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The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (World War II Liberation Trilogy, #2)
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THE SECOND WORLD WAR > WE ARE OPEN - WEEK FIVE - THE DAY OF BATTLE - February 9th - February 15th - Chapter Four: "Risks Must Be Calculated Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots, The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast, ...etc. (179-226) - No Spoilers

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message 1: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (last edited Feb 17, 2015 02:02PM) (new) - added it

Jerome | 4351 comments Mod
Hello, Everyone,

For the week of February 9th - February 15th, we are reading Chapter 4- "Risks Must Be Calculated - Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots - The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast - The Moan of Lost Souls - pages 179-226 of the book-The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy 1943-1944 by Rick Atkinson.

The fifth week's reading assignment is:

Week Five- February 9th- February 15th, 2015
Chapter Four ~ February 9th ~ February 15th - "Risks Must Be Calculated - Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots - The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast - The Moan of Lost Souls - pages 179-226

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book is being kicked off on January 12th

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.

This weekly thread will be opened up on February 9th

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Assisting Moderators Bryan, Kathy, Jerome and Jill.

Welcome,

~Jerome

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

The Day of Battle The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (World War II Liberation Trilogy, #2) by Rick Atkinson by Rick Atkinson Rick Atkinson

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary:

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Glossary - Part One- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary - Part Two - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary - Part Three - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography:

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

The Day of Battle The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (World War II Liberation Trilogy, #2) by Rick Atkinson by Rick Atkinson Rick Atkinson

Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 2: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new) - added it

Jerome | 4351 comments Mod
All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.


message 3: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (last edited Feb 17, 2015 02:03PM) (new) - added it

Jerome | 4351 comments Mod
Everyone, for the week of February 9th - February 15th, we are reading Chapter 4- "Risks Must Be Calculated - Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots - The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast - The Moan of Lost Souls.

The fifth week's reading assignment is:

Week Five - February 2nd - February 8th
Chapter Four - "Risks Must Be Calculated - Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots - The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast - The Moan of Lost Souls - pages 179-226

Chapter Overview and Summary:

Chapter 4: Salerno - "Risks Must Be Calculated - Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots - The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast - The Moan of Lost Souls

Part Four


Salerno

"Risks Must Be Calculated"

Montogmery, irritated at his advice being ignored, his assignment to a supporting role, and lack of strategic guidance, arrives in Italy. Mark Clark takes command of Fifth Army for the landing at Salerno.

Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots

Italy continues to make diplomatic overtures to the Allies following Mussolini's arrest and eventually surrenders. In response, German troops occupy Rome.

The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast

Allied troops invade Salerno to strong German resistance. Both sides flood reinforcements into the area.

The Moan of Lost Souls

German troops deploy new weapons against the invasion fleet as General Clark disembarks. German troops strongly contest the American landings.


Adelle | 232 comments One of the main reasons I have been drawn to The Liberation Trilogy is the language. Atkinson so often paints such a vivid word picture.

"General Montgomery sipped his morning tea in a seaside olive orchard and scanned the first reports from the Eighth Army's vanguard, now poking through the battered streets of Reggio di Calabria on the opposite shore" (179).


"Women with scarlet petticoats beneath black skirts glided through the little villages" (181).

Sentences like that help me think of Montgomery, etc., as actual human beings, not just names from history.



For me, reading, the war is in many way more horrible because I realize these are individual human beings, not just statistics.

The descriptions of the fighting men, brings home to me---much more viscerally-- the incredible effort and sacrifice of those young men. The book makes me more appreciative of the sacrifices that were made. The cost of freedom.


message 5: by Bryan (new) - added it

Bryan Craig I'm a little behind, but I had to post about the USS Savannah and the missile Fritz-X. I never knew the Germans had this technology.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_X


message 6: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44207 comments Mod
That is OK Bryan - I think everybody is playing catch up. I am in learning mode and reading mode myself.


message 7: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44207 comments Mod
Folks this is the whole syllabus:

The Syllabus for:

The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy 1943-1944

Week One - January 12th - January 18th 2015
Prologue and Part One-1.Across the Middle Sea -Forcing the World Back to Reason - pages 1-46

Week Two - January 19th - January 25th
Part One - 1. Across the Middle Sea - Calypso' Island and The Horses of the Sun and Death of Glory and Part Two The Burning Shore - pages 46-91

Week Three - January 26th - February 1st
Part One -2 The Burning Shore - The Land of the Cyclops and The Loss of Irrecoverable Hours and "Tonight Wear White Pajamas" and "The Dark World is Not Far From Us" - pages 91-121

Week Four - February 2nd - Februrary 8th
Part One -3. An Island Redoubt - "Into Battle with Stout Hearts" and How I Love Wars and Snaring the Head Devil and Fevers of an Unknown Origin and A Great Grief and In A Place Like This - pages 125-175

Week Five - February 9th - February - 15th
Part Two -4.- Salerno - “Risks Must Be Calculated" and Plots, Counterplots, and Cross-plots and The Stillest Shoes the World Could Boast and The Moan of Lost Souls - pages 179-227

Week Six - February 16th - February 22rd
Part Two - 4.Salerno - A Portal Win and Part Two- 5. Corpse of the Siren- "I Give You Naples and "Watch Where You Step and Have No Curiosity at All" and The Mountainous Hinterland - pages 227-263

Week Seven - February 23rd - March 1st
Part Two - 5. Corpse of the Siren - The Mountainous Hinterland and "The Entire World Was Burning" and Part Two - 6. Winter - The Archangel Michael, Here and Everywhere - pages 265-293

Week Eight - March 2nd - March 8th
Part Two - 6. Winter - "A Tank Too Big for the Village Square" and A Gangster's Battle and Too Many Gone West - pages 293-318

