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Starting this today. My Audible App has issues after the latest update, so this book on LibriVox it is.
Philina wrote: "Starting this today. My Audible App has issues after the latest update, so this book on LibriVox it is."I think you'll like it even better! Nick Whitley is wonderful!! ;)
Oh yes, I intended to listen to Nick Whitley from the start! He was brilliant in Barchester Towers as well. All the other books planned for April are on Audible, so the decision with which to start was easy.
I read this years ago, and would like to join in.I think I have the Penquin around, but I mostly read Kindle these days.
Philina wrote: "Oh yes, I intended to listen to Nick Whitley from the start! He was brilliant in Barchester Towers as well. All the other books planned for April are on Audible, so the decision with which to star..."
Oh good! I'm hoping to be able to join in with Dr. Thorne, but I have a few others that I have to get through first. Enjoy!
Philina - thank you for setting up a thread!
Hi everyone! I'm in for Doctor Thorne in April! I can't wait to see what this next book will be about! :)
Hi everyone! I'm in for Doctor Thorne in April! I can't wait to see what this next book will be about! :)
Christopher wrote: "I read this years ago, and would like to join in.
I think I have the Penquin around, but I mostly read Kindle these days."
Glad you're joining us! We've had great fun reading and discussing The Warden and Barchester Towers.
This is my edition
.
I enjoy reading paper books and Kindle, but my middle aged eyes prefer the Kindle :D
I think I have the Penquin around, but I mostly read Kindle these days."
Glad you're joining us! We've had great fun reading and discussing The Warden and Barchester Towers.
This is my edition
.I enjoy reading paper books and Kindle, but my middle aged eyes prefer the Kindle :D
Christopher wrote: "I read this years ago, and would like to join in.I think I have the Penquin around, but I mostly read Kindle these days."
I too find Kindle (the e-ink device) and audiobooks very useful as I spend a lot of time looking at monitors for work and they can help me continue with some fiction pursuits while reducing additional eye-strain. Some of the Librivox readers really are excellent, I find too! I don't have Audible but the local library now has free e-audiobooks for loan which are very welcome :)
I'm now in chapter 3 and I start to see some patterns Trollope seems to come back to:There is always an older male character who is very good at heart. We had the Warden and in this book it might be Dr. Thorne (my first impression of him).
The press seems to be important. Already in chapter 3 there is a newspaper war taking place. I wonder if the press played some important role in the author's life.
The author likes to break the fourth wall and meta comment on narrative directly to the reader.
Let's see if we can find more patterns.
I'm so happy that we're doing this series together!
Ok, I want so bad to read this and will go pick it up tomorrow. I have a long tbr this month but there’s something about reading this with others!!!!
I looked at my paperback copy last night - the print is super tiny! I ordered some reading glasses to try - I'll jump in once my glasses are here or if they don't work, I'll get a Kindle version of Doctor Thorne.
Aging eyes are interfering with my reading urgh! Lol!
Lori - I'm glad you're joining in! :)
Aging eyes are interfering with my reading urgh! Lol!
Lori - I'm glad you're joining in! :)
I'm having great fun thus far. Dr Thorne seems to be a good man and I'm enjoying meeting the Gresham family members.
Just finished the introductory material in my copy of Doctor Thorne. There's a biographical point mentioned that I've come across elsewhere that I find interesting -
Trollope's posthumous An Autobiography (1883) startled a large number of readers. Its dry discussion of how much money his fiction made denied any Romantic model of authorship. Here was no account of the creative flash of inspiration. Writing fiction was more like a trade, the result of well-applied skill and labour. But, knowing at first hand the cost of his father's failure, it was important to Trollope to demonstrate to his family, if to no one else, that he had made such a success of his life...He wished to demonstrate too, in a culture less familiar with the notion of a professional writer than ours, that writing could indeed be a life.
Trollope also was strict in his output. He woke early in the morning to put in a few hours of writing before he went to work. I've read that his goal was to write 10,000 words each week.
