Japanese Light Novel Book Club discussion
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02/2015 Another
Allison wrote: "Fanta wrote: "Allison wrote: "how we could convince parents of prospective English majors that the humanities are just as useful as business and technical educations. ^^;"Eventually, did you find how to do?"
We kind of had a script to go from, but it involved bringing everyone else down so much that I didn't like it. The basic message, though, was to tell everyone that humanities majors develop critical thinking and empathy skills that corporate America wants and that the other majors don't have.
I feel like it involves saying that the technical and business majors are not well rounded people, which is uncomfortable, and that the pay scales for humanities will be equal, which is a flat out lie.
I do tend to be in Reiko's school of thought on it, though- as long as you understand what you're getting into, you should do what makes you happy. I think that's a really sweet moment, when she lectures him and then flips over to that. "
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA, humanities focus way more on memorization then critical thinking compared to the technical majors. If you love something and work smart at it you can make a living just you shouldn't go to college not knowing what you plan to do in your life you should have a clear goal and reason on why you are going to college and you will be successful no matter how silly your degree is. A big saying in engineering at least, probably other fields too, is work smart not hard.
Allison wrote: "The basic message, though, was to tell everyone that humanities majors develop critical thinking and empathy skills that corporate America wants and that the other majors don't have. "I see. Any subject has its usefulness, doesn't it? I majored physics, and I think it developed my ability to understand logic.
I read Chapter 4 & 5.I wonder if Misaki Mei and Fujioka Misaki were conjoined twin sisters. Mei said that she liked conjoined twin dolls best, and she also said after the exam that they had been more linked before.
Mod
So I'd say the character on the cover is Mei Misaki, but something doesn't match up. The right eye is blue like the doll's eyes, but the left (you can see it on the inside flap) is green, not the "jet-black" described in the book. Not only that, they're actually reversed on the cover (the left eye's the doll eye according to the book).
I'm guessing that the artist just got it mixed up and that it's supposed to be Mei on the cover.
I've thought that the reason the girl on the cover has blue and green eyes is just to make atmosphere. :)Selena wrote: "you can see it on the inside flap"
I read this and then I remembered that English books are "left to right". Since Japanese books are "right to left", I think the left eye is on the back cover if the book is a Japanese edition (though in my divided books, vol.1 and vol.2, the left eye is on the cover of vol.2).
Does this title mean "Another person" or "Another thing" or etc? I think it means "Another person" since a person is on the cover. If so, the title could hint there is another person in this story. Doppelganger? (Is "Doppelganger" famous?)
Mod
(view spoiler)
I've heard about Doppelgangers, but I'm not sure if I know it because I'm a fountain of useless information or if it's common knowledge in the US.
I just read chapter 4, but since I know what's coming in 5, I don't feel so bad jumping into the discussion. ^^; (view spoiler)
So, I just read five, too- when I first read this, I was subbing for a class doing exams, and it was a really odd experience! They were pretty relaxed tests, because the junior high here is not very intense, but I still felt kind of tense after reading it, like, "Be careful in the hall, kids!"It was strange to remember all that so clearly! I didn't even think about it when watching the anime.
Also, Akazawa seems so minor in this version of the story!
Mod
I've noticed that with a lot of characters versus the anime.
Part of it is probably that, with the visual medium of anime, they could show characters interacting in the background even while the main focus is on Sakakibara talking with someone else. We see a lot more of the characters and thus they seem more important.
They can't really do that in the novel without it seeming like things get bogged down in the details.
EDIT: I actually looked it up. The Another wiki says Akazawa was probably given a more prominent role in an attempt to balance out a heavily male cast.
Chapter 6 finished.I feel the story is slow. lol
But Mizuno san ... T_T (though it's not sure that she died yet.)
Whenever I see a dead person curse people and kill, I wonder why the killed people don't revenge the dead person. It's unbalanced.
Mod
Not quite sure I understand. I don't think killed people can get revenge for anyone since they're kind of dead too?
I agree that this book moves kind of slow, especially compared to the anime. I wish they'd just tell Sakakibara what's going on so I can ask the question I'm dying to ask everyone. XD
Selena wrote: "I don't think killed people can get revenge for anyone since they're kind of dead too?"It seems to me that if the curse exists, the person, who is the source of that and cursing people, still exists as a ghost or something too. That's why people in some stories would be kind to the ghost and pray that it would go to heaven (or nirvana) to remove its curse. If ghosts are in the world, people killed by the course exist as a ghost too. Why don't ghosts of killed people revenge the ghost who killed them? If they did, the curse was removed. — I meant. (I'm sorry if I were talking about strange things. :)
Mod
I think it's addressed later if my memory of the anime is correct (and if the anime didn't change something), so I don't want to spoil anything. ;)
Selena wrote: "I think I get it now. You're saying that why don't the ghosts get revenge on the ghost/curse that killed them in this book by making it go to heaven?"Yes, this book, and other books that have a theme of a curse too.
