General chit-chat and information (part 2)

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

I will confess that at least half my class borrowed my notebooks! For the Shakespeare anyway.

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Paula wrote: "Hey Chris, Hey Chris! Guess what?! I just realized somewhere that I do a lot of margin notes!! I'm trying to work my way through Paradise Lost and have a ton of notes there because it's my way of u..."

Well, there you go! I'm telling you it is the only way to handle books with a little 'umphh.' I have pretty much decided that for the remainder of my life that I am only reading books with 'umphh' too; so, pencil shall be in hand.

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Anna wrote: "I am a chronic margin scribbler, but frequently find that because margins are small, my notes make very little sense to me when I re-read a book say 6 years later. Seems like there are better ways ..."

I also carry a nicely bound notebook that I write comments and thought in. The problem is that I tend to lose track of the notebook that I was writing in when I read a particular novel, and I have to spend some time thumbing through the notebooks.

I now write the date that I finished the book, in pencil, in the flyleaf of the book. This helps me to find the appropriate journal entries. My on-line literary blog is also mightily helping to keep me organized.

[MadgeUK]

This is easier with electronic books because you can both bookmark a word/page and then search for it. It is IMO the most useful feature, apart from being able to increase font size. I sometimes use the small Post-it stickers in real books although my peculiar old mind has a search facility of its own in that I can usually remember which part of a book a particular word/phrase is. It is something I have been able to do since childhood and I can go back to books I read many years ago, squeeze my eyes closed to visualise the word/phrase and then open the book at the right place, or very near it. Peculiar!

[Paula]

So, I admit, I've been stressed lately and when I'm stressed I buy books. I may have over-purchased as there are 12 new books stacked next to my bed right now :)

I also only have one more day of work before a beautiful 10 day vacation, starting with 4 days at my family's cabin in northern Wisconsin... Next week will be filled with reading, lounging, landscaping, reading, long walks with my dog, reading,.. you get the hint!

Anyone else planning something for the US Labor Day weekend??

[Marialyce]

Have a wonderful time, Paula. (although I can't imagine why you would be stressed! :)) I am bringing my granddaughter back to VA this weekend and trying to avoid Hurricane Earl, but I am going to London the following weekend for part 2 of my daughter's wedding. :)

[SarahC]

Yes, I hope the weather doesn't take a toll on us all this weekend. We are only taking a short trip for a family visit to Memphis and the week is slipping by so I need to pack. Not as much packing as you, Paula, but a week-long cabin vacation would be worth the packing! I am still excited for you, Marialyce, for your London trip.

[Everyman]

Paula wrote: "Anyone else planning something for the US Labor Day weekend?? "

Planning on staying home, looking out at the water, swinging in the hammock if the sun stays out, reading, playing with the grandchildren, enjoying life!

[Joy]

I am currently spending the week on the beach in Mexico; reading under a palapa while listening to the waves crash.

[Paula]

Oh my - such wonderful plans everyone has! Hope everyone enjoys the long weekend, or regular weekend if it's not part of a holiday!

[Paula]

The cabin is about an hour northwest of Crivitz. I live in the southeast corner of WI, so it is about a 5-hr drive. I just got home and already want to go back! Where in WI are you? I think Door County is absolutely gorgeous around late September - the colors up there are spectacular that time of year!

[Paula]

I love Bawston! :) The city of history and one-way streets :) Ellison Bay is beautiful and I hope you can get home this fall - pick some apples for me while you're up there!

[SarahC]

Does anyone know if there are any versions of Sherlock Holmes novels adapted for young readers (elementary age)? I just don't remember seeing any adaptations, but I guess I have only ever looked for the original stories.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

I believe the one I had as a child had the same text as the regular, but a great many illustrations.

[SarahC]

Me too Susanna -- I don't believe I ever read anything but the originals.

I discovered at the library today there are a few versions adapted for young folk. I will look into them a little more and share them here just for fun.

[Paula]

Andrew Lane recently started getting his books published, and they are a series of books that tell the story of "the young Sherlock Holmes," and are specifically geared towards teens. They start with Sherlock at age 14 or so, and tell about how he learned his trade, how he grew up, lived a somewhat regular life, and then will ultimately end with his meeting Dr. Watson.