Any thoughts on this? Do you think Trollope's writing is diminished in any way because he wrote for money? Do you think a strict writing schedule stifles creativity? Do you think Trollope's novels are less entertaining, lesser works of literature?
I think Trollope was a naturally talented writer - insightful and witty - and I don't feel that his writing lacks anything just because he approached it as a job. It doesn't change my opinion of him as an author - I don't think I would love his novels any more than I already do if he'd been a writer of leisure. I think I respect him more for working industriously to create his novels than if he'd written them, say, as a gentlemen's bet (I bet you £200 that I can write a novel, have it published, and be a tremendous success).
Trollope's posthumous An Autobiography (1883) startled a large number of readers. Its dry discussion of how much money his fiction made denied any Romantic model of authorship. Here was no account of the creative flash of inspiration. Writing fiction was more like a trade, the result of well-applied skill and labour. But, knowing at first hand the cost of his father's failure, it was important to Trollope to demonstrate to his family, if to no one else, that he had made such a success of his life...He wished to demonstrate too, in a culture less familiar with the notion of a professional writer than ours, that writing could indeed be a life.
Trollope also was strict in his output. He woke early in the morning to put in a few hours of writing before he went to work. I've read that his goal was to write 10,000 words each week.
Any thoughts on this? Do you think Trollope's writing is diminished in any way because he wrote for money? Do you think a strict writing schedule stifles creativity? Do you think Trollope's novels are less entertaining, lesser works of literature?
I think Trollope was a naturally talented writer - insightful and witty - and I don't feel that his writing lacks anything just because he approached it as a job. It doesn't change my opinion of him as an author - I don't think I would love his novels any more than I already do if he'd been a writer of leisure. I think I respect him more for working industriously to create his novels than if he'd written them, say, as a gentlemen's bet (I bet you £200 that I can write a novel, have it published, and be a tremendous success).
An interesting question Cozy_Pug. Maybe compare also to Dickens?..I don't think I would judge his writing lower because I found out it was written for money. On the other hand, there are rather a lot of places where the need to produce a novel of given length shows; for example, I remember in one of his "Parliamentary" novels there was a side plot running the whole length of the novel about marrying off one of the young relatives, that wasn't ever connected up to the main plot and almost didn't intersect with it, also rather uninteresting in itself. If you look at a novel as a work of art, of course that sort of thing diminishes it.
But then, my basic underlying opinion of Trollope's works is that they are entertainment literature, novels of manners you might say? Mostly high quality entertainment, sure. Not searching into the depths of human nature, posing eternal questions, or critiquing big society problems.
And if we do come back round to Dickens, Trollope was more conservative both in his opinions and his subject matter; at least Dickens could claim he was trying to open educated people's eyes to the plight of the poor, by setting many of his novels in the lower class of society and making his characters from there come alive.
That’s totally interesting, Cozy Pug! In my opinion, it doesn’t diminish neither the quality of the novel, nor my enjoyment of it. Authors have to eat after all!
I love his idea of output. I‘ve heard that Steven King has a similar approach. My dad was an English teacher and always said „Writing is re-writing.“ If an author puts something on paper on Monday, because he makes himself work everyday on his book, he still has Tuesday to Friday to re-write, polish and improve the quality. If only George RR Martin had the same attitude... 😭
I don’t think it hinders creativity. My approach to writing would be the one of JK Rowling: to first make an outline of the whole plot. This way, I could properly use foreshadowing etc. This way, most of the creative thinking is done before writing anyways, so an everyday output is no problem.
George RR Martin is a gardener style writer who puts down seeds for possibilities and then later decides if and how he wants to grow them. To each his own, but in my opinion this creates problems, e.g. false foreshadowing or writing oneself into a corner (the Mereenese Knot). No wonder it has been ten years since the last book...
