The Way West Buddy Read (expanded to include The Big Sky; Fair Land, Fair Land and These Thousand Hills)

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Sue - Fantastic. I am dying to know what someone else thinks.

Terry - Loved Jude, so you will be moving from one good read to another!

[Sue]

I just finished part one. This installment is a much quicker read than the others. There are lots of short chapters and lots of white space. There aren't as many musings or landscape descriptions as in the other two. I'm still loving it though and love Summers's new sidekick Higgins. He reminds me of Jim Deakins in that he's warm and friendly, more outgoing than Summers. They differ in that Deakins was more religious.

(view spoiler)[ at the end of part one, Summers and Teal Eye are just reunited. I'm excited to continue and know that Summers will help her and her blind son. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I also find traces of Jim Deakins in Higgins, but with distinctive personalities for each of them. Like Deakins, Higgins needs the company of others, so he would never take on this journey without Dick, while I believe Dick would go it alone but enjoys having Higgins for company. Higgins also adds some humor to the story (the way Walter Brennan did in the old westerns).

Sue (view spoiler)[did you love the bear story? It said so much to me about Dick that he wanted to save the bear, and I loved the way he turned the guy off by threatening him with imaginary Indians. (hide spoiler)]

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "I also find traces of Jim Deakins in Higgins, but with distinctive personalities for each of them. Like Deakins, Higgins needs the company of others, so he would never take on this journey without ..."

Yes, humor and music! He's a great guy to have around.

(view spoiler)[ I did love the Bear story. I loved how he wanted to save him and left a trail of food for him. It was perfect how he threw the trophy hunter off. It's wonderful how Summers only hunts for food and not for sport and cares about the animals as much as he does the land. Summers is the perfect man! (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I saw the bear (view spoiler)[ as a symbol for Summers desire to save what is left of the natural world he sees vanishing before him. The bear is injured beyond recovery, but he can make it in the world with only one paw missing and Summers wants him to have that chance...the way he wants to have a chance himself in a world he knows has the cards stacked against him. (hide spoiler)]

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

I'm catching up with you guys, but I'm not quite there yet! 😁 With distractions of summer, I'm only about 2/3 through The Big Sky, but oh I am so enjoying it - if you can call feeling melancholy "enjoying it". My, Guthrie was truly a philosopher.

I get so lost in Dick's musings... about the continent, his youth, aging. He almost makes me want to cry. Here are a couple of long excerpts that especially spoke to me (the first about the openness of the continent when he first went west, and the second on the steady marching of time):

It was known country to Summers, the Wind range was... he could remember when it was new, and a man setting foot on it could believe he was the first one... It was as if everything was just made then, laid out fresh and good and waiting for a man to come along and find it... but when he got some years on him he knew different; down deep in his bones he understood that everything was old; old as time, maybe - so old he wondered what folks had been on it before the Indians themselves... It made a man feel old himself to know that younger ones coming along would believe the world was new, just as he had done...

It was strange about time; it slipped under a man like quiet water, soft and unheeded but taking a part of him with every drop -- a little quickness of the muscles, a little sharpness of the eye, a little of his youngness, until by and by he found it had taken the best of him almost unbeknownst.

Part of me wants to peek back and see what happened to Boone and Jim in The Way West (I forgot what Summers remembered about them), but I don't want to spoil this book.

Guthrie had such a way with words. I agree with you, Sara... Guthrie is also being added to my list of favorite writers. I can't wait to join y'all in reading Fair Land, Fair Land. I'm hoping I'll be able to start by June 15.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "...I get so lost in Dick's musings... about the continent, his youth, aging. He almost makes me want to cry..."

I agree completely. That's what I enjoyed the most about The Big Sky.

[Lori]

Shirley, you are right, Dick did muse about those guys in The Way West. Now I’ll have to look when I have time. I love Dick’s musing - he’s just such a man of both worlds but you know where his heart is.