I'm not sure if they are available in the US - the article I read about this mentioned them from a UK perspective, but they did sound interesting.

[SarahC]

I will look those up Paula. I thought there may be some variations out there. Isn't it fun to search for a line of books and check them out for the first time? My child is at the age that his tastes are changing pretty quickly so that is keeping me on the ball! I also work at a school library, so I have fun keeping up to date on the current trends.

[Paula]

You work at a school library? How fun!! You get to help shape the minds of youths and help them on the road to literary adventures!

I don't have kids, but if I do I really hope they'll be readers so that we can explore new books together and talk about books that I read and loved (or, if they don't love them, at least talk about them!)

[SarahC]

I am a part-time library volunteer and yes, the best part is talking books with kids. As cliche as that sounds, it is really true. And also maybe hard to believe-- kids do still get excited about going to the library. One of the best places in the world to volunteer-- I am sure many libraries could always use the help.

Chances are, the kids in your future will be readers, Paula. I think if reading plays a part in your household, they will have a natural start as booklovers (or at least likers!).

These are the only interesting young people Sherlock Holmes I have come across yet (I haven't had that much time to look though).






One is a graphic novel and one is a "prequel" that had some promising reviews.

I am shooting for some adaptations of the original stories though.

[K.]

If you follow the link you'll find an interesting copy of the "casebook." It is the full text of a number of Sherlock stories, but what makes it more accessible to younger readers is the annotation in the margins--my kids love these books. You have to get them used and look around for them, but they did some fun things like Treasure Island, Swiss Family Robinson, Pinocchio and others.

http://www.amazon.com/Casebook-Sherlo...

[SarahC]

Thank you K. That sounds like the kind of thing I love and may be perfect for my son. Sounds like this format helps reinforce doing their research a little bit. Great! Don't you wish more children's publications were like that?

[K.]

I think it is so great! I think we only grow by going a little above our heads (not that I'd give "The Odyssey" in full to a six-year-old) but I think children can usually handle more than we give them credit for, and we tend to go for the real deal most of the time at our house. Books with annotations are wonderful, though! (I like them myself!!!) It is helpful to begin with introducing young children to difficult classics with adaptations, but Sherlock Holmes isn't written too heavily, I think most kids--with inner-drive--could handle it. My boy read most of them when he was nine. My 2 cents.

Let us know if you come up with anything good--a huge problem with most adaptations is that the quality goes way down. Sometimes we get lucky though, I just bought a book called "Beowulf Told to the Children" by H. E. Marshall and it is absolutely wonderful and a perfect introduction book.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Which reminds me, I had a children's version of The Odyssey at 8 and loved it. No idea who wrote that version. Also a children's Canterbury Tales, which was wonderful. Let me check if it's in the database here at GR. (Later: it wasn't so I added it: The Canterbury Tales of Geoffrey Chaucer: Special Edition for Young Readers.)

[SarahC]

Susanna, that Canterbury Tales is going on my own reading list. I agree K, that the search for good adaptations if tough and they never replace the original. I plan to look back through some of the original Conan Doyle writing and see what I think.

We have been reading together The Annotated Secret Garden -- it is a really nice edition and it has been very interesting for him. Now we know a little about the Yorkshire dialect, especially!

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

I wonder if it's still in print? I've never seen any copy other than my own.

[Everyman]

I hope this question is allowed in the general chit-chat thread.

I'm thinking of starting a literary/political blog, and am starting to look into the various blogging services. I know that there are a number of people here who have their own blogs, so would very much appreciate any comments on what blogging service you use, why, what you find good and not so good about it, where you would start a blog if you were starting one today knowing what you know now, and any other suggestions, information, or advice you can offer a prospective blogger.

Thanks!

[Susan]

Everyman wrote: "I hope this question is allowed in the general chit-chat thread.

I'm thinking of starting a literary/political blog, and am starting to look into the various blogging services. I know that there a..."

