Victorians! discussion
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Conversations in the Parlor
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General chit-chat and information (part 2)
Sarah wrote: "There you go Jeannette, I knew you would start filling your time well once your daughter is off on her own path. Lit courses sound like a good idea and right up your alley of course. Chris, the..."
See, the 'Chris's' of the world do know some good little books, don't we?
Christopher wrote: "One of the most useful little books I own is Strunk & White's The Elements of Style (4th Edition). I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I make it a point to read/review it at least once a ..."An absolute gem of a book. I required my students (high school English) to use it. When I corrected papers if I found a violation of one of the S&W rules I simply noted the rule number in the margin of the paper and made them go check what the rule said and figure out how to fix the error.
Joy wrote: "For a laugh (and some good information!) I loved Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation."I agree that Eats, Shoots ... is amusing, but it has a number of errors within itself that makes it clear, to me at least, that it is primarily a recreational read and not a serious addition to the grammarian's library. For moreon that, check out this New Yorker article:
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004...
Grammar aside: how does the new MLA rule handle titles within an already italicized passage, as in the first paragraph above?
Everyman wrote: "I agree that Eats, Shoots ... is amusing, but it has a number of errors within itself that makes it clear, to me at least, that it is primarily a recreational read and not a serious addition to the grammarian's library. For moreon that, check out this New Yorker article..."That article really tore that book to shreds. Thanks for sharing Everyman!
I am certainly no grammarian; I am sadly ignorant of terms such as nonrestrictive clauses and correlative conjunctions. Apparently I need to go out and buy The Elements of Style and start studying. I really wish I had had teachers that emphasized the importance of proper grammar because I would love to know all of the rules and properly follow them. I will just have to teach myself instead :)
Everyman wrote: "Grammar aside: how does the new MLA rule handle titles within an already italicized passage, as in the first paragraph above?"I'm not sure what the rule is, but I have seen the title be in standard type if the rest is in italics. Such as:
Christopher wrote: "One of the most useful little books I own is Strunk & White's The Elements of Style (4th Edition). I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I make it a point to read/review it at least once a ..."
Joy wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Grammar aside: how does the new MLA rule handle titles within an already italicized passage, as in the first paragraph above?"I'm not sure what the rule is, but I have seen the t..."
I would say that you are correct, Joy. If we're not careful here, we shall become lost in the reply-to-reply-to-reply-to threads... ;-)
Round and round and round we go. Poor Mr. Bear becomes dizzy and falls over...[note-my wife calls me 'Mr. Bear':]
I have a dilemma and I need some help.I just received a $150 gift card to Barnes and Noble as a graduation present and I don't know whether to buy a Nook and see what all this e-reader hub-bub is about, or hold on to the gift card and have the luxury of buying 10-15 new books instead.
I have been interested in mobile e-readers, but I just love the whole process of going to a bookstore, buying a book, and reading a tangible book. However, this purchase wouldn't cost me any money, so I'm not really risking anything. I will always love to buy books and have them on a bookshelf so this won't replace books for me, it will just be more of a supplement. Anyone out there with a mobile e-reader who can let me know your experience?
Joy wrote: "I have a dilemma and I need some help.I just received a $150 gift card to Barnes and Noble as a graduation present and I don't know whether to buy a Nook and see what all this e-reader hub-bub is..."
Well, my dear, if you travel a lot, I say go for the e-reader. If you don't, I say go for the books.
Me, I am a book reader, and while I can see the advantage of the e-readers, I just ain't there yet. Even when I travel, I carry my books in my backpack. I am a marginalia scribbler, I am an underliner, I look up stuff on-line and write references and linkages in the book. You give me $150 and I'm on-line , or in the store, buying books! But that's me.
Books! Books! Books! I just love holding a book in my hand and putting little bits of paper in it to mark my favorite places. My husband frowns upon marking in books!
But, if you think you might want an e-reader, then this is a great excuse. Can you take it home for a test drive and then return it?
But, if you think you might want an e-reader, then this is a great excuse. Can you take it home for a test drive and then return it?
Chris - No, I'm not a traveler, but would like to be :) (for pleasure, not for business though). And I also like to mark passages, but I always do it with very small dots or brackets, so as not to mar the book too much. I actually keep notebooks for favorite quotes/passages that I find as well as one for ideas for further investigation. I think my reluctance to write more in books stems from reading so many library books when I was young. Even though I own the books, I still don't feel comfortable writing in them very much. I'm strange, I know. BUT, that is actually one thing that I like about the Nook: you can highlight and annotate content. So I would be free to make all of the notes I wanted, guilt-free! The big draw for me is that there are thousands of 'classics' available for free, and these are the books that I want to focus on reading right now. Plus, there is a system that allows you to "borrow" books from certain libraries that use a specific program (which mine does), so I could read many other free books.