Don't everyone have the thought of Jobutsu (成仏)?
EDIT: Jobutsu is that a dead person or a ghost goes to heaven with no regret and sadness. The ghost with regret and sadness could creates a curse. To remove the curse, people often help it Jobutsu or make it Jobutsu.
Mod
Ghosts don't cause "curses" so much in the US as much as they haunt people and/or places and cause minor irritations like moving things or wandering around. Poltergeists, meanwhile, are malevolent spirits (that are not always "ghosts" of dead people) that are a lot more dangerous.
As for going to heaven, US ghost culture's more influenced by Christianity, and so only "good" people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. Ghosts that wander the earth are the in between ones stuck in purgatory and/or demons (religious version) or simply "energy" stuck to places or things after ("sciency" version).
It's kind of hard to explain since I don't quite get it myself. Especially since I don't particularly believe in ghosts and so just find them interesting from a sociological standpoint (so I might be overgeneralizing). ^^;;;
I see. From your comment, I had the impression that curses little relate to ghosts (or souls or spirits) and that curses independently (or solo) exist. Then generally how do people remove or counter curses? Are curses minor in horror fiction?
Mod
Fanta wrote: "Jobutsu is that a dead person or a ghost goes to heaven with no regret and sadness. The ghost with regret and sadness could creates a curse. To remove the curse, people often help it Jobutsu or make it Jobutsu. "Well, there is the concept of "unfinished business" in Western fiction, where a ghost is haunting people because it has some unmet goal or something like that. I remember that most clearly in the Casper: The Friendly Ghost movie (which should tell you how classy I am), but have seen it in a lot of other movies and TV shows, too.
I've not seen the Casper, but I know it because the commercial was on TV before. I saw Wikipedia, and found it was the movie in 1995. 20 years ago! Time flies...Allison wrote: "Well, there is the concept of "unfinished business" in Western fiction, where a ghost is haunting people because it has some unmet goal or something like that."
I can understand "unfinished business", I think it is translated to "Miren" in Japanese. I learned that ghosts often haunt people but rarely curse in the West.
Finished chapter 7.Classmates and teachers hid something from Koichi as ever while people died. I feel like they will keep on doing to the end of vol.1.
Mikami was absent, she might have already died. Reiko had a headache, so I have a foreboding that she will be killed too. I wonder this story ends happily. The possibility seems remote...
Mod
In my experience, Japanese horror tends to have happier endings than American horror.
In American horror, you tend to have one person (usually one of the hot girls) who's gone insane still around so they can "tell their story" to the director of the movie (and thus, supposedly, lending to the "based on a true story" crap they almost always put at the beginning of those things to make them scarier). That, or everyone dies and there's a video camera left behind like in Blair Witch Project to lend a "documentary" feel. Oh, and the smart one almost always is one of the first to go (why I would never survive an American horror movie, lol). Death hits everything that moves and is always extremely brutal (like zombies eating your face off).
In Japanese horror (in my experience), more people tend to survive to the end, and usually the guy who figures it out is among them. It's hard to get into a Japanese horror situation (usually it's slightly moralistic, like follow the rules and no one gets hurt, or some version of fate which most Americans don't seem to have a sense of), and when you do, it's more like a puzzle to solve and there's a way to survive it.
Take Fatal Frame II, for example. If they hadn't gone to the village (against the rules to go there, also somewhat fated to), they wouldn't have gotten into that mess. But Mayu was able to fight the ghosts easily enough with a camera and solve puzzles to get out of there (a way to survive it and the smart one survives). Of course, that's a video game so it's a bit different than say a movie.
Not going to say no one dies in Japanese horror (Another's proved that a false assumption already lol), but more tend to survive to the end than US horror.
I've watched Blair Witch Project. I know Fatal Frame, though I haven't played it and known Zero (零) is called Fatal Frame. :)As you say, Japanese horror fiction might be like a puzzle. I can't remember the fiction with no way to survive. I think this story has it too.
Finished chapter 8. The story moved! It seems odd to me that even teachers ignore the student.If this were not a horror novel but a detective or mystery one, I could imagine that this year wasn't the year where things happened and someone killed people and made it look as if the curse did. Ayatsuji is famous for his mystery novels in Japan.
Mod
I was wondering what the Japanese one said at one point. First sentence of the last paragraph of chapter 8, section 2, in English it says, "To reconsider the alienness ( = "enigma") surrounding Mei Misaki..."
