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The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (World War II Liberation Trilogy, #2)
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THE SECOND WORLD WAR > WE ARE OPEN - WEEK TEN - THE DAY OF BATTLE - March 16th ~ March 22nd - Chapter Nine: This World and the Next at Strife, The Bitchhead, "Man is Distinguished From the Beasts" (398-432) - No Spoilers

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message 1: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new) - added it

Jerome | 4287 comments Mod
Hello, Everyone,

For the week of March 16th - March 22nd, we are reading Chapter 9 - This World and the Next at Strife - The Bitchhead - "Man is Distinguished From the Beasts" - pages 398-432 of the book-The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy 1943-1944 by Rick Atkinson.

The tenth week's reading assignment is:

Week Ten- March 16th- March 22nd, 2015
Chapter Nine This World and the Next at Strife - The Bitchhead - "Man is Distinguished From the Beasts" - pages 398-432

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on January 12th

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.

This weekly thread will be opened up on March 16th

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Assisting Moderators Bryan, Kathy, Jerome and Jill.

Welcome,

~Jerome

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

The Day of Battle The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (World War II Liberation Trilogy, #2) by Rick Atkinson by Rick Atkinson Rick Atkinson

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary:

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Glossary - Part One- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary - Part Two - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary - Part Three - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography:

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

The Day of Battle The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (World War II Liberation Trilogy, #2) by Rick Atkinson by Rick Atkinson Rick Atkinson

Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 2: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new) - added it

Jerome | 4287 comments Mod
All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.


message 3: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new) - added it

Jerome | 4287 comments Mod
Everyone, for the week of March 16th - March 22nd we are reading Chapter Nine: This World and the Next at Strife, The Bitchhead, "Man is Distinguished From the Beasts"

The tenth week's reading assignment is:

Week Ten- March 16th- March 22nd, 2015
Chapter Nine: This World and the Next at Strife - The Bitchhead - "Man is Distinguished From the Beasts"

Chapter Overview and Summary:

PART THREE


Chapter Nine: The Murder Space

This World and the Next at Strife

The Germans fortify Monte Cassino, which the Allies plan to outflank. American and French troops begin the attack and are bogged down in a back-and-forth struggle. LTG Bernard Freyberg arrives at the front to head the breakthrough attempts.

The Bitchhead

Allied troops dig in at Anzio but remain exposed to German airpower. The Allies go on the offensive, while the Germans launch a counter-offensive only on Hitler's orders, with little to show for it due to superior American firepower. Clark resists pressure to sack General Lucas. Hitler reluctantly allows his commanders to go on the defensive.

"Man is Distinguished From the Beasts"

The cultural and artistic heritage of the Monte Cassino area poses some unconventional problems for Allied troops. American warplanes begin attacks in the area.


message 4: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Mar 18, 2015 05:37PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44167 comments Mod
This is the syllabus - there seems to be something awry with the way these were set up:

Week Ten - March 16th -March 22nd
Part Three - 7. A River and a Rock - The Show Must Go On - and 8. Perdition - “Something's Happening" and Through the Looking Glass - pages 351-385

Week Eleven - March 23rd - March 29th
Part Three - 8. Perdition - Jerryland and 9. The Murder Space -This World and the Next World at Strife - pages 385-412

Week Twelve - March 30th - April 5th
Part Three - 9. The Murder Space - The Bitchhead and "Man Is Distinguished from the Beasts" - pages 412-441

Week Thirteen - April 6th - April 12th
Part Four - 10 Four Horsemen - A Fairyland of Silver and Gold and The Weight of Metal - pages 445 - 473

Week Fourteen - April 13th - April 19th
Part Four - 10. Four Horsemen - Dragonflies in the Sun and 11. A Kettle of Grief - Dead Country and "Put the Fear of God into Them" and "You Are All Brave. You Are All Gentlemen" - pages 473-509