Hello, Everyman. I can certainly share my experience with you. I have three blogs-two of which are very new. My original blog is a literary/writing blog. I have been on Blogger.com through Google (all the blogs with a blogspot.com ending)for a little over a year now. I find it is relatively easy to use once you get the hang of it, especially if you will mainly be writing. My newer blogs are design related, and I have been having loads of trouble with them. I need to manipulate photos and have some flexibility with the template. Unfortunately, Blogger seems pretty set in stone as far as website design, but then again I have very limited knowledge in this capability. That said, I would definitely recommend Blogger for a literary/political blog with the occasional photo. It gives enough flexibility and user-friendliness as to not interfere too much in what is really important-the writing.

[Susan]

Susan wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I hope this question is allowed in the general chit-chat thread.

I'm thinking of starting a literary/political blog, and am starting to look into the various blogging services. I ..."
One more word of advice: It takes a little bit of patience at first to get your website setup the way you like. I wish I would have expected this when I began!

[Everyman]

Thanks for the advice, all. Any more??

[Rob]

I have numerous blogs on blogspot.com Most of my blogs are used as scrapbooks to both showcase and keep my various interests available to me. On my poetry blog, I write at least one poem (usually a limerick) each day. I is http://poetrybysirlaugh.blogspot.com/

[Cathy]

For interested Sydneysiders, there's a lecture on women and crime in Victorian times:

Could He Forgive Her? Gender, Agency and Women's Criminality in 19th-Century English Law and Literature

6-7:30pm 30 November 2010
Registration 5:30pm
Sydney Law School (Camperdown Campus)

In this lecture, Nicola Lacey shall contend that there is a great deal to be learnt from realist novels about how women's agency and criminality was understood in the latter part of the 19th Century.
Focusing on the work of Anthony Trollope in particular, she shall try to show that, notwithstanding his lifelong literary preoccupation with independent-minded women, from poisonous Mrs Proudie in the early Barsetshire novels to the more palatable, but equally alarming, Lady Glencora of the Palliser series, his novels are marked by two attitudes to female self-assertion - whether criminal or otherwise - which are key to late Victorian understandings of female deviance. The first is a deep
ambivalence about - not infrequently shading into fear of or even disgust for - women who assert their (increasingly acknowledged) intellectual and practical capabilities through acts of independence
from men. The second is a tendency to associate female criminal and moral transgressions with a deep-rooted capacity for deception associated with either women as such or, at least, the female social role. Indeed, this image of female falseness provides an important counterpoint to the other, and more widely studied, Victorian tendency to associate female criminality with madness or other pathology. In
making this argument, Nicola Lacey shall draw out links between the literary images of appropriate and inappropriate femininity under consideration, and both the social and political world which produced
them, and the evolving position of women in both the criminal and the civil courts. As a coda to this last dimension of her lecture, she will also sketch the specific attitudes to law and lawyers which we find in
Trollope's work.

About the speaker: Nicola Lacey
Nicola Lacey is Senior Research Fellow at All Souls College. She works in the fields of criminal law, criminal justice and legal and social theory. She is working on a cross-disciplinary study of the development of ideas of responsibility for crime since the Eighteenth Century; and on the comparative political economy of criminalisation and punishment.

REGISTRATION ESSENTIAL:
http://sydney.edu.au/news/law/457.htm...

[[deleted user]]

Cathy wrote: "For interested Sydneysiders, there's a lecture on women and crime in Victorian times:

Could He Forgive Her? Gender, Agency and Women's Criminality in 19th-Century English Law and Literature

6..."

This looks so good. I'd love to go to it.

[The Book Whisperer (aka Boof)]

Everyman, only just seen your post about blogs. I have my own blog on Wordpress.com and I find that a great platform. I did tinker with blogger for a while too but prefered WP (it seems to do more) in the end, but it's only personal choice. Did you set one up yet?

[Everyman]

A word from the not-so-wise-it-turns-out.

After my major boo-boo in the North and South thread, I took a closer look at what I did wrong.