Nente - You bring up a good point - the novel as a work of art vs the novel as entertainment. I would definitely classify Trollope as entertainment, high quality as you say. I agree that Dickens uses his novels as a social justice platform moreso than Trollope. I do see insight into human nature with Trollope though, and I think The Warden brought up some issues to consider (the media, church abuses). I remember in that book that Trollope referred to Dickens as Mr Popular Sentiment :D, so maybe that was his way of acknowledging that his novels were not intended to argue deep social issues.
I was searching through Dickens short stories a few days ago. I came across a modern critique of one (I can't recall which now), but the argument was that Dickens wrote this particular short story strictly because he needed the income it would provide. And this essayist felt the story reflected that - it wasn't at the level that we expect from Dickens. If that's the case, Trollope wasn't alone in writing for income. I suspect other authors of this era wrote for the money, too. It seems obvious to us today, I think, maybe because we don't view fiction writing as a calling separate from the need to earn a living.
Philina - I love that your father was an English teacher! My father in law was as well. I like your father's idea that writing is re-writing. That process makes perfect sense to me, and I don't think it hurts creativity.
Bringing up Dickens again, I'm in a Dickens group here and were reading Dombey and Son right now. If I recall correctly, this was the first novel that Dickens planned out in full before he wrote it. With earlier novels, he would change things along the way based on how the reading public reacted to each serial installment. The way Dickens wrote Dombey seems similar to J.K. Rowling's approach as you describe it - which is a fun comparison to think about!
I've not heard of George RR Martin - sounds like his writing method maybe doesn't work so well!
It's been maybe 10 years ago that I read Freedom by Jonathan Franzen. The dust jacket was much better than the actual book, in my opinion, but anyway I remember reading an interview with him around that time. He described his writing process as a job. He said he had a place he went to every day, like an office outside his home, and sat down and wrote. Again, the idea of output I think, having the discipline to sit down and write every day. Seems perfectly respectable and reasonable. That said, based on the one book of his that I read, Franzen is a far cry from Trollope! :D
There's another contemporary author I've read about - never read his work because it has zero appeal and after reading some interviews with him, his attitude toward writing is, to me, repugnant. He basically says he comes up with ideas then has another writer flesh it out into a novel. The way he described it made it sound like a business and it was just very unappealing. To me that's a whole different kettle of fish than an author writing as a job, with an output goal, for income. I don't want to name this author - someone here might be a huge fan, and I've never read his work so I don't have much of a leg to stand on to offer criticism of him.
I think I may have led the thread astray lol, but when I read about Trollope's approach to writing yesterday it really made me curious to know what you all think about it.
I was searching through Dickens short stories a few days ago. I came across a modern critique of one (I can't recall which now), but the argument was that Dickens wrote this particular short story strictly because he needed the income it would provide. And this essayist felt the story reflected that - it wasn't at the level that we expect from Dickens. If that's the case, Trollope wasn't alone in writing for income. I suspect other authors of this era wrote for the money, too. It seems obvious to us today, I think, maybe because we don't view fiction writing as a calling separate from the need to earn a living.
Philina - I love that your father was an English teacher! My father in law was as well. I like your father's idea that writing is re-writing. That process makes perfect sense to me, and I don't think it hurts creativity.
Bringing up Dickens again, I'm in a Dickens group here and were reading Dombey and Son right now. If I recall correctly, this was the first novel that Dickens planned out in full before he wrote it. With earlier novels, he would change things along the way based on how the reading public reacted to each serial installment. The way Dickens wrote Dombey seems similar to J.K. Rowling's approach as you describe it - which is a fun comparison to think about!
I've not heard of George RR Martin - sounds like his writing method maybe doesn't work so well!
It's been maybe 10 years ago that I read Freedom by Jonathan Franzen. The dust jacket was much better than the actual book, in my opinion, but anyway I remember reading an interview with him around that time. He described his writing process as a job. He said he had a place he went to every day, like an office outside his home, and sat down and wrote. Again, the idea of output I think, having the discipline to sit down and write every day. Seems perfectly respectable and reasonable. That said, based on the one book of his that I read, Franzen is a far cry from Trollope! :D
There's another contemporary author I've read about - never read his work because it has zero appeal and after reading some interviews with him, his attitude toward writing is, to me, repugnant. He basically says he comes up with ideas then has another writer flesh it out into a novel. The way he described it made it sound like a business and it was just very unappealing. To me that's a whole different kettle of fish than an author writing as a job, with an output goal, for income. I don't want to name this author - someone here might be a huge fan, and I've never read his work so I don't have much of a leg to stand on to offer criticism of him.