Does the Japanese edition have anything like that ( = "enigma")? Is that a reading for kanji that got clumsily translated?
Selena wrote: "Does the Japanese edition have anything like that ( = "enigma")?"Yes, it does, but I don't think it's a reading for kanji. At that point, the Japanese edition says, (quote, in Japanese)
いやおうなく、ぼくは改めて考えてみざるをえなかったのだ。五月の初め、この三年三組の一員になった当初から感じつづけてきた、見崎鳴を巡る違和感 = 「謎」の一つ一つ、あるいはその全体について。
I think this "見崎鳴を巡る違和感 = 「謎」" is translated to "the alienness ( = "enigma") surrounding Mei Misaki".
If I translate this part (XD), it's this:
I could not help but reconsider the strange feelings ( = mystery) surrounding Mei Misaki that I had been feeling since I had participated in Class 3 at the beginning of May.
EDIT: Grammartical mistakes >_<
Mod
It's not common, but we don't feel strange.We use 「」 when we want to emphasize words, for example,
(of course we use it when we write conversation too.)
私は「パン」を食べた。
I ate BREAD. (Also in italics, I ate bread.)
And then sometimes we use "=" when we want to say that words are equivalent to another words or when we want to say in other words, for example,
私はパン = 小麦を摂取した。
I took bread. In other words, I took wheat.
I think using "=" is not formal, but sometimes we can see it on textbooks, newspapers, and other writing.
Which are natural in English?
To reconsider the alienness ( = "enigma") surrounding Mei Misaki >
To reconsider the alienness (or enigma) surrounding Mei Misaki
To reconsider the alienness, in other words, enigma surrounding Mei Misaki
To reconsider the alienness — enigma surrounding Mei Misaki
I just read chapters 6-8, catching up after some spring break laziness. ^^; I always really like Mizuno, so that part of it wasn't extremely fun to read, and that last half of chapter 8 is such an exposition dump! Overall, though, I still admire the atmosphere and setting in this novel. It's slow paced, but always has a nice feeling of uneasiness.
About chapter 8, though-- (view spoiler)
Allison wrote: "last half of chapter 8 is such an exposition dump! "Everyone had never told Koichi, so chapter 8 had to pay for it. :)
At chapter 8, section 1, how does the book write about Akazawa?
My book says that she looks like an Onna Bancho (a female boss or leader of students in school, especially violent). By any chance, queen bee? (I've heard Jock, Queen bee, Nerd , etc, and there is school hierarchy in the US. Is it true?)
Fanta wrote: At chapter 8, section 1, how does the book write about Aka..."I have the digital copy from Yen Press, which calls her a "bandit queen," but I think "queen bee" might be appropriate, too.
I remember reading that section in a classroom where an 8th grade girl was really chewing out her classmates, so mean, for moving the desks in a fashion that would displease the regular teacher, so until I saw the anime, I just pictured Akazawa as that student. XD I think the age is the same- Fanta and Selena, do you know if that's the case (8th grade US, middle school grade 3 in Japan)?
But yeah, the school hierarchy is *definitely* there.
I just noticed it, your photo is Akazawa, isn't it? I've not watched the anime but seen the images. Now I see them again, Akazawa of the anime looks like a typical image of tsundere (bunches and mighty eyes).Allison wrote: "I have the digital copy from Yen Press, which calls her a "bandit queen," but I think "queen bee" might be appropriate, too. "
Thank you! "Bandit queen" is an interesting translation. :)
In Japan, generally school is as follows:
elementary school, 7 to 12 (6 years)
junior high school, 13 to 15 (3 years)
high school, 16 to 18 (3 years)
If middle school is equivalent to junior high school, 8th grade in the US is middle school grade 2 in Japan.
Allison wrote: "the school hierarchy is *definitely* there. "
If Another were set in the US, Akazawa could be a cheerleader...
Fanta wrote: "I just noticed it, your photo is Akazawa, isn't it?"Yeah, I switched it to Akazawa after reading yesterday- I usually don't like that character type, but I respect how she acts under extreme stress. She's really tough.
Fanta wrote: "If middle school is equivalent to junior high school, 8th grade in the US is middle school grade 2 in Japan."
Thank you! I have a lot of trouble keeping that stuff straight. Is there a preschool/kindergarten system, too? 7 seems like a late age to start school!
Fanta wrote: "If Another were set in the US, Akazawa could be a cheerleader..."
Not just any cheerleader- she'd be head of the squad and chew out her teammates if they failed any given routine. All other schools would rue the day they faced off against Grade 3, Class 3's cheerleading squad (if enough of them survived the curse to make it to the competition.)
