THE Group for Authors! discussion
Writer's Circle
>
Rating and reviewing other authors books on Goodreads (and elsewhere)
I have very little time and energy left after work, so I decided that I should only use them for things that make me happy or better by any means. Therefore, I only review and rate books that I really enjoyed reading.
Mod
I hope thousands read your post, J, and follow your lead!
Anna wrote: "I hope thousands read your post, J, and follow your lead!"Agreed! Ben
Alejandra wrote: "I have very little time and energy left after work, so I decided that I should only use them for things that make me happy or better by any means. Therefore, I only review and rate books that I rea..."I can understand that. I like to keep a record, though. I'm really here on Goodreads as as reader. I imagine that even when - if ;) ;) - I publish my novel that I will want to continue that, and keep a record of everything I read.
Btw I've seen several big name authors already who do similarly to you Alejandra. It seems to be a smart way to go.
J. wrote: "I pretty much rate and review every book I read, though often only here on GR and not other sites. The exception is for indie authors who do not have thousands of reviews I will do one on Amazon. O..."Some lovely advice for me there, J. I think I will look into putting reviews on Amazon, something I have not done before.
Authors really appreciate Amazon reviews because I'm told that Amazon use those reviews to help calculate the placement in the charts. I don't know if that is true. There are lots of other reasons why a good Amazon review is much prized.As J indicates giving preference to Indie authors because they have fewer reviews (possibly because we don't have publishers' money behind us) that is truly a good deed. Hope Santa manages to get down your chimney with a big bag of gifts, J!
Merry Christmas everyone!
I very much agree with this comment. We don't all enjoy the same books - and long may that continue - so if you've got nothing nice to say, don't say it. Immense time and effort goes into writing a book - a Churchillian effort of 'Blood, sweat and tears'.
A little extra: it's not just indie authors who draw the short straw. A friend of mine used to be an editor at Harper Collins and she recalls the total marketing budget for one year being for Margaret Thatcher - nothing left for anyone else. The big names get the biggest cut of the cake. The mid list - that's the commercial fiction you see on supermarket shelves - gets next to nothing - so like indie authors have to do a lot themselves.
Yes, Lizzie, I've heard that's been true for some time now and I do wonder why people hope to 'get promoted' to traditional publishing companies.
Anna wrote: "Yes, Lizzie, I've heard that's been true for some time now and I do wonder why people hope to 'get promoted' to traditional publishing companies."It's always been true, Anna. I've had many books published and half a dozen have got into the top thirty best selling paperbacks. Since the advent of ebooks the onus has increased to promote your own books. Traditional publishers give big advances to celebrity authors (a great number 'ghosted' by real writers) so in order to get their money back, they're the ones they back with big marketing and publicity budgets. There is now a fine line between mid list publishers and independent and the market is changing all the time.
As an Indy author I truly appreciate everyone who leaves reviews or ratings. It is a help to us in getting promoters to promote our books. The more reviews, the more possible readers. Thank you readers for helping us.
Mod
Thanks. I'm just hoping the next indie book I buy is the best one I've read all year.
Merry Christmas a Happy and Healthy New Year to all.
Marie wrote: "As an Indy author I truly appreciate everyone who leaves reviews or ratings. It is a help to us in getting promoters to promote our books. The more reviews, the more possible readers. Thank you rea..."Best wishes, Marie. It takes guts and commitment.
Lizzie wrote: "I very much agree with this comment. We don't all enjoy the same books - and long may that continue - so if you've got nothing nice to say, don't say it. Immense time and effort goes into writing a..."This is confusing for me because I thoroughly agree that it takes time and effort to write. Most novels are either for you, or not for you. But I also like to keep a record of what books I enjoy. the easiest way to to do that is with a rating...but, I think I said already, my plan is not to rate if I would have rated lower than a four. It seems there is no perfect way around this.
But I'm talking Goodreads above. I am going to try and start using Amazon to give other authors a helping hand. :)
There are diverse ways to record. Personal choice.
