Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
Policies & Practices
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Non-Subscription Bookfunnel
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I tried to access several different "free" books [including that one] and Bookfunnel required an email address, so I didn't go further, as I do not want to give them my information.Possibly once you have signed up with Bookfunnel, you don't have to give the author an email address.
So clarification would be helpful.
Suzi,How did you try downloading the book?
Can you check and see if it asks for an email with the following steps?
*Click "GET MY BOOK"
*Click "My Computer"
*Click "Download MOBI File" OR "Download EPUB File"
I tried on another browser than the one I'm logged-in with and it asked for me to sign-in if I tried to email the book or read in the cloud, but not if I downloaded it as above.
Suzi wrote: "I tried to access several different "free" books [including that one] and Bookfunnel required an email address, so I didn't go further, as I do not want to give them my information.Possibly once you have signed up with Bookfunnel, you don't have to give the author an email address."
The book I linked (Glam) has never required signing up for anything or providing an email address to download the book in mobi or epub format. If you choose the option of having them email you the book, that is your choice not a requirement on their end. If you choose the option of reading in the "Cloud" you are choosing to open and read it on their server/site which requires an account just like the Kindle Cloud reader does on Amazon. Neither reading it in their cloud or having them email the book to you is a requirement of obtaining the book for free. I can screenrecord the entire process of downloading the ebooks both on a desktop as well as ereader & tablet if you require further proof that no account or email registration is required.
Also see -> https://authors.bookfunnel.com/help/a...
Miriam wrote: "I just wanted to get staff confirmation that those books that are listed as free through Bookfunnel, without the subscription requirement, are by GR standards considered books."Forgive me, however, I'm a bit confused. I have received e-books via BookFunnel (as well as other daily e-newsletters that give a heads up on free and/or discounted e-books) - *why* would these *not* be considered books/e-books? They are no different than the books you get via Amazon or anywhere else you get e-books. They come in 3 formats: .mobi, .epub and .pdf. I don't see (understand) why where you are getting from them would make them *not* a book, by any standard? If an author chooses to put up a book for free - even temporarily - for whatever reason, then why "where" it's coming from (outside of illegally received, like a torrent), matter?
Per Goodreads policy the following are not considered to be books:Stories only available via subscription to a newsletter, or via a website that requires registration
help.goodreads.com/s/article/Libraria...
Most of the books available through Bookfunnel (and the similar site Prolific Works) are only available with a newsletter subscription. So those have been deemed as not valid records under Goodreads policy.
Miriam wrote: "Per Goodreads policy the following are not considered to be books:Stories only available via subscription to a newsletter, or via a website that requires registration..."
I guess I'm seeing/understanding "stories" and "books/e-books" as two completely different things. Books are a complete "entity", such as a print book, or a complete e-book (such as one in .mobi or .epub format). I see a story like a short story - or like they show as a web-comic, etc - and not necessarily "complete" like a book/e-book -- especially where most of the other items listed as "non books" are things such as incomplete works, comic strips, etc .... for example, a story on a blog post (encompassing one post), would be a story, and I could see that *not* being a book.
And while yes, some times you get the message on BF about signing up to an author's newsletter, it is an option and not a requirement, and even if you opt-in, you can opt-out at *any* time (including immediately upon signing up), and signing up for a newsletter does not make you *required* to read the book and/or review it. There is also an option to have the e-book(s) emailed to you or to direct download to your computer/device.
That being said, I'm not sure most of the GR readers (especially non-Librarians) are even aware of this. I've been on this site for a few years now and this is new to me. Personally, I'm not too keen on it. I still see these as valid books, regardless of how/where/under what circumstances - outside of illegally - it was obtained. Authors want/need to get their names and info on their books "out there" and newsletters are one of the better ways of doing it.
Just a note: Out of complete curiosity, I checked the FAQs on both BookFunnel and Prolific Works (which used to go by the name InstaFreebie) ....On both sites, they state - and recommend - that *optional opt-in* for author's newsletters be used, to comply with the GDPR/EU requirements.
The links:
BookFunnel: https://authors.bookfunnel.com/help/g...