I’m giving myself time to finish up other reads before I start FLFL. But I really want to and can’t wait!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Love that passage, Shirley. I had marked it also, so I know it had an impact when I read it originally. I think these books become even more important to you after you have finished them. I keep thinking about each of them, and while I felt attached to many of the characters, I truly love Dick Summers.

I tried to hold off on FLFL, but once I started reading, I just couldn't quit. I am looking forward to having you and Lori join the discussion. So much I want to say! LOL.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "...I get so lost in Dick's musings... about the continent, his youth, aging. He almost makes me want to cry..."

I agree completely. That's what I enjoyed the most ab..."

I know. Isn't Guthrie amazing?

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Well... it looks like all three of us (Lori, Sara and I) are in love with Dick Summers. 😁 What strikes me about him is that his "best years" were really very few, and the rest of his life is spent living in the past. He's not bitter about it... just sad, I think, that life will never be as sweet. This book (The Big Sky) really makes me understand him better when, at the end of The Way West, he goes back alone into the wilderness. I understand now how his memories are tied up in the land that was and in the friends he left behind.

Lori, I can understand how you want to finish your reads in progress before moving on to FLFL. I am just about 100 pages from finishing War and Peace, and I've put it aside to read these wonderful Guthrie books with you guys. I love W&P, so I'll try to fit it in between sittings. LOL

[Lori]

Shirley, you will have to answer the question that Sara posed when you finish The Big Sky - whether you think reading The Way West first was a happy accident?

You have such wonderful insight into Dick and he's so much like many of us, isn't he? It's sometimes hard to not live in the past but we want to redo things differently or make changes. I don't think Dick wants that necessarily. I think he was happier in his "best years" and so he's sad to have had to move on from them because they way of life came to an end.

I am trying desperately to finish too many books this month and I am failing miserably already. I am 59% finished with Lonesome Dove and find it difficult to put down. But I may have to make time for starting FLFL in the next few days.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I had to finish FLFL before I could pick up Lonesome Dove, Lori. Too close in subject matter to read concurrently! We'll still be here when you are ready.

I think, for most of us, our best years are our younger ones, when we are full of the future and unafraid of the present. It is almost a shock when you reach the age where you find yourself looking back, instead of forward, knowing whatever you didn't accomplish so far might be out of your reach forever. I think this is where Dick is when he leaves the wagon train, but I think FLFL is proof that, even when we think life is behind us, it often still ahead.

[Sue]

count me in on loving Dick Summers Shirley. I'm pretty sure that first quote you used is the one I used in my review. I also loved Jim Deakins, but Summers is my favorite

[Sue]

Your comments about Dick and the Bear are perfect, Sara!

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Oh, I missed Sara's comment about reading The Way West first, Lori. I definitely agree that reading The Way West first was serendipitous. It really gave me an appreciation for The Big Sky that I might not have had otherwise. Dick Summers is definitely the lure in both of these books.

Welcome to the Dick Summers love fest, Sue! LOL

Jim Deakins was nice but did not really stand out to me. Boone was not a very sympathetic character, although I have appreciated his respect and protectiveness of both Teal Eye and Poordevil... his character does show that there is always some good in everyone.

I researched online, and there was an outbreak of smallpox among the Blackfeet tribe at this time, and nearly 6000 members of the tribe died. Such a tragedy! Guthrie was a solid historian!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Great point, Shirley--Guthrie gets all the history right, which really matters to me. That is also one of the reasons that everything he writes rings so true.

I appreciate your thoughts on Boone...will be looking forward to your final thoughts on Jim and Boone and Teal Eye.

[Terry]

I just started the novel last night. I am struck by how authentic Guthrie’s voice is. It’s almost as if you are sitting down at the campfire with old friends.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Exactly the feeling I get as well, Terry.

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "Love your thoughts on this, Lori, especially regarding the animals and Boone. I had not thought of it in those terms, but I feel you are 100% right. It strikes me that [spoilers removed]

So glad y..."