M writes I am going to try and start using Amazon to give other authors a helping hand. :):)
Anna wrote: "Authors really appreciate Amazon reviews because I'm told that Amazon use those reviews to help calculate the placement in the charts."This is false and an urban myth. The only thing that affects sales rank are sales + borrows (for KU titles). Reviews have no impact on rank. If you want to better understand how Amazon works behind the scenes, I recommend reading David Gaughran's "Amazon Decoded".
Thank you, Tilly, that's useful and as I said, I didn't know if it was true or not and that there are lots of reasons why a good review is much prized.This is what Amazon says about how books are rated:
"To calculate the overall star rating and percentage breakdown by star, we don’t use a simple average. Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. It also analyses reviews to verify trustworthiness."
So a recent review counts for more than an older one.
Anna wrote: "This is what Amazon says about how books are rated..."Ratings is very different to sales rank - which is what you originally referred to. It is a common urban myth that reviews are factored into rank, when they aren't.
Too many authors over think the issue of reviews and they aren't nearly as important as many make out. I have used Facebook ads to sell a book with no reviews. If the cover/blurb are doing their job, reviews don't matter. Personally, I don't "prize" reviews as they aren't left for me. What I value is insightful feedback from my critique partners and editor. Once a book is published, I'd much rather have sales over reviews! ;)
Amazon reviews may not be responsible for a books ranking, but it certainly helps sales if the reviews are good, and then you get the ranking.
I have 75 great reviews for my novel, Magenta Rave. I published in 2013, but did no marketing of any kind. While the reviews definitely lifted my spirits and confirmed my own opinion of the book, they apparently didn't impact sales. If I publish again, I will do far more publicity ahead of publication, and I will research the best bang for my investment.
Janna wrote: "I have 75 great reviews for my novel, Magenta Rave. I published in 2013, but did no marketing of any kind. While the reviews definitely lifted my spirits and confirmed my own opinion of the book, t..."Most publishers publicise around publication date their take being that the audience you target will have forgotten it if you do it before then.
Janna wrote: "I have 75 great reviews for my novel, Magenta Rave. I published in 2013, but did no marketing of any kind. While the reviews definitely lifted my spirits and confirmed my own opinion of the book, t..."Lizzie wrote: "Janna wrote: "I have 75 great reviews for my novel, Magenta Rave. I published in 2013, but did no marketing of any kind. While the reviews definitely lifted my spirits and confirmed my own opinion ..."
Yes Janna, your reviews must have helped sales when you did no marketing. Books with none or poor reviews will have little or no sales; except from friends or neighbours who like you. Janna you should try some giveaways, I found it works. Best of luck.
I'm mainly here as a reader. Really, given what I've had published, I'm almost just pretending to be an author. I certainly go on reviewing.That said, there's this dilemma that comes up every time reviews are mentioned, including this dicussion. It seems plain wrong to me to not ever give negative reviews, but I do understand the reasoning behind it that it also brings some concrete harm to the author to do so.
So as I see it, in the question of whether to do negative reviews, there's the case for not doing harm, which is pretty concrete, but not leaving them goes against a bunch of other values: honesty, saying what you mean, fulfilling the purpose of reviews to help potential readers, and just a general "take things as they are and don't shoehorn the world out of shape so as not to offend people"-ness. That last one is important, but then again, this isn't a place where following it or not would have so much impact.
I want to be able to write negative reviews as well. There's a kind of "objectiveness" to that too, even though reviews express one's opinion. Somebody once wrote elsewhere online how they hate how people call books they don't like bad when it's just their opinion. I asked whether they also hate it when people call books good, but didn't get a response.
Another way to look at it - if ratings are all positive, why do they even exist? Of course, Goodreads already tries to tell us that all its ratings except one star are different grades of "the book was good," but most people don't seem to buy that.
Hello All id like you review my book Book link here https://www.waterstones.com/book/a-ca...
Good Readers Link
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...