ProlificWorks: https://support.prolificworks.com/art...
in fact, PW writes:
Based on our understanding of the EU's GDPR legislation, we strongly recommend that authors use optional opt-in. The new regulations require that a service is "freely given", and we believe that requiring a reader to give you information in exchange for goods or services (i.e., your ebooks) would be in violation of this policy.
BF's blog post on GDPR and how they are going forth, including how their lawyers are advising:
https://blog.bookfunnel.com/2018/gdpr...
Also, BF states they do NOTHING with the email addresses they obtain from visitors/readers on their site:
https://authors.bookfunnel.com/help/w...
And PW states they ask for name and address because some books are DRM-protected so in order for the reader to be able to access the book and attend to the DRM, it needs to use name and email address to verify:
https://support.prolificworks.com/art...
Goodreads has already made a ruling on books that require a newsletter subscription, they are against policy.Those are the books that have often have the check box with
"I understand that I'm signing up for [Author Name]'s email newsletter, and I'm free to unsubscribe at any time." that make it an opt-in option.
I'm not asking about those books.
This thread is specifically for clarification about those books that do not require a newsletter subscription and are available for download through Bookfunnel.
Bookfunnel does add the books to your "library" if you are signed in when you get the book (newsletter subscription or not). This gives readers access to the books through their app as well. But on the books I tested, I didn't need to be logged-in or give my email to download the books (the books didn't add to my library, but I did have them downloaded to my computer).
Mod
It does appear that some BookFunnel ebooks are straight downloads, with no signup required. Those should meet our criteria to stay.
Thanks Rivka.Follow-up question: Prolific Works also has books that are available for download without the newsletter sign up requirement, but do require you be registered with Prolific Works. Do those meet the criteria to stay?
Mod
No. See emphasis.
Thanks, that's how I read it as well, but I wanted to make sure
Since this topic was spurred by me requesting that two deletion requests not be deleted because they were in fact eligible to be on the site, I have a follow up question.My two posts in the Please delete this book! (pt. 62) [Anyone requests; leave deletions for superlibrarians] topic requesting that specific deletion requests msg #123 & msg #456 not be carried out, were deleted themselves. How exactly is someone supposed to prevent a valid book record from being deleted when they aren't allowed to respond to a deletion request by providing supporting evidence that it shouldn't be deleted?
There are currently unprocessed deletion requests for books (including the two I pointed out on Feb 5) that should not be removed and I've found more have been added today. Clearly relying on the original requester to prevent valid books from being removed from the database (by updating their own posts and any librarian notes if applicable) is not sufficient.
Tal,I think your message numbers are off. #123 from that thread is a list of messages I was working on and #456 was a comment from Rivka. Beyond that, if there was a specific record you think was deleted in error, you can contact support (we can't discuss them here).
Librarian notes are the best way for us to know that the book was legitimate in this situation.
I've been double checking wherever possible before I delete the books, but the sooner we get notes in place the better the chance we correctly identify the books as valid (especially if the original release of the book was not, like with the Prolific Works listings).
If anyone else has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
Only suggestion I have is maybe the threads could be shorter (500 posts)
Miriam wrote: "Tal,I think your message numbers are off. #123 from that thread is a list of messages I was working on and #456 was a comment from Rivka. Beyond that, if there was a specific record you think was..."
LOL, sorry, the #123 & #456 were made up to illustrate that I replied to specific posts. I have my original (since deleted) replies referencing the real comment #'s but didn't dare post the actual msg #'s again as it appears to be taboo, though not stated anywhere in the rules. Because of the frequent OT post deletions in that topic, the msg #'s themselves often change but comment links or quoted replies will always retain the relevant context necessary to the discussion.
Miriam wrote: "Librarian notes are the best way for us to know that the book was legitimate in this situation."
And how does a non-librarian add a librarian note to a book record? Would I not have to request such a thing by posting it here and explain why it's necessary by linking/quoting the delete request I'm trying to prevent from being completed?
Miriam wrote: "I've been double checking wherever possible.."