Allison wrote: "Is there a preschool/kindergarten system, too? 7 seems like a late age to start school!"Yes, there is, but it's not compulsory (high school is too).
Allison wrote: " (if enough of them survived the curse to make it to the competition.)"
You say horrible things. :)
I suddenly think that school should not have made Class 3. Mei said that it was not use moving the classroom. If so, school should make Class 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6, or if third class were cursed, they could make only Class 1 and 2. Is life more important?
Mod
I've also heard another one, but I hesitate to say it because it might be spoilers (I haven't finished this chapter, so I'm not sure if they talk about it yet).
Mod
Here's my question: Why'd they stick the transfer student in Class 3 in the first place? This causes all kinds of communication problems (if 2nd years going into Class 3-3 hear the story, why put the transfer student who didn't hear the story there?).
Selena wrote: "Here's my question: Why'd they stick the transfer student in Class 3 in the first place? This causes all kinds of communication problems (if 2nd years going into Class 3-3..."I assumed it was part of the curse that he got stuck there, because of his mother's presence in the original class, but that's not even alluded to anywhere else. ^^; I think my brain just filled that in.
Koichi could be the dead. He has the trouble with his lung. Sometimes we can see the story that actually the protagonist had died (and it is usually explained in near the end of the book).
Mod
Mod
If you already know from the anime, manga, or reading ahead, you're not allowed to "guess." ;) That includes me.
Selena wrote: "So now that we know about the "extra," I'm curious to know who you all think it is.If you already know from the anime, manga, or reading ahead, you're not allowed to "guess." ;) That includes me."
I can't guess, either, but the last chapter of book one was so effective-- I know quite well who I was left thinking it was. I really remember being unsettled by the phone conversation between Sakakibara and his father, and infuriated that I had to wait for book 2!
In the omnibus, is there a division between novels, or does it just jump to the next chapter? I'm still using my Kindle copies for the group read.
The Japanese books I have are two books, book 1 and book 2, and book 1 ends with chapter 9 and book 2 begins with chapter 10.I wonder who is the "extra", I'm suspicious about all characters who have their name in the book. (But it would be funny too, if a character who suddenly was named near the end of book 2 were the "extra". XD)
I have two questions about English.
What does the book call the measure "ignoring one student"? Mei said the words at the end of chapter 8, and then they may be appear often. Charm? Superstition? (In Japanese, it is "omajinai" and the kanji means "curse".)
And, Mei talks to her mother politely, is it described? How does the book describe?
Mod
Ignoring Mei is referred to as a "talisman," if you mean the word that's always in bold print. Also referred to as a "countermeasure," but that's never in bold.
English is kind of tricky when it comes to speaking politely. It's not like in Japanese where you use different grammars and such. I guess the way she talks in English is more "distant" than "polite," but Sakakibara asks her why she's "so polite" with her mom as he's leaving. I guess this is one of those "lost in translation" type things. It happens a lot.
Talisman! I get one thing again, thank you! And thank you for "lost in translation" too.Selena wrote: "rules of a mystery"
By any chance, do you talk about Knox's ten commandments and Van Dine's twenty rules? Are they famous?
Why is Mei convinced that she is not the extra? She said that the extra itself couldn't know it. In other words, the extra doesn't remember dying. If so, the reason she's convinced could be that she remembers dying or she thinks so.
Mod
Ah spoilers... I know too much, so I can't comment on why Mei is convinced she's not the extra. That's something that isn't brought up until much later.
Yeah! By the way, what will happen from now on? Since Koichi is ignored, will he play pranks on his classmates? :)I expect his counterattack or revolution because the story wouldn't move without it. If I were him, what would I do?
Mod
Anyone else find it interesting that Sakakibara's and his dad's memories seem to differ on the last time he was in Yomi? I don't think that one was in the anime.
Actually the things related to that was written in chapter 1, section 2. He couldn't remember it for some reason then. Since he has trouble with his lung, memory loss and also transferred to the cursed class, he is poor. :)
Japanese Light Novel Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Belle (other topics)Eyes Like Stars (other topics)
Blackbringer (other topics)
Eventually, did you find how to do?"
We kind of had a script to go from, but it involved bringing everyone else down so much that I didn't like it. The basic message, though, was to tell everyone that humanities majors develop critical thinking and empathy skills that corporate America wants and that the other majors don't have.
I feel like it involves saying that the technical and business majors are not well rounded people, which is uncomfortable, and that the pay scales for humanities will be equal, which is a flat out lie.
I do tend to be in Reiko's school of thought on it, though- as long as you understand what you're getting into, you should do what makes you happy. I think that's a really sweet moment, when she lectures him and then flips over to that.