I think I may have led the thread astray lol, but when I read about Trollope's approach to writing yesterday it really made me curious to know what you all think about it.
I've read chapters 1-10, and I'm enjoying Dr Thorne just as much as the last two Barset books! Trollope still does the stylistic authorial comments, and I love that - so funny!
A few things I particularly like -
The term "squirearchy" - that conjures up visions of strutting county squires :D
The all important annual income, always considered in marriage matches -
Fourteen thousand a year will receive honour; but the ghost of fourteen thousand a year is not always so self-assured.
Some thoughts on British class structure -
...what makes a gentleman? what makes a gentlewoman? What is the inner reality, the spiritualised quintessence of that privilege in the world which men call rank, which forces the thousands and hundreds of thousands to bow down before the few elect? What gives, or can give it, or should give it? And she answered the question. Absolute, intrinsic, acknowledged, individual merit must give it to its possessor, let him be whom, and what, and whence he might.
This just made me laugh out loud -
Now the drop of som'at hot signified a dose of alcohol sufficient to send three ordinary men very drunk to bed.
Hope everyone is enjoying the book so far!
A few things I particularly like -
The term "squirearchy" - that conjures up visions of strutting county squires :D
The all important annual income, always considered in marriage matches -
Fourteen thousand a year will receive honour; but the ghost of fourteen thousand a year is not always so self-assured.
Some thoughts on British class structure -
...what makes a gentleman? what makes a gentlewoman? What is the inner reality, the spiritualised quintessence of that privilege in the world which men call rank, which forces the thousands and hundreds of thousands to bow down before the few elect? What gives, or can give it, or should give it? And she answered the question. Absolute, intrinsic, acknowledged, individual merit must give it to its possessor, let him be whom, and what, and whence he might.
This just made me laugh out loud -
Now the drop of som'at hot signified a dose of alcohol sufficient to send three ordinary men very drunk to bed.
Hope everyone is enjoying the book so far!
I've read through chapter 20 now. Still so good, the plot is interesting and I've had a lot of good laughs.
One thing I wonder about - the book is titled Doctor Thorne, he seems a bit incidental so far. More of a connecting thread amongst other characters and plot lines. I'm curious to see if he comes into the story more as it progresses.
Thoughts on chapters 11-20 -
(view spoiler)
One thing I wonder about - the book is titled Doctor Thorne, he seems a bit incidental so far. More of a connecting thread amongst other characters and plot lines. I'm curious to see if he comes into the story more as it progresses.
Thoughts on chapters 11-20 -
(view spoiler)
Just finished chapter 30. Cozy Pug, I cannot read spoilers on the app, I will come back for them later. I like the story and it’s a good one, I have laughed quite heartily, but all in all I think it’s not as comedic as Barchester Towers. The love story takes more center stage.
I've now read through chapter 30. It's been a roundabout love story, but it really took a leap in the last chapter!
(view spoiler)
(view spoiler)
Finished! I'll post my thoughts shortly.
Quick summary - I love this book!!!
More thoughts - (view spoiler)
Quick summary - I love this book!!!
More thoughts - (view spoiler)
Well, my library doesn’t have this one. Ugh. I’ll have to put off reading this until I can get a copy. I’m very happy to hear that you’re all enjoying it. It’s the only book I’ve seen the Netflix show for and it was soooo good.
Lori wrote: "Well, my library doesn’t have this one. Ugh. I’ll have to put off reading this until I can get a copy. I’m very happy to hear that you’re all enjoying it. It’s the only book I’ve seen the Netflix s..."