On your up to chapter 25 spoiler, Sara, I'll add up through chapter 26 (the end of Part II which is where I am)

(view spoiler)[  I too love Higgins and the process of finding him a bride made me love him all the more.  It was so sweet the way he insisted on her wanting it.    I could hear his fiddle too.    

I also loved that Summers named his son after Lije.  I would have liked it even better if he named him after Jim since he was murdered but that name wouldn't stick out.  After Summers I love Jim, Lije, and Higgins equally.  They all match up with Summers so well.  

I also loved that Summers wanted to officially marry Teal Eye and loved their marriage ceremony and the minister, Potter.    

It didn't bother me that  Summers wanted to confront Boone because he didn't want to murder him, he just wanted to hold him accountable.  I loved this quote from Summers:

"It struck him that he had become like Caudill in one way.  He didn't like people messing around.  He wanted what was leaving him, a world open and free, and his foot the first foot ever planted on the game trail, the first dipped in the mountain water.  A man walked with God then or could think he did.  There was a difference, though.  Caudill hated people, hated settlements and laws.  There was no flex in him.  A man could like people but dislike crowds.  He could like people but swear at what they did.  He could accept law if not cotton to it.  That, he thought was him, Dick Summers, who felt bad at what was bound to happen and was happening to this world"

This is so true and is part of what makes Summers so perfect.  He doesn't like what is happening but he's not going to go to war with people over it.  He's not going to judge and hate individual people for a collective change that is happening that is really out of everyone's control.

I'm glad that Higgins shot Boone so that Summers didn't have to kill him in self-defense or be murdered himself.   I would have liked it even better if Boone had regretted his horrible murder of Deakins and let it change him for the better, but he didn't.  He continued to make people's lives miserable.   (hide spoiler)]

[Sue]

Terry wrote: "I just started the novel last night. I am struck by how authentic Guthrie’s voice is. It’s almost as if you are sitting down at the campfire with old friends."

I agree, Terry. His prose is straightforward and unpretentious. He expertly brings out the beauty in ordinary lives. His heroes; Summers, Lije, Higgins & Deakins are everyday heroes. They are not larger than life, but right there in the middle of it. Each one has characteristics we can see in ourselves or the people we know.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Sue - I love everything you have said, and especially the quote you selected. (view spoiler)[That is definitely the difference in Caudill and Summers. Summers has kept his humanity, and Caudill has turned into an animal, moving and acting on instinct and letting no one get in his way or have the benefit of the doubt.

I was thrilled that it was Higgins who shot Boone, but surprised as well. And, it was over in a heartbeat, as if to say, this is not what this story is about. Caudill would have wanted it to be about him, but it isn't. He is expendable, it is the people he wants to destroy who are not. I think Boone had come to far to feel any regret. Regret requires conscience, and after he kills Jim, he drives all feeling out of himself--to face the fact is too hard, he would rather retreat into the lie (which he now knows is a lie).

I also took a liking to Potter. A good kind of preacher, the kind you would want to follow. The humor Higgins provides is just the right mix. Teal Eye and Nocansee are so lucky to have Summers. I'm not convinced Boone would have done any better by Nocansee if he had always believed him to be his own; he wasn't the kind of man to deal patiently with imperfection, and I think that was another reason he wanted to believe what he did of Jim. After all, that meant none of the "bad blood" was his. (hide spoiler)]

"His heroes; Summers, Lije, Higgins & Deakins are everyday heroes." Absolutely! That is what makes this series work so well for me.

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "Sue - I love everything you have said, and especially the quote you selected. That is definitely the difference in Caudill and Summers. Summers has kept his humanity, and Caudill has turned into an..."

Did you see my comments on your early spoiler above Sara?

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Yes, Sue, that was what I was reacting to in my spoiler above and the reference to your quote. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Sue]

My fault Sara, I didn't see the part above!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

😊

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "Sue - I love everything you have said, and especially the quote you selected. That is definitely the difference in Caudill and Summers. Summers has kept his humanity, and Caudill has turned into an..."