Anyone wants a free pdf copy DM
Hi Ville. I am a person who doesn't give negative reviews, but I understand your concern and thinking. The negative reviews that I have found most helpful were the ones that said something to the effect that this is not my taste, but it might be yours. Also, specifics about why the reader didn't like it, rather than it was bad, boring, etc. If I read a book that I thought was without any redeeming value, I would probably not review it.
I try not to follow the rule about if we can't say something good.... I admit to being soft on authors I know the effort it takes to even a not so good book. However as an author, I have learned to take a bad review in stride.
Same here. If I can locate the author on FB, I would private message them and tell what they need to do to improve. To tell the world something bad about a fellow author reflects on you as the reviewer.
Ville wrote: "I'm mainly here as a reader. Really, given what I've had published, I'm almost just pretending to be an author. I certainly go on reviewing.That said, there's this dilemma that comes up every tim..."
Hi Ville, I feel like you 'got' my question! :)
I'm here as a reader first, and foremost. But the fact that I write might become a thing here on Goodreads in the future and so I'm thinking ahead.
Yet...I don't want to give up my 'reader' status here!
I'm a fairly high rater anyway, and when I rate a bit lower I usually say 'just not for me', (something I really believe is a valid point). So perhaps I will continue on as I have been, into the future.
It's been good to put the question out here though.
Rida wrote: "The negative reviews that I have found most helpful were the ones that said something to the effect that this is not my taste, but it might be yours."I do that. I have done that for dnf's in particular, so not a review (since I didn't finish it) but as a pointer as to why I didn't. Many book aren't bad, they're just not my scene.
I didn’t read every post here but I got the feeling people are only reviewing and reading books they like. That’s a poor attitude and a disservice. Maybe that’s why authors are begging for reviews. I read reviews I read the 4 and below stars first. I want to know why people didn’t like the book. Then I read the 5 stars. I’ve skipped books with poor reviews. I’ve bought books and been disappointed because I felt the reviewers were friends afraid to tell the truth.
I will give an honest review and tell the poor points and the ones that failed.
Note: don’t write a book that doesn’t solve the mystery at the s of the book. You can leave a string to carry on to the next book but if you don’t solve the promise you made at the beginning of the book at the end, I won’t buy the next book and I’ll review it as a promise not kept to the reader.
Tina Weaver
Everyone's so concerned about being perceived as nice or nasty, imo, we've kinda forgotten about just being honest. For the past three months, I've been feeling all kinds of ways about this, but I think I'm just going to stick to honesty.Like, do I want positive reviews only as a writer? Sure. I am living in perpetual fear of a one-star review where someone just dissects my story for every tiny flaw, but this whole "Say something nice or say nothing" unwritten policy is horrible. If everyone leaves good reviews as a rule then a good review becomes meaningless in my opinion.
All I'd like is for it to be detailed. Like, don't just one-star or two-star and go, because that doesn't help me know about mistakes I made or other readers deciding if to read it or not.
M wrote: "As authors, how do you manage (or not) rating and/or reviewing the books of other authors?i.e. do you continue to rate and revi..."
There is a confusion here about what is reviewing on GR is all about: It is for readers of books to [hopefully] express their unbiased opinion about a book. It is not meant for authors to instruct other authors in the art of crafting a book-length piece of writing. Yes, an author may learn a great deal from readers' reaction and try to fix it in the next book, but we should not expect this site to be a mutual back-scratcher with inflated, undeserving glowing reviews when a book doesn't deserve it--and think we fool the paying book buyers.
The time to comment and suggest improvement on a manuscript is BEFORE it gets published, and there are sub-groups that do that, or we should create ones here by genre. Exchange full, yet-unpublished manuscript and help fellow writers with constructive feedback.
With a very limited reading time for fun (I always must read for research,) compounded with the maddening fact that I am a slow reader--I listen to the music of each sentence and each paragraph--I can't waste time to read poorly crafted books beyond the first couple of pages. What is the point of reading such a book to the end and give it 1 or 2 star--and possibly break the spirit of a novice writer who, with constructive guidance may reach great heights in subsequent books?
