The American Civil War discussion
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Team of Rivals group read and discussion
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Good to see you back, Richard. Glad to know your class is almost over as well. I received my copy of The Sable Arm today, so I really can empathize with how fast the TBR grows.Yes, I have also heard about Chamberlain's supposed embellishments. After seven wounds, the last of which permanently disabled him in several ways, and seven times having a horse shot from under him (sometimes the same horse), I figure he can embellish some with no particular harm. ;-)
A lot of his distinguished record is publicly documented, his careers in education, public service, political accomplishments, etc. I tend to be skeptical of modern researchers who attempt to downplay or discredit historical figures with modern day assumptions.
Case in point in our current book: Lincoln must have been gay since he occupied a room and bed with other men. The truth must be weighed against the time period that it is being discussed, customs of the times, not by what is currently popular. This question was posed to DKG during the interview posted on the publishers' site.
As a long time researcher, I am very interested in the truth, so please don't take me wrong. However, modern professors and universities have been known to embellish, discredit, suppose characteristics that aren't really supported to further their own agendas.
Oh Richard how wonderful to get that whole set. The thought has crossed my mind as well. I have picked up a couple but will have to wait on the others for now. As I said the TBR is rapidly taking over my house. I get one read and buy twenty. ;-)
Porter - makes my day that I could make you lol (even if unintentionally :) .. I have a good sense of humor, that is predominantly sarcasm, which doesn't translate all that well on occasion .. I also come from a generation where we were able to laugh at each other so may get flippant now & then :)Richard - I saw what happened, you saw what happened, and there's actually what did happen .. the historian will always be using the first two of these . no matter how much they might try otherwise :)
MaryAnn - I'd estimate 99.9% of authors publish their books with the intent of making money .. I might suspect the percentage to be about the same for historical authors :)
I'm reminded of an old axiom that I wish I could credit properly - Don't ever let the facts get in the way of a good story :)
I've officially dedicated a small 3 shelf bookcase to TCW recently. I have filled up almost 2 shelves with current books (@ 50). I've read 2 1/2 of these books (not including ToR or BlackRecon). I have 3 more books coming by pony express (including ToR). I have a whole nother empty shelf .. this TBR thing is a monster with a life of its own :) :(
Richard wrote: "And to Porter's point, I purchased the entire series of books of the "Oxford History of the United States" - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08......"No idea there was such a series. I thought it was done by Samuel Eliot Morison many years ago - The Oxford History of the American People 1. Although I do have Freedom from Fear: The American People in Depression and War, 1929-1945 by David M. Kennedy.
Keepin up with reading, but falling behind on comments .. so a few on chap 4 ...Thought it was very interesting that President Polk was looking for WMD in the Gulf of Tonkin when starting The Mexican War .. and poor Lincoln [and Bates to a lesser degree] took political steps backwards as a result of saying so :(
Guess we're getting rumblings of some party upheaval to come - already see Whig splintering & Free Soilers appearing . and know there's gonna be just Republicans around the next corner or two.
Pretty amazing Lincoln said Alexander Stephens (future VP of the confederacy) gave the best one hour speech he ever heard - wow!
President's names are flying by that I recognize, but didn't realize their terms were during this important pre pre civil war period ... There was a time I saw a guy lift 3x his own weight over his head . as a buildup, the 'announcer' said 1 in 10,000 people can lift their own weight over their head - 1 in a million 2x & 1 in 100 million 3x - made me think there might be more people who can lift 3x their weight than can name every president :)
P.S. The guy was a 12 year old kid that weighed 65 lbs and lifted 200 !
