April 7, 2021- May 21, 2021 The Sunne in Splendour Group Read- Part 3

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!]

Part three.

[Barb in Maryland]

Just started this part and look! George is is still being a royal pain.

[Barb in Maryland]

Hmm, Penman's rationale for Ned's decision re: George is very interesting...

[Kavan]

Elizabeth Woodville is really wretched. She is just awful. Penman doesn't even make her sympathetic when she ought to be. EW just rushes to the darkness.

[Susan in NC]

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Just started this part and look! George is is still being a royal pain."

Ha! “Royal pain” - saw what you did there!

[Susan in NC]

Kavan wrote: "Elizabeth Woodville is really wretched. She is just awful. Penman doesn't even make her sympathetic when she ought to be. EW just rushes to the darkness."

She certainly does- self-serving doesn’t begin to cover it - talk about a beautiful wrapper around a nasty, vicious core...

[Abigail]

But is Ned much better? After all, (view spoiler)[he’s willing to Trump up a death sentence against his brother to protect his children’s position in the world. Life vs. position? Shouldn’t be a hard choice to make. After all, he was guilty of what George accused him of. (hide spoiler)]

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "But is Ned much better? After all, [spoilers removed]"

Very true - Ned had great strengths, but great weaknesses, with far-reaching consequences. Near as I can tell, Elizabeth was just beautiful and conniving, (view spoiler)[at the end, her children did not even come when she died. They at least mourned Ned; I know it’s unfair, as Ned’s weakness was what caused all the pain in the first place! But, that’s the way it was... (hide spoiler)]

[Kavan]

Ned struck me as a more complex character. His actions were not excusable but he did seem to struggle with them. He had great strengths but equally weaknesses... I also feel like his arc was really about how absolute power corrupts absolutely. And I think there were a good many hints he was tortured by his decisions.

Whereas Elizabeth just seemed to be really petty. She was totally self serving in wanting to elevate her family and not much else. But again I think Ned's decision probably made her a lot more ruthless...whereas earlier she was just kind of petty and rude after his reveal she was like full on evil.

[Abigail]

The men are all more complex characters in this book than the women, aren’t they? I find this book very dated and a tad offensive in its use of maiden-mother-nun-whore tropes. It feels very 1950s/1960s in its sensibilities. Even when writing about a society as male dominated as the one being depicted, it is possible to write women as people rather than types.

As for Ned, his greater self-awareness makes him more morally responsible in my book.

[Susan in NC]

Kavan wrote: "Ned struck me as a more complex character. His actions were not excusable but he did seem to struggle with them. He had great strengths but equally weaknesses... I also feel like his arc was really..."

Definitely agree, thank you for your succinct summary of Ned and Elizabeth’s differences. He knew and cared about what he did, but was too weak to stop; she was just vindictive and petty - a beautiful shell, but no “there, there.” Wanting to stare at his crown while in bed together- eek! Gold digger, much? I’m really surprised Ned wanted her that much, for that long, honestly...

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "The men are all more complex characters in this book than the women, aren’t they? I find this book very dated and a tad offensive in its use of maiden-mother-nun-whore tropes. It feels very 1950s/1..."

That’s a good point - two, actually, about the dated Madonna/whore complex with all the female characters, and about Ned being morally responsible. I was wrestling in my mind, like some hellish game show, “Who’s the worst parent?” Elizabeth is petty and proud, but the Woodvilles sound like a rather nasty family, which may account for her being that way...Ned knows better (as my grandmother would have said, “was raised to know better.”)

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!]

I'm glad to get to Part 3. Part two did drag in parts for me I found Richard & Anne's story a bit cloying.

& George just gets more awful.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!]

After finding the first part so enthralling, I must say the end of Part 2 & beginning of Part 3 are dragging a bit.

[Kavan]

For me the book lagged a bit once Ned, Elizabeth and George had less to do. I think Pennman loved Richard but I don't think the way she scripts him is particularly compelling. I find myself convinced he was a lot more complex that she portrayed him.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ , She's a mod, yeah, yeah, yeah!]

George may well be more complex than Penman portrays him as well. From this distance it would be hard to think of reasons for many of George's actions though.