Week Nine - March 9th - March 15th
Part Three - 7. A River and a Rock - Colonel Warden Makes a Plan and "Nothing Was Right Except the Courage" - pages 322-350

Week Ten - March 16th -March 22nd
Part Three - 7. A River and a Rock - The Show Must Go On - and 8. Perdition - “Something's Happening" and Through the Looking Glass - pages 351-385

Week Eleven - March 23rd - March 29th
Part Three - 8. Perdition - Jerryland and 9. The Murder Space -This World and the Next World at Strife - pages 385-412

Week Twelve - March 30th - April 5th
Part Three - 9. The Murder Space - The Bitchhead and "Man Is Distinguished from the Beasts" - pages 412-441

Week Thirteen - April 6th - April 12th
Part Four - 10 Four Horsemen - A Fairyland of Silver and Gold and The Weight of Metal - pages 445 - 473

Week Fourteen - April 13th - April 19th
Part Four - 10. Four Horsemen - Dragonflies in the Sun and 11. A Kettle of Grief - Dead Country and "Put the Fear of God into Them" and "You Are All Brave. You Are All Gentlemen" - pages 473-509

Week Fifteen - April 20th - April 26th
Part Four - 11. A Kettle of Grief - "On the Eve of Great Things" and 12. The Great Prize - Shaking Stars from the Heavens - pages 509-536

Week Sixteen - April 27th - May 3rd
Part Four - 12. The Great Prize - A Fifth Army Show - pages 536-555

Week Seventeen - May 4th - May 10th
Part Four - 12. The Great Prize - The Cuckoo's Song and Expulsion of the Barbarians - pages 555-576

Week Eighteen - May 11th - May 17th
Epilogue - pages 577-588

Week Nineteen - May 18th - 24th
Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts


Vincent (vpbrancato) | 1245 comments Bryan wrote: "I'm a little behind, but I had to post about the USS Savannah and the missile Fritz-X. I never knew the Germans had this technology.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_X"


Thanks Bryan - that was informative - I am normally making notes as I go and this section inspired not so many but this was one of the items I noted - The Germans mad the FX-1400 - the first guided missile. All other considerations aside maybe it is really good that we (the Americans) got Werner Von Braun and his colleagues after WW II.


Vincent (vpbrancato) | 1245 comments Sorry I am again so far behind - about ten weeks it seems - i will try harder.

Several things struck me in this section of reading.

Pg 208 - although this was our "fault" in not taking Hewitt's strong advise to shell the coast and inland before landing our troops it struck that like Normandy in 1944 the Brits relatively walked ashore, although this time they faced more resistance soon afterward, and the Americans came ashore under heavy fire with heavy losses.

Pg 211 - the unnamed British historian's quote "in the land of theory....there is none of war's friction" really struck me as notable so I note it here. I feel supported as Atkinson choose to include it.

Generally in this reading I was pleased to come across our friend Kent Hewitt again - and he lived thru this part too.

I take a personal observation here. Having spent decades in the steel industry sometimes people talk about tons of steel and to give that an image I explain that if ones sees a plate of steel on the street covering a hole of problem (maybe more common here in NYC) and if it is 7 foot x 7 foot and is 1" thick it is a ton. It was mentioned in this section that after the Americans called for artillery support from the navy 11,000 tons of shells were fired to support them. So to give that quantity a value imagine if you would that 7 foot square being 916 feel high to illustrate the tonnage if it had been steel. Solid steel over 900 feet high. A lot of ordinance.

Pg 219 - last para - the tools of war "to bring typewriters and filing cabinets up from the beach" - today it would be a laptop and a printer that one carries under your arm I guess.

Pg 224 - para 4 "it was hell up there" para 3 soldiers for each other - the horror of war is carried by the fighters it seems and their buddies are the ones they are most loyal to in the field. - just an empathic feeling from me.

Pg 225 last para - BBC continues to promote Montgomery without full details.

Pg 227 - Gen. Vietinghoff has a vision to be able to win and effectively pursued it. Man like him made the certainty of winning, even with our eventual manufacturing strength advantage, less certain. Do we have to be thankful that Churchill did not let us try to invade cross channel in 1942 or 1943??

Sorry to be so late. One of my problems with this book is that I almost insist to read it with an atlas of WWII - using The Historical Atlas of WW II (not as good as the Atlas I had for the Civil War but there is much more here) and I also like to use (an even bigger book) the World War II Almanac which give daily info on the progress in each theatre of the war. After reading this section I have to recommend this Almanac to you as a reference. It is useful for any reading or discussion of WWII - I really must also concede that reading the daily newspaper (for me the NY Times) I am sometimes going also to the Atlas to see a map and get a written perspective (there is more than maps here) to better understand things. I don't remember but I don't think either was so expensive and the cost, to me, per hour of use keeps falling..
The Almanac is only one volume but that version was not on the Goodreads list (interesting as I bought the book from Amazon) - sorry

World War II Almanac. Almanacs of American Wars, 2-Volume Set. by Keith L Dickson Keith L Dickson The Historical Atlas of World War II by Alexander Swanston Alexander Swanston - no photos of either author


message 10: by Bryan (new) - added it

Bryan Craig No worries, Vince thank you. Here is the proper citation:

(no image) World War II Almanac. Almanacs of American Wars, 2-Volume Set. by Keith L Dickson (no photo)

The Historical Atlas of World War II by Alexander Swanston by Alexander Swanston (no photo)


message 11: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bentley | 44207 comments Mod
I never realized the dimensions as it relates to tons of steel. Thank you.

Thanks Bryan for assisting Vincent with his citations.


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