SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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The Book of Koli
Group Reads Discussions 2021
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"The Book of Koli" First Impressions *No Spoilers*
After the first chapter I thought the dialect was going to annoy me but I've gotten used to it really quickly and am enjoying discovering the world.
Second month in a row i'm going in completely blind. Got no idea what this is about. None. Even less than last month's sci-fi book. Not even gonna read the content warnings. All I know is that the author is apparently the same Mike Carey who writes for comics (and who also writes novels under that name as well.)
Read the first page and I wonder how I’ll feel about the dialect. Curious to hear from anyone that is listening to it.
i loved listening to it. but i also generally love dialect
Arrgh. My library is closed and doesn’t have this on Libby. I’m not sure I’m going to be able toRead it.
I suppose it’s worth a try. I can email them.
I started last night and read several chapters in. I am really liking the MC's voice (both dialect and personality), plus discovering the world as Koli tells us more about his life.
I am enjoying the dialect so much I actually read a couple of the chapters outloud... to myself... since I didn't spring for the audible on this one.
Meredith wrote: "I started last night and read several chapters in. I am really liking the MC's voice (both dialect and personality), plus discovering the world as Koli tells us more about his life."I echo these sentiments pretty much exactly! Not 100% sold yet, but really enjoy the voice of the main character.
@Lowell: I did this as well :).
I actually have huge problems with the dialect, maybe because I'm not a native English speaker. It took me 4 days to slog through 50 pages. The story is promising, but the process of reading is painful.
I could not take the dialect. :( I may attempt again at a later time when I feel more patient.
What kind of dialect are we talking about? :)I was going to wait to read this, because the finale is coming out in a couple of months, but I think I'll have to read it before this month's Virtual Book Club.
Anna wrote: "What kind of dialect are we talking about? :)."Basically, it's butchering English on purpose. Examples:
- the form "was" is used both in singular and plural
- past participle is replaced by some monstrous form of past form of the verb (for example, instead of "I have known", you will have "I have knowed").
TheNerdDaily: “There are deliberate spelling mistakes, and questionable grammar, as some words are written how they would be pronounced in his dialect. I think this might be because Koli is illiterate, as he doesn’t read books, and his stories are told out loud rather than written down. Because of this, I think The Book of Koli would be really good as an audiobook, as the reader could enjoy the story being told to them, rather than having to adjust to how it appears on the page. That being said, I settled into this after a handful of chapters, but I’m not certain everyone would.”
Wish i sampled it first to see how I feel about it, but i was impulsive i bought the ebook at full price last year lol!
yeah, he standardized the past tense and conjugates to be more in line with southern american, AAVE and Cockney dialects
ohhh there's typos too? i listened to it
OK thanks, I would probably have a problem eye-reading this, but I'm planning to audiobook, so I'm sure it'll be fine!
Grace wrote: "TheNerdDaily: “There are deliberate spelling mistakes, and questionable grammar, as some words are written how they would be pronounced in his dialect. I think this might be because Koli is illit..."
Yes, this worked really well as an audiobook. I didn't even realize it was a made up dialect. I thought it was just some version of one of the British dialects. As a US American I'm not super familiar with all their differences. And the reader has some kind of British accent. He also speaks SUPER slow. This audiobook was the first time I used the sped up reading feature, haha.
I had no problems eye-reading it. It reminded me a bit of pidgin English.
Allison wrote: "yeah, he standardized the past tense and conjugates to be more in line with southern american, AAVE and Cockney dialects"I was reading it in a deep Southern [US] accent but then switched to a northern English accent because of some place names... It wasn't working for me so I switched back to Southern US again, haha.
The Book of Koli is an great experience as an audiobook. The use of language, in my opinion, adds to his child like curiosity and limited exposure of the world at large. Then, there are sprinkles of wisdom that has stark contrasts with the presented language. I’m looking forward to the story as it unfolds and well as the group in depth discussion.
I think the dialect is an interesting narration choice and I think it makes sense, but as a non-native who has just started reading books in english last year, it slows my reading down quite a bit. Other than that I'm very curious to find out more about Koli's surroundings and what's going on with the world.
I was going to make a comment on the dialect but seems to be the talk of the town! Very strange reading for myself in that grammatical errors tend to bother me. By chapter four it had grown on me somewhat, not like the choker trees though.
I'm not finding the dialect challenging, though I can see how non-native English readers might be frustrated. I do find Koli's vocabulary strangely uneven in terms of education level.
The dialect isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be based on the above. I actually listened to the first chapter on audiobook, and my immediate reaction was "what dialect? The British accent?" There's a bit of slightly mangled grammar, not much else. I think understanding the world he describes will be more challenging. (Early on, in like the second chapter, he describes the gathering of wood as "catching wood", and my first thought was "that's an interesting way of describing the chopping down of a tree" but already it sounds like it's something else entirely, and that it's phrased that way because it could only be phrased that way.)
Joon wrote: "it's phrased that way because it could only be phrased that way."This is very much true, the more you read of Koli's world. These turns of phrase seem to be very, VERY meaningful.
It sounds like the print edition has some phonetic spelling too?But yes, the use of language is something likely for the spoiler thread, as it is important to the world.