Week Fifteen - April 20th - April 26th
Part Four - 11. A Kettle of Grief - "On the Eve of Great Things" and 12. The Great Prize - Shaking Stars from the Heavens - pages 509-536

Week Sixteen - April 27th - May 3rd
Part Four - 12. The Great Prize - A Fifth Army Show - pages 536-555

Week Seventeen - May 4th - May 10th
Part Four - 12. The Great Prize - The Cuckoo's Song and Expulsion of the Barbarians - pages 555-576

Week Eighteen - May 11th - May 17th
Epilogue - pages 577-588

Week Nineteen - May 18th - 24th
Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts




message 5: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Mar 18, 2015 05:31PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44167 comments Mod
This is the Week Ten assignment:

Week Ten - March 16th -March 22nd
Part Three - 7. A River and a Rock - The Show Must Go On - and 8. Perdition - “Something's Happening" and Through the Looking Glass - pages 351-385



Vincent (vpbrancato) | 1245 comments Well I am almost three months behind so------

Is this for pigs 351- 385?

Lucas is the seemingly reasonable leader for the day - is it me or is Atkinson drawing judgements all the time (they seem to be good)

Lucas knew there was trouble coming.

Pg 366 Kesselring says Allies suffer "Salerno complex" - to want to have overwhelming power to use - is this similar to the Powell Doctrine?

I note that understanding for me is hindered by a lack of good maps. Atkinson does not to my mind provide good enough maps. The Historical Atlas of WW II that I am using is lacking too. The Italian campaign from Sicily to Rome gets 8 pages. This is out of 387 before the index - maybe this illustrates how long, difficult, and widely ranging this war was.

Pg 369 - para 5 - the LST 422 tragedy - grim - google "LST 422" if you want.

Lucas pg 372 para 1 & 2 - is Lucas a man to be cherished and honored?

Pg 375 para 4 - Alexander says "risks must be taken" - page 381 para 1 - ditto - I guess so but they can be calculated to be less costly.

Pg 382 Atkinson addresses racial discrimination - were the whites all victims of their upbringing and prejudices? It must have been so difficult for the blacks - at that time Negros. The only perk was that only 2 of 10 got to combat as opposed to 4 of 10 for the white troops.

The Historical Atlas of World War II by Alexander Swanston Alexander Swanston Alexander Swanston


message 7: by Bryan (new) - added it

Bryan Craig No worries, Vince, I am very behind, as well.

Don't forget to add (no photo) for an author with no photo:

The Historical Atlas of World War II by Alexander Swanston by Alexander Swanston (no photo)


Vincent (vpbrancato) | 1245 comments So now I think I am up to the appropriate pages for this section. Wondering why I am alone here

The fighting continues - it seems so difficult.

Pg 431 Clark notes the enemy "is quicker to the wire". It seems they are more ready and practiced to fight. Accomplished in six years with Hitler to 1939 and not overwhelmed yet by five years of war.

The interesting other note is the various nationalities and ethic groups represented by the Commonwealth troops.

The catastrophe, beyond the human suffering - both military and civilian - is the loss of Monte Cassino - the wanton loss and the sad fact that the allied leadership was pressured to accept hearsay and other fears. I can also understand how fears that additional allied troops could be lost was a goal that could not be overlooked. (Was this not the strong part of the reasoning to use the atomic bombs on Japan?) - The further sadness was the loss of civilian life and that the Germans had not used the Abbey - but easy for them to know that as they were there. - This seems to have been the sensibilities of some German officers.


message 9: by Bryan (last edited Jun 23, 2015 07:21AM) (new) - added it

Bryan Craig Keep it up, Vince, we lost a moderator on this book, I'm sorry to report. This is why it slowed down, but stay tuned. Our apologies.


message 10: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44167 comments Mod
That is true and the threads were not what they were supposed to be in set up. One of those volunteer situations which happens sometimes in unpaid situations (lol)


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