certainly been fishing to see if Claire had experienced this before. I'm not sure. I think it's like Dian stated above he is overwhelmed with his feelings towards Claire. I also think that this is at the beginning of their relationship and while there is great lust full blown love has not come about yet.
drpeppergrrl wrote: "In the first book, the day after Jamie and Claire are married, he asks if its usual to feel this way when he touches her and when she lies with him. On the first and second read, I took this as a s..."I agree too with Diana's view of the question.
Having said that you point out something interesting. You ask if we've ever thought perhaps their intense connection is because she's a time traveler? I haven't considered that. I always thought their love connection is just the way romance novels are generally written.
I have wondered though, if Jamie seeing things and having dreams is a side effect of Claire and Jamie having a different type of connection because she's a time traveler. There is lots of speculation about Jamie and what's going on with him but I wonder if he's normal but gets this thing from Claire. We don't see it with Bree and Roger because they're both travelers. But having considered that, why not their intense love connection too? I wouldn't be surprised.
Thanks for your comments. Yeah, I did feel like there was a hyper-extended "magical" or "electrical" connection between Jamie and Claire because of the other magical/mystical elements to the story (more than typical romance novels). But, maybe I'm reading more into it than I should. I'm sure the same is true about the "is it usual" comment.
Interesting point of view. However, I think that in a time when most marriages were arranged, physical and emotional attraction would not have been something Jamie would likely have seen much of, perhaps with the exception of his parents, but he was very young when his mom died and would not have noticed such things at 8 years old or younger. Claire, being more experienced (and, of course WE know she is from an entirely different world) would know differently. He has really just discovered sex, and is rather overwhelmed. Of course, we find out later that he really loves Claire, too, but she doesn't known that yet. I have often wondered if the 'ghost' has something to do with it? Are they in some kind of time loop? Have they met before? Has he dreamed her? I can't wait till the next book to find out!!
Carol wrote: "Interesting point of view. However, I think that in a time when most marriages were arranged, physical and emotional attraction would not have been something Jamie would likely have seen much of, p..."Good points, about the norm or marriage in that time period. I wouldn't of thought of that.
As for the presence of Jamie in the future (ghost or not) perhaps his line can do astral-projection, as Bree seems to be able to do it as well. So not necessarily a ghost.
Specifically, I think of this quote from Jamie: “Does it ever stop? The wanting you?" "Even when I've just left ye. I want you so much my chest feels tight and my fingers ache with wanting to touch ye again.” There's a lot going on here, a lot of double meaning in the questions and revelations. Compared to what he knows - his experiences and observations - and what he's been told, Jamie seems to be asking about their relationship in general but maybe also testing her return of his feelings as if to say, "I really like you and it's kind of overwhelming. Do you feel that way too?"
From a relationship aspect, hopefully we all pretty much have felt the drunkeness of new infatuation. I took the initial meaning of the "wanting" quote to be just that sort of intimation. That is UNTIL Jamie confesses that he'd been in love with Claire from the beginning when they get to Lallybroch. And while he hadn't exactly used the "L" word before then, Jamie had been conveying those feelings to Claire since their wedding day in innocent enough ways. After rescuing her from Fort William, Jamie tells Claire just how worried and upset he was ("You're tearing my guts out, Claire.") I felt it was at that point that you see Jamie express how vulnerable his love for her has made him, how afraid he is of losing Claire (something that's oft repeated throughout the series), and how conflicted he's become over that vulnerability. And while Jamie tries desperately to control Claire (a means to end for controlling himself), he does admit defeat in a way that also reveals the depth to which his feelings have grown for her: “Oh, aye, Sassenach. I am your master . . . and you're mine. Seems I canna possess your soul without losing my own.”
It is in the spirit of Wuthering Heights a little when Cathy is defiant in her feelings for Heathcliff, "Whatever ours souls are made of, his and mine are the same."
So while the questions he asks of Claire feel innocent like new romance, Jamie is well aware their love transcends time and flesh. It's a really great question to ask....has he always known? How is that possible?
Lauren wrote: "Specifically, I think of this quote from Jamie: “Does it ever stop? The wanting you?" "Even when I've just left ye. I want you so much my chest feels tight and my fingers ache with wanting to touch..."I took it more that he was a virgin, he knew he was attracted to her early on, and wanted to bed her as he says. But what Carol said about arranged marriages of those time is true. Except for his parents, most people did not marry for love, and probably didn't feel passion for their mates. The men were off fighting and raiding or at the Lairds castle not at home so he finds this feeling he has for Claire alien to what he would have considered as normal. I think Jamie is shocked that he could live without sex until he is 22, and now that he's finally had it, he wants it all the time. But not with every women, just Claire. So it is a deep, passion he feels for her. Why her and no one else, I think is the question. What is it about Claire that he's attracted to that the other women of his time didn't offer.
As for Claire she knows the difference between Jamie and Frank's love. Jamie gives himself to her body and soul. And is willing to sacrifice everything for her. He trust and believes her, he admires her skills. He's in awe of her (as I think Sam is of Cait too in real life).
Her relationship to Frank was very different. He was much older than her. She was only 18 when she married him. I think Frank is more a "father figure" to her (replacing that Father she never had). He took care of her, made decisions for her, she didn't work until she went off to war. She says they were different people, and they came together only through sex. So it's a very different relationship. The war changed her, made her realize she could not only take care of herself, but she had her own interests, passions. I think she wanted more just didn't know how much until she met Jamie.