The only phonetic spelling so far (I'm 20 pages in) is "would of/ could of" which I reaaally dislike but it makes sense that language would evolve in that way since it's already being used often nowadays. Other than that, it's just the verb changes and were/was, so it's very mild dialect-wise. Definitely not like some books written in pidgin or some vernacular which can be quite hard to read.I'm really enjoying Koli's voice and the world is intriguing. But I'm a sucker for that 'something has happened and the world has evolved differently'-trope. I'm curious to find out more, especially about how the society is structured.
Joon wrote: "Second month in a row i'm going in completely blind. Got no idea what this is about. None. Even less than last month's sci-fi book. Not even gonna read the content warnings. All I know is that th..."
I also went in completely blind. I'm now on Chapter 17. So far I'm enjoying it. It feels sort of slow paced but I like it so far.
Allison wrote: "i loved listening to it. but i also generally love dialect"I'm also listening and I've been enjoying the dialect. It seems subtle in a way that language would sort of naturally evolve over time.
EmilyLaura wrote: "I'm also listening and I've been enjoying the dialect. It seems subtle in a way that language would sort of naturally evolve over time.."Exactly that!
Allison wrote: "It sounds like the print edition has some phonetic spelling too?"Again, just based on the first couple chapters, I've spotted a few things spelled phonetically, or at least in a way where you might not even know listening to the audiobook that it was spelled differently.
Specifically it seems like the names of places will be a big factor here.
(As an example, because I don't want to make it a "discussion" more suited to the spoiler topic, because again I'm only on like page six, but very early on he talks about where he lives and what that place used to be called; he lives in "Ingland" which was at one time called, among other things, "Yewkay", and it immediately occurred to me that listeners may not even know something had just happened there.)
Joon wrote: "Allison wrote: "It sounds like the print edition has some phonetic spelling too?"Again, just based on the first couple chapters, I've spotted a few things spelled phonetically, or at least in a w..."
These are the same changes I was noticing and thought were very, VERY important. It's interesting (and slightly predictable, but is not something I would have thought of) that the textual details of dialect like this would be so smoothed over in the audiobook version.
makes me happy with my choice to eye-read this one, honestly.
I remember when I was listening to Flowers for Algeanon and the guy went from being slow to being smart. My audiobook in the car started jumping around chapters and I decided to eye read it on my iPad. The way he was talking to start with was really doing my head in with all the spelling mistakes and that which was equal to the level he was at but I still couldn’t handle it. Still haven’t gone back to it. I’ll give this one a try though.
I can see it both ways. The audio making it easier to take in the dialect and the written version showing the variant spellings. I am eye-reading and enjoying puzzling through the various terms as they come up.
I'm a few chapters in so far. Being an obstinate grammar Nazi, the intentional mis-speaking is a bit harsh on the nerves but I'll get past it. The story seems interesting enough. Genetically altered flora that turns on its creators... Hmmm. Scary.
careful of spoilers Jeanette! i agree though, the premise is very scary
50% in and still loving this book!
As much as I usually prefer audiobooks, this one definitely works better as an eye read. Half of the fun is figuring out which original words are meant by his onomatopoeic description.
This is one of those books that's difficult to get a strong start in.Between the dialect and the lack of explanation for a lot of concepts, I'm off to a really slow start.
Oh! Totally forgot about the place names re spelling. I chuckled over "Yewkay" and there are a few more that definitely need to be seen written down to get to the original word ("Count and Seal"). But I don't think it detracts from the story if you don't, unless you enjoy these kinds of linguistic puzzles.
Sebastian wrote: "Oh! Totally forgot about the place names re spelling. I chuckled over "Yewkay" and there are a few more that definitely need to be seen written down to get to the original word ("Count and Seal"). ...":) I loved the "Count and Seal" one. I had no idea what this was, until I read it aloud to myself. I love those kind of puzzles.
Gabi wrote: "Sebastian wrote: "Oh! Totally forgot about the place names re spelling. I chuckled over "Yewkay" and there are a few more that definitely need to be seen written down to get to the original word ("..."I guess those kind of hints would be totally lost on a non American reader? eg. me....
I find it interesting, but hard to read with the intentional grammar making the MC sound illiterate, which I guess is intentional considering the settings. Still, not sure how it would pass translations...
Anat wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Sebastian wrote: "Oh! Totally forgot about the place names re spelling. I chuckled over "Yewkay" and there are a few more that definitely need to be seen written down to get to the ori..."I wonder how they'd make that work in other languages or if those details would just get lost in translation. I think there aren't any editions except the English one yet, but it's also relatively new so maybe there will be translations in the future.
Anat wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Sebastian wrote: "Oh! Totally forgot about the place names re spelling. I chuckled over "Yewkay" and there are a few more that definitely need to be seen written down to get to the ori..."I was completely confused every time the "Count and Seal" came up in the book so far. Only reading the comments above finally cleared that up for me. So yeah, it seems some stuff will be lost on us, non-native English speakers.
About 2/3 through now. A good read. I really like the story. The only thing that annoys me is the approach where the MC states "I did some really bad things" which turn out not to be so bad once the reader learns what they are. That plot device seems a little overused as of late.Also, there is nothing really really new here, it is just a good adventure story. Heading for a 4 star rating right now, but if I see some awesome plot twists, then maybe it can reach for a five.
I still don't get Count and Seal. I tried reading it aloud. Not helping. Most of the rest Is it Council? Sorry if I am giving it away, but I am just not sure....
Some content warnings for those who want them: (view spoiler)[ body horror, including eyes. harm and death to children, self-immolation, loss of loved ones, reference to child and sexual abuse, violent transphobia, religion/cults. (hide spoiler)]