Your comments are so insightful, Sara (view spoiler)[ I agree even if Boone hadn't killed Deakins, he wouldn't have been a good husband or father. For me, he seemed to be only attracted to Teal Eye's beauty, and having a pleasant person to have sex with without getting the clap. I think Guthrie didn't let us get to know her because Boone didn't care to really know her. He does a much better job with her in this book. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Sue- (view spoiler)[You have it exactly, "Guthrie didn't let us get to know her because Boone didn't care to really know her." We kept seeing her through the eyes of men who regarded women as objects. The women who were in The Way West were fleshed out because they had substance to the men. When Teal Eye is with Summers, she has meaning to him, and we do see her in depth, with feelings and thoughts of her own. Thank you for making me think of it in this way. (hide spoiler)]

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "Sue- [spoilers removed]"

I really feel cheated that I didn't read The Big Sky 2nd. Even still, it made me appreciate the next ones all the more and gain an appreciation for it in hindsight, especially with all of your, Lauri's, and Shirley's comments!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Did you go back and read those last 40 pages, Sue? I definitely feel that reading in this order was a lucky mistake.

[Terry]

If FLFL proves to be as good as it is starting, I say, let’s keep going and read our way through the whole series, but I am only up to chapter 5 so far.

[Terry]

Sue, you and I are in the same boat, having read The Big Sky first. Too bad, but I am also glad that I read it, even if not in ideal order.

[Sue]

Sara wrote: "Did you go back and read those last 40 pages, Sue? I definitely feel that reading in this order was a lucky mistake."

Not yet, Sara. I meant to do it before starting this one, but now I'll try to do it after.

[Sue]

Terry wrote: "Sue, you and I are in the same boat, having read The Big Sky first. Too bad, but I am also glad that I read it, even if not in ideal order."

I agree, Terry. I'd say that this one definitely needs to be read last so at least we got that right! ; )

[Lori]

Terry, I’d be ready for book 4. It was available on thrift books so I’ve got it.

[Sue]

I forgot to comment that I'm up for These Thousand Hills. I purchased that one also. The other two I haven't been able to find a good price on so I'll probably stop with the 4th.

Should we wait until August so everyone can catch up? I'm fine with July or August.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I'm definitely in for These Thousand Hills. I would love if we were all starting it together, so any date that works for you guys will work for me.

[Terry]

August sounds great!

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

I'm still finishing up The Big Sky and will start FLFL next week (fingers crossed). I am definitely up for reading These Thousand Hills. I have a feeling I'm going to have a big letdown when we walk away from Guthrie's world. I have been so immersed in it and loving every moment. He makes me wish there were such things as time machines and we could go back to that point in time and see the west as he described it. My, how beautiful it must have been!

Yes... if we could wait to read These Thousand Hills until August, that would be so great. That way, I could finish up W&P and not feel so guilty for having put it aside so close to the finish.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Let's absolutely say August--I hate to think of you putting W&P away...that's another book that simply must be read. The break will give everyone a chance to regroup and catch up. I feel as you do, Shirley, this is a world I would love to see first hand; however, I am too much a wimp to actually live in it.

[Terry]

There are great pictures of all of these rivers online. Snake, Deschuttes, Popo Agie, etc. A lot of the areas are a bit rough for building, so the rivers probably look much same (although the water is probably not as clean as it was), and there may be people in canoes in the shots. I imagine the mountainous areas also have fewer signs of habitation.

I had family near Coleville, WA and also Kalispell, MT, and I have visited both places, as well as Moscow, ID and travelled the Columbia River to Spokane. All these areas have mountainous places that are “relatively” undeveloped, so although they are purely so, you can definitely get a feel for the land.

Where I grew up in the Sierras, for example, there were trails and timber hauling roads, a few old cabins here and there, some drainage ditches and structures, but the national forest that was there was fairly untouched once you got in there about a mile and stayed away from developments and roadways. It is better mapped now, because there are roads and marked trails now.