And that is appreciated, however you're not the only super who handles those requests. What process is in place to guarantee that the next super is going to double check the same things, or even know they should? Frankly, the burden of double checking should be on the user submitting the original deletion request before they even post it. Just requesting the deletion of a work should require a pretty high bar of due diligence.
Speaking as someone who's cataloged and maintained thousands of digital books (for download) and digital book records across multiple sites in the M/M romance genre over the last 7 years, I can tell you that just because a book once was or is even currently available via newsletter/giveaway doesn't mean it was never (in the past) available any other way. Or that it isn't currently available any other way somewhere else. Not every newsletter freebie is "exclusive", in the past or the present.
1. Thank you for clarifying about the post numbers. 2. If a non-librarian needs a note added to a book, I would recommend starting a new thread in the Book Issues folder requesting such (I would avoid a bunch of books in one post, but you could do one one author if it's not more than a few books).
3. If you think edits are being made against policy, I would contact staff. As volunteers we have no insights and no way to check (also, we don't discuss them in this group for privacy reasons).
I can't speak for what another librarian does or does not do. I can only speak for my own actions.
4. You mention a specific genre. Those are not the only ones that are being removed for being against policy (and not normally the bulk of the ones I deal with). There just happen to be a lot of them added (against policy) at the beginning of the year due to a mass giveaway so we're seeing more of them right now. I happen to own (and have read most of) the books from that (and other such) giveaway(s). If we have some indication the books were released in a way that makes them valid, they aren't deleted.
Miriam wrote: "1. Thank you for clarifying about the post numbers. You're welcome.
Miriam wrote: "2. If a non-librarian needs a note added to a book, I would recommend starting a new thread in the Book Issues folder requesting such (I would avoid a bunch of books in one post, but you could do one one author if it's not more than a few books)."
So, you're saying I could repost my requests to not delete books x, y & z by posting something like this:
me: [Book link] has been targeted for deletion (or merge) and here's why it should not happen...appropriate supporting evidence....please add librarian note so that a valid book record is not removed.
And that these requests won't just get deleted again?
Miriam wrote: "3. If you think edits are being made against policy, I would contact staff. ..."
Yes, I have been doing just that for many years now. I don't expect you to be able to do anything about the actions of other librarians, other than hopefully to help proactively prevent unnecessary harm to user shelves when possible with your response to my question above.
Miriam wrote: "4. You mention a specific genre. Those are not the only ones that are being removed for being against policy (and not normally the bulk of the ones I deal with). There just happen to be a lot of them added (against policy) at the beginning of the year due to a mass giveaway so we're seeing more of them right now. I happen to own (and have read most of) the books from that (and other such) giveaway(s). If we have some indication the books were released in a way that makes them valid, they aren't deleted."
I mention a specific genre because those are the books that I can identify at a glance as valid GR book records or not. I'm also very aware of the Winter Wonderland giveaway fiasco and I actually started the process of trying to clean it up on Jan 1, a few hours after I found out a member of my group had added them all earlier that day. None of the deletion requests I'm asking how to prevent in this topic have anything to do with that giveaway though. These are all older works that have been around for 1-5+ years. The problem with deletion requests coming from users who aren't very familiar with the genre is they often rely on superficial info that is misleading, mistaking an incomplete edition as invalid or a duplicate rather than researching to find the missing info and populate the record.
@Miriam, thank you for the new librarian notes on the books I posted about in early Feb. Your suggestion to post those types of deletion challenges/objections in the Book Issues folder doesn't seem... viable though. It was a good suggestion, just one that won't work in this particular group it seems, based on the (now deleted) hostile response that any challenge/objection/question of a public deletion request is akin to a personal insult. I will work within the M/M community to see if some sort of neighborhood book watch can be created to fortify the genre records and create a type of early warning system for books targeted for deletion. Appreciate your good faith efforts at solving a real problem though, have a good one!
[Link removed]
I just wanted to get staff confirmation that those books that are listed as free through Bookfunnel, without the subscription requirement, are by GR standards considered books.
Example Book: https://dl.bookfunnel.com/zh7nxv68h7
GR Listing: Glam