Yea - we have a map! Good to get a lay of the land before we forge ahead into the 50s. Have looked at the equivalent of this map several times and certainly have seen many 'territories' referenced in this and many other readings. I've always kind of naively read 'territory' as 'state' all along, but that is a mistake for sure. We obviously had more [physical] land in territories than we did in states . which made for great policy debates. I know these territories will be key in next chapter or 2 [and beyond]; but started having some curiosities about how territories boundaries were determined, how a territory gets to become a state and how these huge territories became the multiple states they did (originally scoffed at Neb getting a co top billing in the Kansas-Nebraska Act until I went back to the map & saw Nebraska was half the country :) .. not sure whether our book will [or should] get into any detail here.Be back later with some comments on Chapter 5 . which made me embarrassed to be an American :(
Read chapter 9 this morning. I also just finished reading William Freehling's Road to Disunion 2 part series. A bit of overlap, but Freehling's insights into what I will say is an attempt by some in the South to effectively form an aristocracy was an interesting contributor to civil war. It was not that there was that high a percentage of people of the north as abolitionists, it was the idea of every man as equal growing in strength being deeply opposed by a wealthy planter class with a great deal of political power. Anyway, Chapter 9. Well written, enjoyable read. I noted a couple key points -
1) Lincoln distanced himself from abolitionists, not to earn votes in the South but to earn votes in the North - our current histories do not inform as well on this topic as one would wish. Racism was rampant and freeing the slaves was not wildly popular anywhere.
2) Amazing how only Frank Blair seemed to figure out that the South was serious (and of course Douglas, to his credit)
3) Surprising to me that Irish immigrants would be so pro-slavery, but then again if the slaves were free then there would be much cheap labor competition. Economic interests often outweigh other principals...
Anyway, best of luck with May and more reading :-)
Chapter 10 is like a tutorial on what I hate about politics. Seward had one heck of an ego, and the wheeling and dealing behind the scenes could just have easily happened this year. Some things don't change nearly as much as we think they do....
Chapter 11 finishes the first part of the book, and again shows just how smart Lincoln was politically, *except* for the way he got into DC.
And chapter 12 - The war starts. The biggest observation I take out of this chapter is how fast things take place now compared to the Civil War. A "crisis" still allowed several days for Lincoln to think about it. Of course, even during the Civil War that would change... And Seward...well.... a lot to be said about his attempts to get a war with someone else, as well as his inappropriate attempts at acting as if he were elected president.
Starting to be a bit lonely here :-) Are we still going to do this book? Chapter 13 - the war has started. The first battle of Bull Run, a defeat for the Union. And an administration, as one would expect, struggling with the sudden demands of war.
Richard, someone came in and posted a new monthly read. I took it as we weren't wanted here. I still come in to read the posts, but I don't plan to continue the reading.
OK. Well... i will finish the book then... bummer.
Yes, I thought it was a bummer myself. We offered up several posts and a couple of weeks and no one said anything, so it was pretty rude for someone to post over the top of us after the group started reading the book.
Hi Guys! Sorta glad to hear it wasn't my flippant comments that put a halt in our commentaries - was a little worried and feeling bad - I do mean well :) I'm also bummed we won't explicitly be carrying through with the reading; though hopefully the forum can reside for comments as we make our way through the book (ala Richard) . and maybe all things Lincoln for that matter :) I stopped after chapter 6 (as much personal reasons as group lull), but have every intention to complete this amazing book!
Well, I will add that i'm up to chapter 19 now. The book has "sped up" for me since I have read a bunch of other books on the war itself and just finished my Civil War class. The insights on the cabinet's machinations, the political intrigue, and the backstory on how unprepared from a medical perspective are all fascinating insights for me.
The American Civil War
Books mentioned in this topic
The Oxford History of the American People 1 (other topics)Freedom from Fear: The American People in Depression and War, 1929-1945 (other topics)
Report on the Condition of the South (other topics)
Kate Chase, Dominant Daughter: The Life Story of a Brilliant Woman and Her Famous Father (other topics)
How We Elected Lincoln: Personal Recollections Of Lincoln And Men Of His Time (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Samuel Eliot Morison (other topics)David M. Kennedy (other topics)
Doris Kearns Goodwin (other topics)
Walter Stahr (other topics)
of which both of these are part of the series. These are all long, detailed works but great history and as you noted many have won prizes as works of history.