Week 11: 14. The Returns & Book as a Whole

[David]

Menelaos and Agamemnon quarrel; Calchas and Mopsos
What was Menelaos thinking when he argues to sail away instead of to stay and sacrifice to Athene. Presumably this is why his group is reduced by a storm that forces him to stop in Egypt. Calchas dies of shame after he is bested by a better diviner.

The later history of the Pelopids
We are again told that that Helen that was abducted and taken to Troy was a Phantom and Menalaos recovered the real Helen in Egypt and eventually recovered his kingdom. I wonder what happened to that phantom?

The return of Odysseus (a summary of the Odyssey)
We get an outline of the Odyssey here, including a list of Penelope’s suitors.

The later history of Odysseus
Here we learn that Telegonos, son of Odysseus and Circe, unknowingly kills Odysseus while, you guessed it, rustling Odysseus’ cattle.

[Mike]

I always found it rather telling of Odysseus character that after escaping from Polyphemus he stops to make sure that he knows that it was him Odysseus who bested him.

[Roger]

Looking at the book as a whole, I am tempted to compare to another large body of connected traditional stories that I am acquainted with: the historical narrative in the Hebrew Bible. There are some obvious similarities, but also some differences. The Greek collection is larger and more diffuse, with lots of things happening here and there with no connection with each other except being in the same general setting. The Bible has a sense of direction and development, as it goes from a handful of patriarchs to wandering tribes to ungoverned settlement to David and Solomon to the divided kingdom to foreign conquest and deportation. The Greek stories don't seem to change character over time. Also, the Bible story is much better connected to verifiable history in its later episodes. And of course the element of didactic moral instruction is much stronger in the Bible.

You could also make a comparison with the stories of King Arthur and of the paladins of Charlemagne. These have some basis in history and even include some historical personages, but the events are almost entirely fanciful. The Arthur stories have an overarching narrative, but I don't know that the Charlemagne ones do.

There may be a similar body of literature in Indian texts, the Mahabharata and so forth, but I don't know them well enough to comment.

[Bryan--The Bee’s Knees]

Well, I powered through and finished this this evening. I'm truly sorry I didn't participate more in the discussion, but I was completely at a loss as to what to say. I'm glad I read the book--there were a few odds and ends I picked up, but there was also a lot of the book that sort of passed in front of my eyes, because I wasn't familiar enough with the characters.

Most of the major figures I recognized either from Homer or Ovid, but there wasn't enough narrative thrust to cement many new figures into my mind. Not that I think it was supposed to have any, but there was a little too much of the 'X happened, but so and so says it happened this way, and this other says it was completely different and happened this way.' These alternatives really made it difficult for me to keep things straight.

One of the alternatives that I thought was interesting, which I hadn't known about, was that the Greeks sailed off for Troy, couldn't find it, and attacked somewhere else first. When they left, they were blown back to their own shores, ten years after they left. Then the took off again for Troy, to fight for another ten years. I'd never heard that variant before.

As I said, I'm glad I read it--I just couldn't think of anything to say about it.

[Nidhi]

I finished this book around two weeks ago because I have it for a challenge. This book has inspired me to go for more Ancient Greek literature. I got recommendations for Ovid and Stephen Fry’s book, in this group. And also I still have to read plays by Aristophanes, Sophocles and Euripides.


I want to know is there a similar book for Ancient Roman literature, for history I have heard of Gibbon ‘s Rise and fall of Roman Empire. Any suggestions from your experiences?

[David]

Nidhi wrote: "I want to know is there a similar book for Ancient Roman literature, for history I have heard of Gibbon ‘s Rise and fall of Roman Empire. Any suggestions from your experiences?"

Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire is historical; not mythological, and it is huge, 1300 + pages or a little over 126 hours of narration in an audio book form.

The Perseus Digital has a site for Primary and secondary sources for the study of ancient Greece and Rome you can read online
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/c...

Literary sources from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_m...

[David]

I want to thank everyone who participated in this read and discussion of The Library of Greek Mythology by Apollodorus, with special mention to Ian for all of his contributions.

Regardless of one's familiarity with classical mythology, the work is a bit more esoteric than one may initially suppose and took a bit of fortitude to plow through. I suppose that is why, "The Library" is appended to the title of the work for at times it is like reading a dictionary. To add to Roger's contrast with the canonized Christian Bible, I am pleasantly intrigued by the added dimensions the alternative details not only from other works, but often offered within in the work itself with an, "or some say. . ." In the pictures are worth a thousand words department, I am glad genealogical trees were graphically presented in my edition because just reading about them tied my thoughts into knots.

It clearly takes some insight and perhaps a little poetic license to turn these accounts into the moving epics and poems we are more familiar with, but this work does indeed represent the source material that inspires those derivative works, and for that, I am grateful.

[Nidhi]

Thanks for the ‘Perseus’ link, David. I enjoy reading books with this group and looking forward to read Demons ( for which I voted three times, still I have no idea what to expect from that lengthy book).

[Rafael]

I am glad that I read too. It was an interesting read with stories that I never heard before.

[Nidhi]

Hi friends

I got information from a friend about another book regarding my query about Roman Literature (history)Classical World: An Epic History of Greece and Rome

I want to read it this year but that will depend on many factors ...such as opening of schools.

[Ian]

For those interested in pursuing Classical Mythology in a more modern form, William Hansen's 2004 Handbook of Classical Mythology was reissued in 2020, in a revised edition with a new title Classical Mythology: A Guide to the Mythical World of the Greeks and Romans

For a review of the first edition, by Todd Ewing,see the Bryn Mawr Classical Review, https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2004/2004.0...

This is still available from Amazon, but the price is rather steep: see https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Class...

For a review of the 2020 revised edition, by Maureen Alden, see the Bryn Mawr Classical Review https://mailchi.mp/bmcreview.org/bmcr...

This has two pages on Amazon, one a bit more expensive than the other, but both under $20. See

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Myth...
and
https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Myth...