Good idea Jeannette - I think I need to go to a store and play with it to see if I like it.
Joy, I belong to a group called Comfort Reads and they had a lengthy discussion of eReaders. You might find it useful.
eReaders
eReaders
This is a great site Anna--it got me through all my English courses!
And it is free, which is another reason why I am such a fan :)
Joy wrote: "And it is free, which is another reason why I am such a fan :)"It is a great site too! My daughter, the Ph.D. English candidate, turned me onto this site several years ago. It is in my "Favorites."
Thanks for the link, Anna. I will pass it along to my daughter! :)
Joy wrote: "Apparently I need to go out and buy The Elements of Style and start studying. I really wish I had had teachers that emphasized the importance of proper grammar because I would love to know all of the rules and properly follow them. I will just have to teach myself instead :) "I would suggest that you get a book on diagramming sentences and start learning diagramming. It's lots of fun, and it really teaches you grammar. I taught high school English many years ago (many, many), and taught diagramming; the students hated it at first, but once they got into it as a sort of game they really enjoyed the challenge, and it greatly improved their writing.
I don't know what books these days are good on diagramming, but Warriner's complete course used to be an excellent book. Not a substitute for Strunk and White, which is more about usage than grammar, but a good grammar book. I haven't seen an edition in more than 40 years, though, so don't know what it's like today.
Jeannette wrote: "Books! Books! Books! I just love holding a book in my hand and putting little bits of paper in it to mark my favorite places. My husband frowns upon marking in books!"I love books for reading at home, but as Christopher noted the e-readers are great if you travel much. I don't travel a lot any more, but when I do it's great to be able to take 3,000 books with me in no more space than a trade paperback. It's also a great way to get classic texts, including some that are out of print, free, since a great many out-of-copyright books are available free from various sites of booklovers who have converted them to the e-formats.
You have a valid point there, Everyman. I certainly couldn't carry that many books! And, I tried reading Udolpho on the computer, and I found it annoying having to scroll so far. Just as long a paper books don't go away....
Oh, an e-reader discussion! I bought a Kindle2 a year and a half ago as a birthday present for myself. Spent a few nights staying up super-late looking at e-books online, downloading free ones, etc. etc. At first I just loved it! I even bought a bigger purse so that I could carry it with me everywhere. Very quickly, however, I started to miss 'real' books and the turning of the pages. I traveled a lot for work recently, and took the K2 along; however, I took 'real' books, and bought more along the way, so even the traveling didn't make the K2 more appealing.
Here are some benefits, from my point of view:
- Completely easy and fast access to books (great if you finish a book in a series and want the next one now!)
- Loads of free books, most of them classics (as you mentioned)
- Easy on the wrists; it's easier to hold the e-reader than the actual full Udolpho book, guaranteed
That being said, I prefer books. That all being said, if someone was kind enough to give you that much on a B&N gift card, I saw splurge and get the e-reader. It's easy to periodically justify the cost of a new book. It's harder to justify the cost of an e-reader.
All just my humble opinion, of course! Either way, enjoy!
Paula - lovely to see you! I hope you are doing well :)I went ahead and got the Nook. I wouldn't have purchased with my own money, but I thought this would be a good time to splurge and try it out. My husband was interested in it, so between the two of us hopefully someone likes it! I was able to download quite a few classics and I even downloaded some collections of poetry, in hopes that I can learn to better appreciate the genre (Chris - because of you I got a collection of Dickinson. You like her work if I remember correctly...).
I haven't read more than a few pages on it yet because I am behind on my TBR books that I have in physical books as it is. I did, however, successfully check out a few digital library books already just to see how it worked-it is such a cool function!
Paula wrote: "Here are some benefits, from my point of view:- Completely easy and fast access to books (great if you finish a book in a series and want the next one now!)
- Loads of free books, most of them classics (as you mentioned)
- Easy on the wrists; it's easier to hold the e-reader than the actual full Udolpho book, guaranteed
That being said, I prefer books. "
I agree with all those points.
But one more important thing for the Kindle: scalable type. As my eyes age and gradually deteriorate, I have found, for just one example, that it is quite tiring to read my beloved Thomas Hardy novels in the beautiful 1920s MacMillan Wessex Novels matched set. I love those editions -- compact, nice feel, good size, BUT the paper is or has gotten off-white, the type is fairly light and a bit smaller than normal, and I can't read them for more than about fifteen minutes without my eyes giving out. So I'm reading Hardy now on my Kindle (most of his works can be downloaded free from Amazon and elsewhere) and can set the type size for a comfortable reading size and don't have to choose between not reading him any more, buying all new editions of his books, or waiting to get them on Interlibrary Loan since our library has only his major works.