Another point to consider is the total number of reviews. A novice author who recruits friends to write glowing reviews may show only a handful of them. When they are all 5 stars, I know not to trust a single word. In fact, I've had cases when novice writers asked me to read their half-assed edited books that they published within weeks of penning them, and DEMANDED that I give 5 stars or not bother to read them! When I suggested that, in general, 4 stars is a respectable review they responded that I shouldn't bother. This has happened a few times.)
The only times I read a book I do not enjoy to the end is when I am committed to my book group or the book is such a huge bestseller that it piques my curiosity. There is no danger that I might ruin an author's career by giving it a poor review, while explaining my reasons for it. It often opens a discussion among readers.
In short, mutual back-scratching doesn't fool a seasoned reader, and the author should look elsewhere to learn the craft. I know I did--and still do.
Oh, I see the conversation on this thread is back and taking a similar turn as I was going for on another one. So apparently it's an actual thing that some authors ask for a specific kind of review.(I get this mischievous idea of acquiescing to the demand of giving five stars on demand but coupling it with a review containing a scathing criticism. I'm not saying I would, but there's something satisfying to imagining it.)
I was stunned to receive an email from an author who I thought I was forming a good friendship with and genuinely enjoyed reading their work who, much to my shock when I read the email, had an absolute go at me for giving her book three stars. In no uncertain terms she told me that indie authors should only ever give one another 4 or 5 star reviews. All I could think was, 'then don't ask for an honest review'.
GR is here for me as a reader, and I will only give honest ratings and reviews as a reader. If I don't finish a book, I won't rate it, as it's not - in my mind - fair to the author (who knows, the book might've improved at a mark I never reached). If I've loved a book, I'll give it what I believe it deserves. Similarly, I would hope those who read my work do the same. Sure, the one star ones hurt, but, I'll take honesty from a reader any day of the week, and that's what I will give in return.
I do worry about it potentially hurting in the future - I've heard of more than one scary story where authors have gotten their fans on board to bombard another author with 1 star reviews after they left a negative review. But the way I choose to see it is this: we all have different tastes. What suits me may not suit another. And personally, I'm forever thankful for that.
M, I’m reinforcing a lot of what has already been said so well, but here’s my personal philosophy on doing reviews as an author. I don’t do reviews on request. I did that early in my career and lost a couple friends because I couldn’t leave a complimentary review or lead my readers to purchase a book I felt didn’t have that spark/heart that makes a good read. However, if I read a book “on my own time and dime” and like it (3.5 – 5 stars), I will leave reviews on GoodReads, BookBub and Amazon. If I don’t like it (under 3 stars), I won’t review it. I have two reasons I don’t. One, I feel like it would be perceived as a conflict of interest, particularly for a book in my own genre. In other words, it looks like I’m tearing down the competition. Two, which is probably the more important reason – my internal editor broke a long time ago, so if I’m over-dissecting the craft of a book and not enjoying it, there’s a very good possibility it’s a book plenty of readers would absolutely love, and I don’t want to put them off of it.
Though I know a bad review can often win as many readers for a book as a good review, that’s usually when the bad review is talking preferences, not craft. Like a one-star review that says “I hate BDSM romance” will often get BDSM readers to check the book out (btw, that’s an actual one-line review quote I received, lol). Whereas a craft-based review like “this book was slow paced, confusing and had weak characters” won’t be as likely to get that interested reaction.
I too add my thanks to those who leave reviews for books, both glowing praise and thoughtful criticism. Professionally, they come in handy for a variety of marketing strategies and help me improve the next book. Personally, the glowing ones keep me charged up through all those tedious edit rounds!
I feel I need to make a comment on asking for reviews anywhere. It is long, but important to understand: https://medium.com/@danenbarger/paid-...