Well, boo! That's disappointing, Lori.
I didn't know there was a Netflix program for Doctor Thorne - I need to see about that!
If you have Amazon prime or Kindle unlimited, Doctor Thorne is available to borrow for free.
Well, boo! That's disappointing, Lori.
I didn't know there was a Netflix program for Doctor Thorne - I need to see about that!
If you have Amazon prime or Kindle unlimited, Doctor Thorne is available to borrow for free.
Cozy_Pug, I’m thinking now it’s actually on Amazon not Netflix. It was done by Julian Fellowes of Downton Abbey fame.
Oh, I looked on Amazon just now - I see it! Thank you!
I found an old BBC production of Barchester Chronicles on YouTube that I've been planning to watch - it's the first 2 books in the series made into 1 program.
I found an old BBC production of Barchester Chronicles on YouTube that I've been planning to watch - it's the first 2 books in the series made into 1 program.
I finished this one and loved it so much. So glad we've started these buddy reads as I will be reading Trollope for a while to come.
Carolien wrote: "I finished this one and loved it so much. So glad we've started these buddy reads as I will be reading Trollope for a while to come."
I'm so happy you loved Doctor Thorne! Trollope wrote a lovely romance!
I plan to continue on with Framley Parsonage next month!
I'm so happy you loved Doctor Thorne! Trollope wrote a lovely romance!
I plan to continue on with Framley Parsonage next month!
I'll join for the Framley Parsonage read!
Carolien wrote: "I'll join for the Framley Parsonage read!"
Yay! Looking forward to it! :)
Yay! Looking forward to it! :)
I'm joining in as well :)I'm setting up a thread for us.
After Framley I'm not sure. The LibriVox audiobooks end for now with Framley. I might wait for Nick to record the next book.
Lori wrote: "Cozy_Pug, I’m thinking now it’s actually on Amazon not Netflix. It was done by Julian Fellowes of Downton Abbey fame."
I finished watching this last night. It's really good, it's Julian Fellowes so how could it not be! There are departures from/changes to the novel - that always irritates me when adaptations do that. But once you get into the series and caught up in it, it's really good on its own.
The best thing I liked about it is that at the beginning and ending of each episode, Fellowes talks about Trollope, the book, the characters - it reminds me of PBS Masterpiece Theatre of old when Alistair Cooke hosted. Fellowes has some good and interesting insights into Doctor Thorne.
Between the Doctor Thorne and old BBC adaptation of The Warden and Barchester Towers - I much prefer the old BBC series. It's hard to beat the fabulous cast - Donald Pleasance, Geraldine McEwan, Clive Swift, Alan Rickman, Nigel Hawthorne - the acting in this series is stellar. And it feels true to the books. But I recommend both if anyone is interested in televised adaptations.
I finished watching this last night. It's really good, it's Julian Fellowes so how could it not be! There are departures from/changes to the novel - that always irritates me when adaptations do that. But once you get into the series and caught up in it, it's really good on its own.
The best thing I liked about it is that at the beginning and ending of each episode, Fellowes talks about Trollope, the book, the characters - it reminds me of PBS Masterpiece Theatre of old when Alistair Cooke hosted. Fellowes has some good and interesting insights into Doctor Thorne.
Between the Doctor Thorne and old BBC adaptation of The Warden and Barchester Towers - I much prefer the old BBC series. It's hard to beat the fabulous cast - Donald Pleasance, Geraldine McEwan, Clive Swift, Alan Rickman, Nigel Hawthorne - the acting in this series is stellar. And it feels true to the books. But I recommend both if anyone is interested in televised adaptations.
Catching up on Classics (and lots more!)
Books mentioned in this topic
Framley Parsonage (other topics)The Warden (other topics)
Dombey and Son (other topics)
Freedom (other topics)
The Warden (other topics)
More...
A superbly narrated audiobook version can be found here:
https://librivox.org/doctor-thorne-by...
Project Gutenberg should have a free ebook version. I sadly cannot link to it, because PG is not available in Germany :(