For anybody who, like I, has had eye surgeries or is having eye problems, the Kindle is a blessing, especially since many of the books I want to read aren't available in large print editions.
This won't matter to those young'uns here, but the young'uns will eventually become not-so-young-uns, and then they'll understand!
While I qualify as a 'young-un' I understand completely, Everyman. After working on a computer all day, I've been known to increase the font size on my Kindle just to give my eyes a break.
Paula wrote: "While I qualify as a 'young-un' I understand completely, Everyman. After working on a computer all day, I've been known to increase the font size on my Kindle just to give my eyes a break."
Well, I'm getting into not-so-young-un stage, so I appreciate what you are saying, Everyman.
Well, I'm getting into not-so-young-un stage, so I appreciate what you are saying, Everyman.
While I can certainly relate to the advantages of the Kindle or Nook, I've not yet made the jump.I did buy all of the major Hardy novels (six of them) in the hardback 'Everyman's Library' editions, and I love them. I have just acquired Hardy's Complete Poems too. I now realize that Thomas Hardy has quite become one of my very favorite authors! I am convinced that I will be re-reading his novels relatively frequently for the rest of my life.
I'm still waiting for someone to return my Hardy book to the library......
Christopher wrote: "While I can certainly relate to the advantages of the Kindle or Nook, I've not yet made the jump.I did buy all of the major Hardy novels (six of them) in the hardback 'Everyman's Library' edition..."
How wonderful to find a new favorite!
Everyman wrote: "Joy wrote: "Apparently I need to go out and buy The Elements of Style and start studying. I really wish I had had teachers that emphasized the importance of proper grammar because I would love to k..."
I learned how to diagram sentences in high school. My wife and I write technical reports and letters. I can divide up sentences into short understandable parts, and connect ideas with conjunctives that convey their relationship to each other. That, and the "palmer Method' of legible handwriting, is the best thing that I learned in high school.
Christopher wrote: "While I can certainly relate to the advantages of the Kindle or Nook, I've not yet made the jump.I did buy all of the major Hardy novels (six of them) in the hardback 'Everyman's Library' edition..."
I bought a Kindle about a month ago and it is, without a doubt, the best toy I have ever had!
For anyone who is really into Victorian literature, it is the most wonderful resource because one can download many, many classics for free, really quickly.
In Sydney, the average book store has a small 'classics' section, containing the usual suspects-Vanity Fair, Can You Forgive Her, Moby Dick, P & P etc but if one wants to buy a lesser known work, by Mary Braddon, for example, many shops don't stock them. That is why I LOVE my Kindle so much-when one of my Goodreads friends suggests a book I can lay my hands on it fairly quickly.
I intend to use some of the money I save to buy hardback biographies and lovely art and gardening books.
The other day, I bought 161 (yep 161-not a misprint) of Dickens works, including all his novels, for $7 and it arrived in less than 30 seconds. Wow.
Wow, Sasha! That it a real motivation for buying a Kindle. And, I love gardening books!
I, too, learned to diagram sentences in high school. We had six weeks of it every year. (P.S. A good way to get people to hate George Eliot is to make them diagram sentences from Silas Marner. Just sayin'.)When I transferred to another school for my senior year, I was the only student in my English class who knew how to do it, though. (That came out after we got a diagramming assignment because our teacher was displeased with certain persistent grammatical errors. I started diagramming, and the rest of the class sat staring in confusion!)
Susanna wrote: "(P.S. A good way to get people to hate George Eliot is to make them diagram sentences from Silas Marner. Just sayin'.)"Eliot is better than Milton, or Donne, or Faulkner. Try diagramming one of those sometime!
Everyman wrote: "Susanna wrote: "(P.S. A good way to get people to hate George Eliot is to make them diagram sentences from Silas Marner. Just sayin'.)"Eliot is better than Milton, or Donne, or Faulkner. Try dia..."
Oh, dear God, no!
Susanna wrote: "I, too, learned to diagram sentences in high school. "Final exam for Grammar Diagramming 101:
Diagram the following:
Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste
Brought death into the World, and all our woe,
With loss of Eden, till one greater Man
Restore us, and regain the blissful seat,
Sing, Heavenly Muse, that, on the secret top
Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire
That shepherd who first taught the chosen seed
In the beginning how the heavens and earth
Rose out of Chaos: or, if Sion hill
Delight thee more, and Siloa's brook that flowed
Fast by the oracle of God, I thence
Invoke thy aid to my adventurous song,
That with no middle flight intends to soar
Above th' Aonian mount, while it pursues
Things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme.
Everyman wrote: "Susanna wrote: "I, too, learned to diagram sentences in high school. "Final exam for Grammar Diagramming 101:
Diagram the following:
Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidde..."