As an author, and also a chronic reader and one who has studied literature, I try to always make a distinction between good versus bad and what is personal taste (likes versus dislikes.) Because I don't like something - writing an entire book in the present tense, for example - does not mean it isn't well-written, well-plotted or deserves to be unpopular, it just means it's not to my taste. I'm not sure that distinction is always clear in reviews.On Amazon, which is a book market - i.e., the reviews are probably more likely to influence sales than on book discussion sites - I don't review books if I can't give them at least 4 stars, and say something nice.
Joey thank you - there is food for thought in your message. Joey wrote: "I feel like it would be perceived as a conflict of interest, particularly for a book in my own genre. In other words, it looks like I’m tearing down the competition. "
I hadn't thought of it like that so I'm glad you mentioned it.
Joey wrote: "if I’m over-dissecting the craft of a book and not enjoying it, there’s a very good possibility it’s a book plenty of readers would absolutely love, and I don’t want to put them off of it."
I feel this with most books I read - that if I don't like them it's not going to stop others from enjoying the read. For the most part I rate based on my enjoyment and that can come down to things which another person would have trouble even guessing. I think this is also because most books I read are written well enough (craft wise). So then for me it comes down to features which can be quite personal.
So in the end I don't want to put off readers and I also don't want to dismiss the hard work that writers have put into a novel - which is usually a good book even if I haven't enjoyed it that much.
Suzanne wrote: "I've heard of more than one scary story where authors have gotten their fans on board to bombard another author with 1 star reviews after they left a negative review. "THAT is horrendous. I hate that there are people out there who will go to those lengths. :(
Suzanne wrote: "If I don't finish a book, I won't rate it, as it's not - in my mind - fair to the author (who knows, the book might've improved at a mark I never reached)."
I agree and I also don't review but...occasionally if I have DNFed a book I will write why and I have to do that in the review section. I always preface in big letters at the top: Not a review - just it's my reasons for not finishing it.
Talia wrote: "I can't waste time to read poorly crafted books beyond the first couple of pages. What is the point of reading such a book to the end and give it 1 or 2 star"Terrific point.
Talia wrote: "I've had cases when novice writers asked me to read their half-assed edited books that they published within weeks of penning them, and DEMANDED that I give 5 stars or not bother to read them! "
Wow. Another example of terrible author behaviour. :( Disappointing.
I also feel that four stars is very respectable. Very.
Ville wrote: "So apparently it's an actual thing that some authors ask for a specific kind of review."Disturbing that authors would try to micromanage isn't it. I mean we can hope the reviewer will be respectful, and hope they will like our book. But once you give out your book to a reviewer then you surely must...let them review?
I made a deal with a close friend that I would praise her book to the high Heavens, if she did so for me, so we both did it.It is a matter of opinion. Both of us are good writers, so neither of of lied in our praise.
Marcielle wrote: "I made a deal with a close friend that I would praise her book to the high Heavens, if she did so for me, so we both did it."Gosh... I hope you simply mean when talking to others, and not about trading glowing 5-star reviews with author friends... because that is problematic on so many levels. Not to mention a violation of most retailer TOS.
M wrote: "Suzanne wrote: "I've heard of more than one scary story where authors have gotten their fans on board to bombard another author with 1 star reviews after they left a negative review. "THAT is hor..."
I cannot believe someone would do that.
All I can say is they can't have much faith in their own work if they have to denigrate that of others.
Suzanne wrote: "I've heard of more than one scary story where authors have gotten their fans on board to bombard another author with 1 star reviews after they left a negative review. .."This is horrible, but frankly, it may be just a myth. I can barely get my children to do what I ask them, let alone my many fans.....
Anyway, a book is not like a car that one buy's only one every several years, but rather there is room for many books within each genre. Yes, the competition is fierce, but why waste so much energy on mobilizing followers to battle rather than direct them to one's own other books?
I hadn't heard of this before, though I had heard of one bestselling author with a traditional house posting bad reviews of his rivals.
As authors, how do you manage (or not) rating and/or reviewing the books of other authors?
i.e. do you continue to rate and review, do you only rate if you loved the book...or maybe you have other feelings on it.
Please consider sharing. :)