It's that all consuming love that we all want. If you didn't have that, and then found it what would you give up to get it. Surely hots baths! :))
Love is as much about how 'we' feel in that love relationship and what it brings out in us. Claire said after the rape in the glen, panicked and running to the stones - "... who did I want to be." At that point she chose Frank and the 40's because it seemed easier. She wasn't raised for easier. She was raised for the life she had with Jamie. In fact, it seems that her entire life was preparation for this meeting, this great love and adventure.Jamie was ahead of his time and even though his mother died when she was young and Brian never remarried, he must have seen and known true love. He was a romantic at heart and marriage meant a lot to him - and why he went to such lengths to make it a beautiful and official church wedding. We know he loved her then, so while it was arranged, he went into it with love in his heart for Claire.
I believe that 'true love' is overwhelming, especially at first when you've never experience that depth of feeling, longing and connection before. It knocked the socks off Claire too but she was afraid to admit it. Felt guilty about Frank etc. Once she got over that, she gave as much as she got. They showed each other their depth of love long before they said the words - that's beautiful!
I believe that with Jamie, Claire got to be her true self without masks of any kind. She didn't have to hide her strength, her opinions or skills. Jamie bared his soul and she hers - and they met as equals. I do not believe that Frank, emotionally, psychologically or physically was her equal. He was a stodgy professor who, having been separated from his wife for 6 years, took her to Inverness to research his ancestry. She had be cajole him into sex and was always the initiator. IMHO it was doomed regardless.
Jamie and Claire on the other hand were in love body and soul, almost like an extension of one another. Where one was weak the other was strong. They had total trust and respect for one another and were each others conscience, strength and compassion. In comparison, the love she and Frank shared was very shallow.
Had she stayed, or gone back, she would have been put into a little box as the 'professor's wife' as most working women after the war were. She would have been miserable as she had gained too much in those 6 war years to be satisfied. Her true self had been revealed to her and there was no going back to a traditional wifey role. They would have been childless and eventually, in my opinion been torn apart.
Frank couldn't help being himself, but Claire couldn't help being herself either and they were not a fit match, perhaps they never really were, but certainly after the war - it was already over for them, they just didn't know it.
Lauren, Brizo and Andrea --I think you've all nailed it. It sounds very hokey, but I believe Jamie and Claire are what in Irish Gaelic is annam cara; literally soulmates. The lyrics to the theme song, 'all that was me is gone' illustrate this perfectly. She is no longer who she was, and with Jamie, she's free to make herself into anything.
In many ways, Jamie is very forward-thinking for an Eighteenth Century man. He's willing to adapt, as is Claire (to his vow of protection when she has been brought up, it seems to me, to be pretty self sufficient).
A successful marriage grows and changes as the partners do. Jamie and Claire's marriage is exactly that. I don't think (from the clues we get in Voyager) that Frank and Claire's marriage was entirely successful. Sure, he supported her in her career, but there seems to have been a lot of jealousy on his part, and a marriage can't survive that.
Parker wrote: "Lauren, Brizo and Andrea --I think you've all nailed it. It sounds very hokey, but I believe Jamie and Claire are what in Irish Gaelic is annam cara; literally soulmates. The lyrics to the theme ..."
The Meaning of Anam Cara
Anam Cara refers to the Celtic spiritual belief of souls connecting and bonding.
In Celtic Spiritual tradition, it is believed that the soul radiates all about the physical body, what some refer to as an aura. When you connect with another person and become completely open and trusting with that individual, your two souls begin to flow together. Should such a deep bond be formed, it is said you have found your Anam Cara or soul friend.
Your Anam Cara always accepts you as you truly are, holding you in beauty and light. In order to appreciate this relationship, you must first recognize your own inner light and beauty. This is not always easy to do. The Celts believed that forming an Anam Cara friendship would help you to awaken your awareness of your own nature and experience the joys of others.
According to John O'Donahue, an accomplished Irish poet, philosopher and Catholic priest,
"... You are joined in an ancient and eternal union with humanity that cuts across all barriers of time, convention, philosophy and definition. When you are blessed with an anam cara, the Irish believe, you have arrived at that most sacred place: home."
Definitely sounds like our loving couple Claire and Jamie :)
Andrea, and Jamie even says to Claire, 'you are my home' in the first book.I suppose I can see it so well in Jamie and Claire because my husband and I have that kind of relationship.
Parker wrote: "Andrea, and Jamie even says to Claire, 'you are my home' in the first book.I suppose I can see it so well in Jamie and Claire because my husband and I have that kind of relationship."
Yes and that is why I said it is our couple ... they are each others home and soulmate aka anam cara. They both said it to each other at different points. They do except each other as they are with respect and trust.
Amazing!!!!
Lucky YOU and HIM!
Also wondering now if Jamie doesn't have a bit of the blue aura that he is able to dream into the future or astral travel as some have suggested.
Their souls have long burned for each other and I believe that it was he that summoned her to the stones that night in Inverness as he watched her brush her hair to start (or re-start) their journey together.
On a third read, though, I wondered if it isn't an indirect way of asking Claire if she ever felt this way with anyone else (particularly her "former" husband). I say this because even though they try to be honest, the subject of Frank is obviously a sore spot for Claire at this point and really, a point of jealousy for Jamie down the line. So, I could see his question having this hint of meaning to it.
What do you think?
And, what exactly is the magical, electrical nature of Jamie and Claire's connection? Is it because she's a time traveler (and generates that strange blue light later)? Even at the end of the 8th book, we still don't know exactly the extent of Jamie's "specialness" other than knowing that he has dreams/visions. Maybe its the connection of two people like this together? Yet, Bree and Roger are both special don't seem to quite have this same connection? Why?