You have got to be kidding me! I'm of a mind that hurling one's self in front of a speeding train might be more fun... ;-)
Christopher wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Susanna wrote: "I, too, learned to diagram sentences in high school. "Final exam for Grammar Diagramming 101:
Diagram the following:
Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit..."
Some people like climbing dangerous mountains. Some people like bungee jumping. Some people like diagramming challenging sentences. No accounting for tastes!
Can anyone recommend any Victorian drama concerning the industrial revolution and the the railways, or science and religion? Thanks,
Lauren wrote: "Can anyone recommend any Victorian drama concerning the industrial revolution and the the railways, or science and religion? Thanks,"Charlotte Bronte's Shirley; Charles Dickens's Dombey and Son; and, of course, Elizabeth Gaskell's North and South.
Thanks Chris but I'm only really looking for drama. The problem is, there's an abundancy of prose on these topics but very little drama, from what I can tell.
Lauren wrote: "Thanks Chris but I'm only really looking for drama. The problem is, there's an abundancy of prose on these topics but very little drama, from what I can tell."Doh! My bad, I didn't read your original posting closely, did I? Yikes! I simply must become better at paying attention... My apologies, Lauren.
I do not like them, Sam I Am.Lauren: It's not a great era of British drama; I regret to say I can't think of anything.
Thanks anyway both of you, it isn't very important.
And Susanna, eh? :D
And Susanna, eh? :D
I have just attended the shortest religious (as opposed to civil) wedding I have ever attended. It was of a niece, on my wife's side of the family I hasten to say. I will say no more about her, since although she's not dead there is no point in saying anything bad about the living, either, unless one needs to. All that is needful to understand is that they were marrying after living together for eight years and having a child together.
But she wanted a "real" wedding. So while it wasn't a church wedding, being held under the trees on the lawn of another brother-in-law's house by the water (reminiscent of Chelsea's wedding, come to think of it), it had all the trimmings -- minister, Pachabel Canon to play her in, wedding dress and veil (though trimmed in red, not pure white), bridesmaids, flower girl, bridal bouquet, corsages on all the right people, etc. Chairs set up on two sides of a center aisle, groom's on left side, bride's on right. All the traditional stuff.
About a hundred people in attendance in addition to the wedding party.
So, when the time comes, she comes out of the house, walks to the back of the set of chairs and down the aisle on her father's arm, he hands her off to the groom. The minister offers a very short prayer, asks the groom whether he will this woman to be his lawful wedded wife, and the traditional language, groom says yes, asks the bride the same (without obey), she says yes, he gets the rings, tells the groom to put hers on saying "with this ring I thee wed," he does, minister has bride do the same, pronounces them man and wife, they kiss, and walk back down the aisle. That was it.
My wife happened to be watching her watch when the bride emerged from the house to see how late they were going to be. She checked it when the bride disappeared back into the house a married lady. Total elapsed time, including both walks down and up the aisle: seven minutes. All that palaver, people coming from all over the state and some from out of state, and that was it.
Has anybody else ever seen a religious wedding so short? I felt cheated -- for that I changed out of my traditional jeans and wore proper wedding attire? Pah!
Hahaha, Everyman :) That's priceless, particularly for someone (like me) who is in the midst of wedding planning. I'm wondering how much I'd be bothered by attending a short ceremony, considering my annoyance at a 2hr event a few years ago... I'm all for the couple doing whatever suits them - but 2 hrs of kneel, sit, stand, sit, kneel, stand, sit, was rough in the dress and heels!
Everyman said ...Total elapsed time, including both walks down and up the aisle: seven minutes. All that palaver, people coming from all over the state and some from out of state, and that was it.
Has anybody else ever seen a religious wedding so short? I felt cheated -- for that I changed out of my traditional jeans and wore proper wedding attire? Pah!
Presumably they had a party afterwards that took a little longer and also made an impression?
Has anybody else ever seen a religious wedding so short? I felt cheated -- for that I changed out of my traditional jeans and wore proper wedding attire? Pah!
Presumably they had a party afterwards that took a little longer and also made an impression?
If it'd been a Baptist wedding, there'd have been a lot of singing, going by the Baptist weddings I've been to.
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Victorians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Count of Monte Cristo (other topics)The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
The Count of Monte Cristo (other topics)
The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Anthony Trollope (other topics)Anthony Trollope (other topics)
Anthony Trollope (other topics)
Henry James (other topics)
Louisa May Alcott (other topics)
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Chris, the boss of my first "real" job -- I was a flunky and marketing/newsletter copywriter -- my boss gave me a copy of The Elements of Style, which I have always kept in my office. One of the most thoughtful gifts I have ever had -- and he made some kind of little joke with it -- I forget -- so I knew he gave it in a friendly way -- not in a "you can't write, so here's some help" kind of way!