I had bought my copy of N&S at a library book sale some years ago. I don't know whether you've ever been to one of these events, or whether ours is typical, but in ours once a year the Friends of the Library, which has been collecting books all year, spreads them all out on tables in the school gym, opens the doors precisely at 9:00, and then it's worse than WalMart on Black Friday. It's a mad rush for the books, polite of course since we're all booklovers, but none the less fierce for all that. When you see a title you might like, you grab it quick and hope you got in ahead of the other seven hands that are also reaching for it. First touch wins. So there's no time to really look at the book, it's more grab and go. (But if you make a mistake, it's a cheap mistake; when you're ready to check out you pile the books on the counter, measure the height of the pile, and it's 25 cents an inch.)

Anyhow, I didn't look closely at my copy of N&S, just got it home, breezed through it, remember not being particularly impressed, and put it on the shelf. When the book came up here, I pulled it off the shelf and zipped through the first ten chapters.

After the issue arose, I took a closer look at the took, and realized that it's not the full N&S, but a severely abridged copy slimmed down to only 14 chapters (which means that in this edition the first ten chapters encompass most of the book!)

Yes, I should have noticed that something was wrong, but I was busy with holiday things, and didn't pay enough attention.

Anyhow, this isn't only a mea culpa, though it is that, but is also a warning to the wiser than me. It turns out that there is a whole series of such abridgments, published under the series Penguin Readers Simplified Texts. Tesco Books (Tesco is a major retailer in England and maybe elsewhere in Europe) lists 561 titles including a wide range of classics, not only Gaskell but Shakespeare, Dickens, Swift, Orwell, the Brontes, Hugo, Flaubert, Austen, D.H. Lawrence, Melville, and on and on.

They are in various series, which seem to correspond to the levels in English schools. It appears that when English schools teach these books, they use these abridged editions rather than the real books. No wonder they can cover so many books in their curriculum. (Moby Dick, for example, which is aimed at Level 2, which appears to me to be the equivalent of Jr. High in the US, is abridged down to 48 pages.

So, I got shanghaied into one of these books by mistake. No wonder I wasn't impressed with Gaskell -- I wasn't reading her, but some abridger's work. But be warned in future -- these books are out there. (They seem also to be popular with some home schooling parents, who want their kids to read these books but do so quickly and efficiently and within the modern teenager's attention span.)

The question then becomes, is reading these really reading the classics? Should schools substitute these works for the "real thing"? Are students being cheated? Or if they know they're reading abridgments and are reading these so they can get through a lot more of the ideas of the basic canon, is that a good thing?

BTW, you can get a list of the Tesco offerings at
http://www.tesco.com/books/browse.asp...

[SarahC]

I become more concerned about the subject of abridgments as time goes on, Everyman. I wanted to carefully state my views though.

You know there are abridgments out there for the young crowd and they are developed for a different purpose. I dont remember the publisher right now, but there is a certain set that are clearly described to the young reader as an abridged style of Jane Austen's original work. The volumes include background information, a glossary I believe, and encouragement to the reader to read the original version someday. They are almost study-guide quality. So that type of book may be rare, especially the quality like that, but I support the purpose of those. I think shortened classics for the very young really are just testing the waters. And I don't think there is as much danger that young kids will stop there.

The abridgments that seem to "pass off" as the original so much that a veteran reader like you gets tricked a little do bother me. And especially if they are used in place of the real writing in schools teaching at higher age levels. Because as the student progresses in reading and maturity, they need the quality of the true classics.

With these shortened versions done by other writers, it seems very likely the depth of the story would be compromised too. Just when a young adult should be connecting with great literature that carries the full emotion of the original story, they are assigned the "express" version. That is troubling particularly if they are passed off as the real thing and really all that is needed for a "classic."

And as an adult, I really have drawn the line. I was truly offended by a recent Persephone edition of Frances Burnett's The Shuttle. Basically chopped to half its original length, the story made much less sense. As far as I could see, their idea of abridgment was simply to leave out a bunch of chapters -- that was easy. And I am sorely critical of them because it was not advertised as an abridgment at the time I purchased it. I wouldn't even donate that edition to our local library sale -- I didn't think anyone should even have to pay 50 cents for it.