I cannot send pictures from the GR app, but perhaps I can get on the website from my computer later. It has gotten more crowded in the last 50 years, but you could still get pretty deep into the forested areas.

[Lori]

Wow, Terry how fantastic to have first hand experience and knowledge of these areas. It must be breathtaking. Someday it would be marvelous to fly up to Montana, rent a car and just drive.

Ah, and I noticed that you've corrected a faulty thought on my part. The Popo Agie is a river and I didn't gather that in TWW. Dick talked of heading there and I thought he was going to an Indian tribe. Now it makes sense.

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Sara wrote: "I feel as you do, Shirley, this is a world I would love to see first hand; however, I am too much a wimp to actually live in it."

That's exactly what I felt as I was typing that... that I would love to go back - but only if I could stay in the safety of an indestructible time machine. 🙋‍♀️. Yep. Another wimp here. LOL

Terry, that must have been so awesome to experience these places as you did. I'll have to see if there is a YouTube video of the Popo Agie. I'm really curious about it, as it appeared in both The Big Sky and The Way West. I love the name - Popo Agie - it just rolls off the tongue.

[Terry]

Lori, that’s what I tried to do whenever the opportunities arose. I used to attend a yearly conference, generally held in a different state every year, so I would combine my attendance with some sightseeing road trips generally related to my genealogical research. It was fantastic to see where people actually lived. The last time I did that was a conference in Denver, and I got see where my mother’s father and his parents lived. So it has involved cities as well as remote locales.

[Terry]

Shirley, I have looking online at maps and images all along through these novels, but I didn’t think about You Tube. That’s a great idea.

[Terry]

I don't know if this will work, but try this link:

Where the Clearwater River meets the Snake:
https://community.nrs.com/duct-tape/2...

[Terry]

Okay, so I guess I can put in weblinks, but I cannot copy/paste photos. So, since I have talked about it, just to give you an idea of where I s[pent my life as a teenager, see the following link. If you follow the flagpole up to the top, that is the mountain that I lived on, and you can see how forested it still is..

https://nevadacounty4sale.com/nevada-...

The town in the photo, Nevada City, was 5 miles downhill from home near the top, and 5 up! when returning on foot (in summer). If you look up a map of Nevada County, CA, you can place in relation to Sacramento and Lake Tahoe. The Donner party marker was between Nevada City and Truckee. On foot, it is still daunting country. I visited about two years ago, and when I got out of the car, the smell of the incense cedars immediately brought back my memories!

Wow -- the home prices in the for sale ads below are stunning! Then, it was a middle class existence, if remote (and more remote then than now). I have family that still live in the area.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I also went to see pictures of the Popo Agie while I was reading. It is still a beautiful wilderness area, but I'm sure there is civilization close by.



The town is lovely, Terry, but I had to laugh about the home prices being so high...it is happening everywhere, and Dick Summers would understand what that says about the still changing face of the wilderness.

[Terry]

Yes, Sara, that was my impression, too. When I was in Great Falls, MT, I drove north to National Park and from there over to Kalispell and Flathead Lake, and then down through Missoula before returning to Great Falls. It is spectacular, beautiful country as soon as you leave the flatland.

I did some camping in Sierras, but at this age now, I don’t reckon as I’d take to it again. I have been a city girl for most of my life and no matter which way I would turn, it would seem like I’d be sleeping downhill.

When they talked of their joints hurting with age, I can relate. I am going to need double partial knee replacement surgery in November. It’s bone on bone at this point and I am tired of the pain whenever I walk. Of course, for recovery, I will need to lay in a supply of reading material!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

For what it is worth, I know several people who have had the knee surgery, and they all say it was well worth it. Getting some reading done will be a plus.

You are very fortunate to have seen that country up close and to have connections there. I can imagine how wonderful it was as a child to camp in the Sierras. I camped in the Blue Ridge...the Smokies are hills compared to the Sierras, but for me still the most beautiful place on earth.