[The Book Whisperer (aka Boof)]

Sarah, I have a copy of Persophone's version of The Shuttle - are all their copies abridged do you know? It looks like a really thick book to me, but I would be disappointed if it turned about to be so (it cost quite a lot too!)

[SarahC]

I have not seen another Persephone that is abridged -- but have only read a dozen or so. Yes, the other (full) edition of The Shuttle that I bought is almost twice the size. Honestly the cost and their company image has made me a bit more peeved about the issue. The only background knowledge I have about the situation comes from a blog -- the blogger contacted Persephone and they said due to budget, they had to cut it down, but they thought it was better to do that in order to get it published. As far as I know, they don't make any apologies for doing this in the preface or anything -- and I think readers at least should have had something. Maybe I did not read the preface closely enough and it was there, but I know it was not in the catalog or website that I would have seen before I ordered it.

The original edition makes all the difference in the full understanding of many plot points. Before I realized I was reading a chopped version, I kept thinking that some of the explanations of what was happening to the characters were vague or not complete. The reason was those chapters had just been left out.

[[deleted user]]

I learned years ago not to buy anything that is abridged.

[Leslie]

I have shuddered at abridgements since my youth. I want it all, even the director's cuts on dvd's! BUT, there is one, and only one, book that I've read is best to read abridged. Supposedly the abridged version was essentially just a better edited version and so many people feel is is the better quality. It is GENGI by Murasaki something or other. Supposed to be the first novel ever written. It's a wandering vast novel of the poetic courtly romantic life of ancient China.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

The Tale of Genji, by Lady Murasaki.

[Linda2]

If the title of NS said "Penguin Readers Simplified Texts," then the abridgment wasn't "passed off" as the real thing. Unless that word was not clearly written on the cover. It just proves that even Eman is human.

Sarah, there was no indication on the cover of The Shuttle?

I know about abridgments. Reader's Digest abridged books date back to my childhood, and maybe earlier.

I think if you abridge a book for young people, you have to make it cohesive and maintain all the basic ideas, not just remove chapters. And it must be clearly stated in the catalog and on the cover. My first introduction to some classics was Classics Illustrated Comic Books, so a GOOD abridgment is a great improvement.

[SarahC]

No Rochelle, if you are familiar with the Persephone editions, they are very classic, gray-covered editions -- part of the attraction. It was in one word on the copyright page -- and since I mail ordered I had no way to know that. Earlier on Persephone may have published something about it in their quarterly, but unless you are around then AND subscribe to their quarterly (which I do now but not earlier) a reader would not know that.

Yes, the Reader's Digest ones. That was a 20th century concept, wasn't it? And they would all sit around in somebody's shelves looking nice, right? Where would they even come from? Did people order them? It almost seemed that sometimes they would just show up in a box, unordered? Do you remember? did your parents get them?

And you know Everyman may not take that one sitting down, Rochelle. I will be watching for his reply here. Brace yourself, Rochelle!

[Linda2]

My mother ordered the Reader's Digest Condensed Books. It was a mail order book club type of thing--you ordered each month. And yes, they were very successful for many years, just as Reader's Digest is or was.

[Robin]

I think Reader's Digest is on the web now, so more magazines are soon to becoming online.

[Linda2]

Robin wrote: "I think Reader's Digest is on the web now, so more magazines are soon to becoming online."

They're almost all on the web already

http://www.aldaily.com/

Check out the list of newspapers and mags on the left. I haven't bought a mag in years.

[Robin]

Everything is going digital, I hate to see the day when there are no longer books to read. I hope that day never comes.

[Linda2]

All those mags and newspapers are still around on paper, but some are folding each year.

[Robin]

I know, not enough subscriptions and people are not as interested since everything is pretty much online.

[Everyman]

SarahC wrote: "And you know Everyman may not take that one sitting down, Rochelle. I will be watching for his reply here. Brace yourself, Rochelle! "

Everyman is too mortified to retaliate.

[Linda2]

How can you retaliate to a book sale? Fill it with condensed books next year?